Sick And Tired Of These?

[CandidStan]

I'm pretty much tired of all the threads about what your going to do with your Pandora. I mean I know its innocent to post a thread to get ideas on what others are using the hand held for, and maybe you might decide to adopt some of those principles. However, I'm sick of the arguments on this particular forum about which comes first. Neither comes first, Of course I'm speaking of the aspects of the Pandora which are Gaming and UMPC...ing. It seems that some of you are arguing pointlessly about what others are planning on doing with their Pandora, as if the person who started the argument had the power to control the receiving person's actions and stop them from using the Pandora for Gaming or stop them from using the Pandora to UMPC.

I however find that its more the UMPC infavor members who try and convince or sway the Pandora Gamers into, for whatever reason submission and stop them from gaming by "dominating them" in an internet argument.

I'm just posting this to see what your reaction is to those of you who argue what the Pandora should be used for.

Now I hope I'm not missing the point and making a dramatic overstatement about what is going on, but then again this is just my opinion and my $0.02.

INPUT REQUESTED.
andora1: andora2: andora1: andora2:

 

[bigtruck]

While I also think the argument is now entirely ridiculous, at one point it was valid. Long before I joined, when the design was still up in the air, the question of whether it was "more UMPC" or "more gaming handheld" was perfectly valid. When Craig or MWeston or whoever first asked "Hey, how would you guys feel about adding a keyboard?", it would have been a reasonable discussion. But seeing as how the design is now mostly finalized, it really doesn't matter anymore, though I suppose the Pandora's "true identity" could have had some impact in the recent analog issue (the solution reached seems acceptable to both 'factions', however).

The other possible reason I could think of is that people who want the Pandora for gaming mostly haven't really seen a lot of talk about homebrew or emulators compared to UMPC capabilities recently, and are worried the Pandora won't reach its full potential with regards to gaming. But that's not really something arguing about can change. Whatever developers are interested in is what they'll port/make. Trying to get an "official" answer as to whether the Pandora is a a "gaming handheld first" or "UMPC first" for that reason would be like trying to get an official answer from the president as to whether 24 or House is a better TV show.

 

[Cervante]

Find something elese to do with your time ?

 

[Esn]

I stated my opinion in this post.

 

[imbored]

Can we have a sticky that says, "Hardware Suggestions Go Here" just so there aren't so many what I would do if I were designing the Pandora threads and the resulting flame war

 

[agent_orange]

I do not understand the arguement at all. I will be using my Pandora for both identities, gaming on the go, watching media comfortably on the go, keeping my related stuff in check whether thats email, documents or even code, and then finally get to use it to hack into client office wireless networks :ninja:

 

[JakeK]

I will use it for both. But the argument that it is one forst than the other is stupid, it is just opinion and nothing more. It would be different if the devs said something like "we included more features for x purpose, thus it is more of x than y."

What I say to those people who argue it is one over the other, pull your head out of your arse; you don't decide which one it is more than the other.

 

[Kyo]

So... you made another thread? isn't that kind of hypocritical?

 

[javaJake]

However, I'm sick of the arguments on this particular forum about which comes first. Neither comes first, Of course I'm speaking of the aspects of the Pandora which are Gaming and UMPC...ing. It seems that some of you are arguing pointlessly about what others are planning on doing with their Pandora, as if the person who started the argument had the power to control the receiving person's actions and stop them from using the Pandora for Gaming or stop them from using the Pandora to UMPC.

I think your argument for "live and let live" is valid, a new thread is hardly going to fix it. I've already confronted the rather tense, inflammatory, or just plain obnoxious posts around here, but that's the way this forum is, unfortunately. I think you should take your own advice: "Live and let live."

If you must say something, the people to talk to are the moderators. They are the ones in control around here.

 

[doc5avage]

We don't like _ANYONE_ <--Should be stickied

 

[CandidStan]

However, I'm sick of the arguments on this particular forum about which comes first. Neither comes first, Of course I'm speaking of the aspects of the Pandora which are Gaming and UMPC...ing. It seems that some of you are arguing pointlessly about what others are planning on doing with their Pandora, as if the person who started the argument had the power to control the receiving person's actions and stop them from using the Pandora for Gaming or stop them from using the Pandora to UMPC.

I think your argument for "live and let live" is valid, a new thread is hardly going to fix it. I've already confronted the rather tense, inflammatory, or just plain obnoxious posts around here, but that's the way this forum is, unfortunately. I think you should take your own advice: "Live and let live."

If you must say something, the people to talk to are the moderators. They are the ones in control around here.


I just thought I would post about it to make those of you who care about the Pandora aware of what is going on. If you didn't already know that is. However I think this needed to be posted because We are not here to argue about what people are going to use the Pandora for; we are here to fuel the community.

Edit: I just took a look at Wikipedia (not the Pandora wiki) and right on the first line of its entry it says this.

The Pandora is an upcoming handheld game console, due to be released to the public in July or August of 2008. Designers have stated that it will be more powerful than any existing handheld video game console.[2]

So it is said that the Pandora is a game console. I don't really know if that settles the argument, however it gives gamers hope I think.

 

[aranson]

What I don't understand about this whole things is why people care so much about what others think. Sure, its going to be a kick-ass gaming platform. Sure its going to be a extremely competent UMPC. That means that the media freaks have one of the best devices on the market to do what they want. That also means that the handheld gamers/homebrew gamers have one of the best devices on the market. Throw in some decent apps, and the MID people have a device that should make them weep with joy. Why are these factions trying to trump each other by declaring that their own intended function more important than another? Just because to you, its an UMPC, doesn't mean that to me, it's not the Ultimate Game Machine.

Personally, being in the Navy, one of these would be kick-ass for long trips. It would pretty much do anything I can possibly think of that I want a device like this to do. Originally, I was looking into the Buglabs as a multipurpose, customizable gadget. The Pandora is this! With the Bluetooth, USB, and a little ingenuity (and I suspect much help from the community) you can turn this thing into nearly anything.

To me, like many others, its the fact that you can do whatever the hell you want with it that makes it so attractive.

Considering things like Hardware Design and Time Devoted to Developing (ie: Games vs Apps) That should be up to the Devs. I know that this is a "community based project" but in reality, its the devs who are doing all the work, spending the money, and taking the risks with this.

In conclusion, can't we all just accept that not everyone agrees with each other on points that really don't matter?

 

[CandidStan]

What I don't understand about this whole things is why people care so much about what others think. Sure, its going to be a kick-ass gaming platform. Sure its going to be a extremely competent UMPC. That means that the media freaks have one of the best devices on the market to do what they want. That also means that the handheld gamers/homebrew gamers have one of the best devices on the market. Throw in some decent apps, and the MID people have a device that should make them weep with joy. Why are these factions trying to trump each other by declaring that their own intended function more important than another? Just because to you, its an UMPC, doesn't mean that to me, it's not the Ultimate Game Machine.

Personally, being in the Navy, one of these would be kick-ass for long trips. It would pretty much do anything I can possibly think of that I want a device like this to do. Originally, I was looking into the Buglabs as a multipurpose, customizable gadget. The Pandora is this! With the Bluetooth, USB, and a little ingenuity (and I suspect much help from the community) you can turn this thing into nearly anything.

To me, like many others, its the fact that you can do whatever the hell you want with it that makes it so attractive.

Considering things like Hardware Design and Time Devoted to Developing (ie: Games vs Apps) That should be up to the Devs. I know that this is a "community based project" but in reality, its the devs who are doing all the work, spending the money, and taking the risks with this.

In conclusion, can't we all just accept that not everyone agrees with each other on points that really don't matter?

That's a very well put statement. It just gets annoying when, after all these people have been told this before. However they keep speaking out with these arguments so much, that you would think its almost like they are trying to brainwash people into believing their ideas. The reason I started this thread, was really to bring this to the attention of the people in charge of keeping the forum clean of things like this. The other reason I started this thread, was to alert you that when your typing up your well thought uber internet argument, you yourself, could have been deving for the Pandora, rather then making some stupid point no one really cares about. I've seen projects such as these go down because of forum politics; And I don't want the Pandora to die of such a fate.

 

[JerryG20]

What I don't understand about this whole things is why people care so much about what others think. Sure, its going to be a kick-ass gaming platform. Sure its going to be a extremely competent UMPC. That means that the media freaks have one of the best devices on the market to do what they want. That also means that the handheld gamers/homebrew gamers have one of the best devices on the market. Throw in some decent apps, and the MID people have a device that should make them weep with joy. Why are these factions trying to trump each other by declaring that their own intended function more important than another? Just because to you, its an UMPC, doesn't mean that to me, it's not the Ultimate Game Machine.

Personally, being in the Navy, one of these would be kick-ass for long trips. It would pretty much do anything I can possibly think of that I want a device like this to do. Originally, I was looking into the Buglabs as a multipurpose, customizable gadget. The Pandora is this! With the Bluetooth, USB, and a little ingenuity (and I suspect much help from the community) you can turn this thing into nearly anything.

To me, like many others, its the fact that you can do whatever the hell you want with it that makes it so attractive.

Considering things like Hardware Design and Time Devoted to Developing (ie: Games vs Apps) That should be up to the Devs. I know that this is a "community based project" but in reality, its the devs who are doing all the work, spending the money, and taking the risks with this.

In conclusion, can't we all just accept that not everyone agrees with each other on points that really don't matter?

You don't understand why people started having these arguments. People are establishing whether this is more a gaming device or a UMPC device because that's crucial when it comes to hardware modifications & design. When someone wanted to adjust gaming controls for UMPC functions, people had an outcry because people feel this is a gaming device first and foremost, so the gaming controls have highest priority. If none of these discussions ever came up, people wouldn't give a crap how others feel about it being a gaming handheld first or an UMPC first. However, because people keep coming in and suggest design adjustments and modifications, and people are thinking about the design of the Pandora 2 (which I think is ridiculous; Pandora 1 isn't even out, and people are already talking about designing Pandora 2. Who even says there will be a Pandora 2?).

So, with that in mind, establishing whether this device is a gaming device or UMPC first is relevant. I personally think it is obvious that it is a gaming device first and a UMPC second. Just look at where it was birthed, gp32x.de. In early development it was blatantly obvious that it was a gaming handheld. Also look at how much care/emphasis was placed on perfect gaming controls and everything first, when the Pandora's capabilities are showed off to the public when they want more media, developers show people how fast it runs GAMES (Squidge was there to talk about SNES, zodttd to talk about PSX, etc. Where were the UMPC developers to show it off? I think this is revealing that it is a gaming device first and a UMPC second).

Now, do understand that I'm not trying to discount UMPC functions. I will use the Pandora for both gaming and UMPC purposes. The UMPC aspect was and is marketed as an integral part of the Pandora. The developers themselves are excited about the UMPC aspects. However, I acknowledge that this device was and is a gaming handheld first and foremost.

 

[sindbad]

Please, oh, fascist moderators, lock this just because you can.

 

[Chip]

The Pandora already strikes an ideal balance between gaming and PC applications. No further modifications can (or will) be made, as any changes in one direction would adversely affect the other.

If the Pandora is too "Gamey" for you, then buy a UMPC. If the Pandora is too "UMPCish", then buy a GP2X or a PSP. If the Pandora as it is does not fit neatly into one of your categories, that is a failure of your categories, not of the design.

At this point, no argument in either direction is going to sway development at all. You may as well curse the sky for being blue.

 

[Prophet]

There is a slight misconception here...

Some of the arguments referred to weren't about how people should use Pandora - they were the result of people wanting to change the design into something less game-oriented. There is a difference, however subtle it may seem. And there is an attitude that accompanies that sort of thing, for example:

QUOTE
I guess all I can say is sorry I showed up 6 months too late to convince you of a better way. I really am.

That attitude was the impetus behind those recent argument threads. It wasn't about how anyone should use Pandora, but the attitude that Pandora was all wrong and needed to be changed into something more mainstream.

I don't think a single veteran around here wants to tell anyone how to use the Pandora. But speaking for myself, I know how Pandora evolved, and I appreciate how the final design came to be, and I want it to stay that way - it's precisely the gaming UMPC I've wanted for years. And I'm sure I'm not alone on that, to say the least, the devs included (afterall, it's the pocket Amiga emulator Craig has always wanted, eh ). I plan to use it as a pocket computer as well, and I don't at all mind if some people never play a single game on it. I doubt anyone does. But Pandora is more than just a regular UMPC, and its roots have always been in gaming, and that should be understood and accepted as well.

 

[chad78]

Where were the UMPC developers to show it off? I think this is revealing that it is a gaming device first and a UMPC second).
Not hanging out on a forum devoted to and named after 2 aging niche gaming consoles, that's for sure.

That's the major problem - if this discussion were taking place on EeePCUsers.com or internettablettalk.com or UMPCPortal.com - the devs would be talking about the different useful applications they will be writing - not what obscure 1970s video game console they will be emulating.

I can hear the pitchforks being gathered now, I know this forum is where the idea was kicked around and developed. But that's *why* the devs are working on gaming stuff. That's what they are into. That's what they know. That's what they just have to port - not write from scratch. Once this thing actually exists and is available for purchase - and more word gets out to Engadget, digg, etc. - when, (Sorry Prophet - meh :glare: ) - when the UMPC people *REALLY* start to show up - then you'll see the software develop for it.

There's already been at least one developer who is on the Dev forum (go figure!) but not on this one, who works on the Maemo platform (Nokia Internet Tablets). He has done some UMPC stuff. He's talking about porting the whole Maemo OS to Pandora. I'm seriously considering figuring out how to do that myself. I don't think I'd have to rewrite stuff - just recompile it. Honesty, I don't know how to do that yet - but I can read and follow directions. but my point is - once the Pandora is off the forum and in the real world... Let me put it this way "If you build it, they will come." I'm not claiming its vaporware by any means - I'm just saying it's not here yet. Once it is, then the coding will begin.

 

[AireTamStorm]

Which comes first is important to the design decisions of the software. If you design it as a UMPC, the OS behaves as such and not like a game console. I'd prefer the thing be treated like a UMPC first, because even if it is gaming will not be affected in an adverse way. We still get the same controls, the UI just ends up different.

 

[Prophet]

chad,

We all realize that. That's a GOOD THING. We all want all sorts of apps for the Pandora.

What we don't want (and obviously what won't happen) is for Pandora to be just another boring UMPC. The gaming-oriented design is what makes it truly unique, and anyone who's followed its development knows it was born from the minds of handheld gaming hobbyists and targeted for (initially) other handheld gaming hobbyists.

Apparently some non-gamers don't particularly like that (i.e. grndslm), and wish the game controls were moved or even dropped, in favor of something sleeker, or more mainstream for typical UMPC use. And that's where the rift starts. Everyone is welcome, including yourself of course, and other non-gaming users. However, they're going to have to accept that Pandora is something more than just another UMPC.

And honestly, maybe part of the problem is none of the existing UMPC devices are really satisfying that community's needs. And that's a shame. Rather than wanting to change Pandora into a more mainstream UMPC device (as grndslm wanted), I think that community will eventually be better served by some other device on the horizon. I don't know what it will be, or what company might make it, but eventually every niche will be met. In the meantime they can certainly use a Pandora, but Pandora is gaming oriented and may not fit their design ideals as a result. But Pandora fills a niche of its own, by design and intent. Hopefully that can be understood and respected.