Should I have received my final order eMail already?
- Thread starter EvilDragon
- Start date
Kev2442
Still French
I concur, @levi. AFAIK, what means trouble in emulation is not primarily clockspeed nor is it instruction sets (most platforms today are more capable in terms of hardware acceleration, or emulate quickly enough for the latter). If it was that simple, I guess your high-end smartphone could have a go at X360/PS3 emulation.
What matters most is architecture complexity :
For the best accuracy in emulation, you must synchronize the emulation of the different chips and time them well together, so that results come in the same order as they would on the real platform. This means constantly checking and so introduces massive overhead.
As an example, current emulators of choice like higan (formerly bsnes when it was dedicated to Super Nintendo) are cycle-accurate. This means you don't only execute the program's instructions, but model how the different parts of the machine behave together. If the CPU takes "this long" to retrieve data from RAM, thus slowing down the entire program, you must take it into account. While it can lead to dropped frames and input lag, it is truer to the actual console.
In the SNES case, the master clock is 21.47727 MHz for the NTSC version, while the CPU runs at only 3.58 MHz. Each chip is not on the same clockrate, so anything can happen between CPU cycles. And the SNES is known for having many hardware features, including graphics manipulation during frame rendering. If your simulation is not tight-knit, it can easily lead to missing or garbage graphics.
The more obscure or difficult hardware features are seldom used by most programmers, but well-thought and heavily optimised code can lead to this "I didn't know it could be done !" moment we all love, like Air Strike Patrol adding a shadow in the middle of the scanline being rendered ! Also you'll note that the SNES Mini fails to deliver on these features as most games play "well enough" and it would need much beefier hardware. Plus the original SNES used in the video is a 1CHIP revision, so even it is not displaying the effect in the same way.
So, you can understand why PS1 and later N64 games have been playable on PC when they were still on store shelves, and why the Saturn with its two CPUs and two GPUs had to wait years before an emulator showed more than just a few basic demos.
Now, imagine getting the monster that is the multi-threaded PlayStation 3 running more than decently, but soothe your nerves knowing these days games aren't as complex from a "hardware juggling" standpoint. Few of them aren't at least a little platform-agnostic and even fewer make use of undocumented hardware features. With current generations being based on generic technology, it's more a matter of figuring out the APIs called by the software than stitching textures together.
All of this explains why a Pong emulator simulating every single transistor can make your computer run to a crawl, while N64 games are at least "somewhat playable" since UltraHLE in 1999. While ZSNES and the like are classics and would be perfectly fine with most games, don't trust them to be a perfect representation of the 1990 experience. Have respect for the groundwork leading to current software, but please use the better modern alternatives when you can... or just do as I did and get the real deal and fall into madness trying to figure out how to plug it in today's TVs
What matters most is architecture complexity :
For the best accuracy in emulation, you must synchronize the emulation of the different chips and time them well together, so that results come in the same order as they would on the real platform. This means constantly checking and so introduces massive overhead.
As an example, current emulators of choice like higan (formerly bsnes when it was dedicated to Super Nintendo) are cycle-accurate. This means you don't only execute the program's instructions, but model how the different parts of the machine behave together. If the CPU takes "this long" to retrieve data from RAM, thus slowing down the entire program, you must take it into account. While it can lead to dropped frames and input lag, it is truer to the actual console.
In the SNES case, the master clock is 21.47727 MHz for the NTSC version, while the CPU runs at only 3.58 MHz. Each chip is not on the same clockrate, so anything can happen between CPU cycles. And the SNES is known for having many hardware features, including graphics manipulation during frame rendering. If your simulation is not tight-knit, it can easily lead to missing or garbage graphics.
The more obscure or difficult hardware features are seldom used by most programmers, but well-thought and heavily optimised code can lead to this "I didn't know it could be done !" moment we all love, like Air Strike Patrol adding a shadow in the middle of the scanline being rendered ! Also you'll note that the SNES Mini fails to deliver on these features as most games play "well enough" and it would need much beefier hardware. Plus the original SNES used in the video is a 1CHIP revision, so even it is not displaying the effect in the same way.
So, you can understand why PS1 and later N64 games have been playable on PC when they were still on store shelves, and why the Saturn with its two CPUs and two GPUs had to wait years before an emulator showed more than just a few basic demos.
Now, imagine getting the monster that is the multi-threaded PlayStation 3 running more than decently, but soothe your nerves knowing these days games aren't as complex from a "hardware juggling" standpoint. Few of them aren't at least a little platform-agnostic and even fewer make use of undocumented hardware features. With current generations being based on generic technology, it's more a matter of figuring out the APIs called by the software than stitching textures together.
All of this explains why a Pong emulator simulating every single transistor can make your computer run to a crawl, while N64 games are at least "somewhat playable" since UltraHLE in 1999. While ZSNES and the like are classics and would be perfectly fine with most games, don't trust them to be a perfect representation of the 1990 experience. Have respect for the groundwork leading to current software, but please use the better modern alternatives when you can... or just do as I did and get the real deal and fall into madness trying to figure out how to plug it in today's TVs
Last edited:
ant
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thread refresh rate intensifies
I can’t pay yet on steam because steam doesn’t take my password ^^
I can change it to everything I want but it’s doesn’t take it ^^
Edit: and I will pay for it because it’s cool how much effort someone put in this ^^ but maybe next weekend when I also try to fix my Xbox
I can change it to everything I want but it’s doesn’t take it ^^
Edit: and I will pay for it because it’s cool how much effort someone put in this ^^ but maybe next weekend when I also try to fix my Xbox
Kev2442
Still French
I don't know what you're tal
Ṋ̸̢̫͍͚̫͈̂͐̈́͑͑̒̆̋͊̌̓̀̀͋Ȩ̶͖͉̙̗͉̐̓̓̾͊́̎̎̏͝Ẅ̸̛͍̜̙̜͍̪́̋͝W̷̡̛̛͔̯̫̻͓̝̯̤̠͒̆̑̚̕͜ͅͅW̶̱̣̞̲̪̥͕͈͍̭͉͉̙̹̓̉̏̍́͒͜͜͜W̴̡̡̮̳̝̘̺̳̣̘̜̩̰̤̌̃̓̔͜͝W̴̜̩̜̝͕̹͚͗̄S̷̛̥̜͙̤̯̹̰̩̦͖̜͓̦̋͗̈́̌Ś̷̗̗̰̗̳̣̱̜͉̹̯́̉̽̕S̵͍̦̣͂́͂̈̐̀͑̓͌̎̉͘͠.̷̺͎͇̝̙̩͍̺̥̿̉̽̀͌̀͋̀́̅̊͒̽̈́̚̕.̵̜͒́̒͂̍͐̌́̍̆̈́̎̓̕͘͝.̷̧̡̨̛̪̗̠͉̺̰̤̰͊͋̽͋̓͊̿̔͊͗̍̽̋̍͋
king about.
JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
Don't worry guys, the Pyras are coming.EvilDragon Today at 12:50 PM
@JDTAY No, but we prepared most of the units in the few days, so they'll all ship this week
ClockworkCoder
Chaotic Neutral
Gah, I thought for a brief moment that it was *every* Pyra, but it's the next 25...
We are getting there though. Slowly.
JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
Oh, sorry, didn't mean to mislead you.
Yeah, I was just wondering when the next 25 would be out, so ED could get to the next batch of emails.
Yeah, I was just wondering when the next 25 would be out, so ED could get to the next batch of emails.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
That presumably was a quote from discord, because I can't find those words in this thread.
ClockworkCoder
Chaotic Neutral
Yes, it was.
- Joined
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- 11,418
ClockworkCoder
Chaotic Neutral
Context is king.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Yes, I assume he meant last in the sense of latest rather than in the sense of final, because assuming the latter wouldn't make any sense yet.
Wonderful!
Did a little treat for all you guys
Eight Bit
Hardcore Member
Where are we after 1,5 month?
I hoped it would have gone faster, like 25 per week..
Or are there production problems?
I hoped it would have gone faster, like 25 per week..
Or are there production problems?
The biggest problem is Covid-19.
My main employee is at home since December 15th (as she has kids and the schools / kindergartens are closed) which means I'm missing 5 hours of manpower each day.
She handles taxes, shipping, etc. - and I need to do that myself. As it's the end of the year, I have to wrap up the taxes for the full year as well, otherwise I have to pay a fine.
On the other hand there are a lot of small modifications that have to be done to the Pyra case. These modifications have already been reported back to the case production company (just writing the documents to explain all this needed 6 full hours in its own) and therefore, while I have some helpers with the assembly, I still have to do a lot by myself.
Last week I only managed to assemble Pyras for 6 hours or so. 15 are now fully finished (I just need to flash them).
So there are two limiting factors slowing things down a lot:
1. Missing man-power due to lockdown
2. A lot of manual labour needed with the cases I currently use
If I could assemble Pyras the whole day, we would've finished the first batch of 500 by now, probably.
These two issues causing the slowdown will be resolved. The moulds are already being tweaked and the lockdown hopefully won't last forever as well.
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