Separate pads for the space key?

[fahrstuhl]

Why not have two solder jumpers:

One normally closed  so that the two spacebar buttons are connected in parallel

One normally open so that the the second button is wired to a different input line in whatever interprets keyboard input.

That's what I meant To change the behavior you open the first and close the second.

 

[levi]

Not that it alters anything much, but you'd be better off with just traces to cut rather than any solder setup.  Solder can be a pain to get rid off, but if the accessory board is just double sided like it's planned to be, there's nothing to cutting a trace, and once cut it stays cut.  You can cut surface traces on more complex boards, and I've cut them on four layer boards in the past, but you have to be a lot more careful there.

Reconnecting a cut trace is not great task either, though I suppose the solder bump might interfere with the keymat if you ever went back to two separate keys again if it wasn't designed for it.  But then if it's something designed to be swapped frequently, you should really aim for a proper jumper, probably on the other side of the board.

 

[comradekingu]

I dont understand the rationale for having it be one button.

On a traditional keyboard it's because you might hit the key with either your left or right thumb, and unless you're touch-typing your hand could be in a variety of positions when you hit it. It's the most commonly used key when typing, so making is easily accessible is important.

On the Pandora it's good because it enables you to see quickly where the space bar is, the larger button is easier to find by touch alone, and because it's called the space bar, so it should damn well be a bar shape!

I contemplated that might be why, but its only semi-useful, because you can almost type something without having to look anyway to figure out where return and backspace and the ,. are.

Enter and backspace arent in return and backspace shapes, nor in their usual positions, except for maybe enter.

Also the labeling is strange because on the pandora it says "Space"  "Enter"  and then backspace is "←"

To make it more visually unison, seperate the buttons,

Space          "|____|"  the way it is on every other minimal keyboard

Enter           " ↲  "

Backspace   " ←    "

tab              "   |←

                        →|  "

Shift              "  ⇧  "

caps              " dont need"  Very bad on pandora because its so small, if one accidentally turns it on and dont see it to turn it off thats a usability mishap.

Brightness up " ☼"

Brightness down"   "☀"

on/off                 "

" or "

"

In my opinion it isnt intuitive to have a long spacebar you cant press on the other side, a space is on a regular keyboard long because its used with both hands. I havent seen anyone complain about space on a t9 keyboard unless it was on 1 rather than on 0.

 

[sswam]

you can't touch type on the tiny keyboard anyway so it doesn't really matter, in my opinion

 

[comradekingu]

To the ability one is even able to touch type, that means hitting size 1 buttons anyway.

A comparison to a 10 finger both hands desktop layout doesnt make sense, because you hit space with both hands then, and the length is given by how the position of the hands move.

 

[DAP]

On the Pandora/pyra, you hid ALL the keys with your thumbs. There is no need for the space key to be bigger.

 

[God Ginrai]

Enter and backspace arent in return and backspace shapes, nor in their usual positions, except for maybe enter.

 And? Space is used a whole lot more than the two of those keys combined.

In my opinion it isnt intuitive to have a long spacebar you cant press on the other side, a space is on a regular keyboard long because its used with both hands. I havent seen anyone complain about space on a t9 keyboard unless it was on 1 rather than on 0.

 I always hit spacebar with my right hand, even on a real keyboard. I don't see this as being unintuitive.

you can't touch type on the tiny keyboard anyway so it doesn't really matter, in my opinion

 I rarely have to look at my Pandora keyboard, and pretty much never have to look at my Pre 3 keyboard when I'm typing. You can certainly touch-type on tiny keyboards. Also of note is that the space key on my Pre 3 is also double-width.

On the Pandora/pyra, you hid ALL the keys with your thumbs. There is no need for the space key to be bigger.

This comment makes no sense.

-God Ginrai

 

[comradekingu]

Starting with the last first, actually it does. The size of one key is thumbsized, and space is always used with the right hand (thumb)

Being able to visually distinguish it is a intuitive bonus that ends as soon as you try to do anything useful, which is when you have to look up keys anyhow, if only for as long as it takes to find out that space is somewhere within logical limits.

If you never used space with your right hand on a regular keyboard (desktop type) then i dont think you arent as effective as could be. I got two ground down spots on mine, and its both left and right, i just know that i dont want to re-learn that, but on the pandora or pyra the lesson doesnt translate. Its a different thing anyhow.

Being able to touch type or not isnt the point, to the point it is even possible it means learning 1 size thumb buttons by muscle memory, which is exactly how space will be used in a 1 size setup.

The whole idea of using space by pressing the other part of the space and the visual nature of a not symmetrical longspace isnt a seller. I dont even know if its possible. I looked it up in the hacker manual, and it made no sense to me.  Meanwhile you have to get into what is hardwired to what, mapped where, and how.

The keymat isnt backwards compatible, so its essentially a free extra button for little to no effort. The button and case matrix is just a replica of what the other buttons are, (if its all 1 size)

Being able to see the space as a space is an upside, but it doesnt do anything that has systemic value. Ruining symmetry has an adverse effect.  What is the real upside to having it be one button?

 

[levi]

My thumb's over twenty millimetes long, and isn't a rectangle about three times as wide as it is tall, dunno about yours.

 

[DAP]

Being able to visually distinguish it is a intuitive bonus...

(sorry, taking this quote out of context and making it look like you were arguing for the other side...)

We can easily make it visually distinguishable by making it a different color, (how about day glow yellow?) we don't need to make it double wide for that.

If we need to be able to feel the difference, we can make it a different texture.

I'd actually like to have bumps on the F and J keys (QWERTY keymap positions) so I have reference points while touch typing like most full sized keyboards do.

 

[Binky]

How about having main letter keys slightly concave and the rest convex? or Vice-versa?

 

[comradekingu]

On the http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/15275-unofficial-keyboard-layoutsapril-27th-2014/ all the later suggestions use white keys for A-Z adorned by a black frame of other keys.

I think when you hold it with both hands you already get a sense of center/where you are, so i dont think F and J bumps are needed. Its more difficult to produce, and also it might rub against the screen.

 

[levi]

I've never spent the time to learn to touch-type - that is I don't look at a PC keyboard when I type, but I use the letters that pop up on screen rather than they F and J keyboard bumps. But I don't see why they shouldn't have bumps for those people that do use them to locate keys, even if there's no space to use them as the traditional home keys, especially if as on the Pandora, the screen will be behind the screen bezel, so there is a little more space towards the center of the keyboard before anything clashes than there is at the edges.


Also, I'd tend to be against white keys as they need a lot more cleaning than black ones, and have more of a tendency to take a stain.

 

[comradekingu]

Give one to a blind person and see how it fares, or imagine yourself to be blind in designing one.

For example an F row that isnt a row, but instead 10+ and then 2 down and to the right, doesnt make sense.

 

[levi]

'F row'? Oh, you mean the function keys? Yes, a blind or partially sighted person would have to spend a while learning the keyboard layout of either the Pandora or the Pyra, but once they have surely home key nodules help them locate the right keys to start with?

 

[TrashyMG]

'F row'? Oh, you mean the function keys?

I know right!, things never been the same since they dropped the P in the function keys

Spoiler

 

[thatgui]

I know right!, things never been the same since they dropped the P in the function keys

Spoiler

Sorry, for derailing this: but why are the two keys left and right of the keyboard so akwardly shaped ?

 

[rygD]

I am guessing it is for the same reason the caps lock key on most keyboards is shaped like that.

Also, I was just looking at those yesterday, but decided to place an order with Unicomp.  I wanted something a little custom, with USB.

 

[comradekingu]

thatgui because they arent springloaded keys. If you were to hit them on the side it would wobble the key rather than to hit it from centre.

On AT and XT style keyboards it used to be the G-row, which was to the left. By the F-row i mean F1 F2 F3 etc

It was a little jab at some of the other keyboard designs, which to me seem like they were done by a blind person for someone who isnt blind.

 

[God Ginrai]

I'd actually like to have bumps on the F and J keys (QWERTY keymap positions) so I have reference points while touch typing like most full sized keyboards do.

I support this. Maybe it would be better to do what Binky suggested, but only for the F and J keys. make those concave, and the rest convex. It would still be as easy to tell as key bumps, but it also would feel nicer for users while typing. (On a real keyboard, you have enough area on the key that you can have the bumps out of the way of where they are typing, but we don't have that luxury on small keys like on the Pyra)

-God Ginrai