Separate pads for the space key?

[fahrstuhl]

Hi,

Would it be possible to have separate (or maybe separable by scratching a connection?) contact pads for the space key on the pcb so that you could cut the space key in half and have one more key on your Pyra keyboard? I think I'd like another key more than the wider space key.

I'm not sure if this would mess with the general functionality of the space key, I guess it depends on how the driver for the Pyra keyboard works. Maybe a software switch in the driver to change between the pads sending the same and sending a different keycode?

 

[God Ginrai]

This is already the case. This is how it was on the Pandora, and judging from the PCB images, it appears to still be the same on the Pyra. As for how the signals are read, I don't know that part.

-God Ginrai

 

[WizardStan]

This is how it was on the Pandora

As far as I know, while there are two physical pads, they are both wired together in the grid so that they would be treated as a single button when either (or both) are pressed. Keeping them completely separate introduces problems.

 

[FaeMinx]

Our of curiosity... what do you need 1 more button for?

=~. O =

 

[God Ginrai]

Our of curiosity... what do you need 1 more button for?

=~. O =

Probably dvorak. I've seen a bunch of naysayers for the double-width spacebar who cite dvorak as their reason.

-God Ginrai

 

[fahrstuhl]

This is how it was on the Pandora

As far as I know, while there are two physical pads, they are both wired together in the grid so that they would be treated as a single button when either (or both) are pressed. Keeping them completely separate introduces problems.

Exactly, according to the hackers manual.

Ghosting of the keys above the space key might be a problem and I don't know how Linux reacts to getting the same keycode twice. (I should test that…)

Sending the same keycode twice or mapping space to two different keycodes shouldn't be necessary though, I think you could catch that in the keyboard "firmware" (Are the keyboard rows and columns connected directly to the GPIOs of the SoC or is there a controller in between? The first one sounds a bit wasteful.)

On the other hand, I don't know how the Pyra's keyboard firmware works, so maybe it's way harder than I imagine. I only know USB keyboard controllers and it should be easy to implement there.

Our of curiosity... what do you need 1 more button for?


=~. O =

Probably dvorak. I've seen a bunch of naysayers for the double-width spacebar who cite dvorak as their reason.

Well, actually the German equivalent called Neo but yes. With just this one additional button in the bottom row it would be perfect

Yeah, in the end it might be more trouble than it's worth with only about two users actually needing this additional button. I thought it would be cooler to be able to "just" enable it instead of having to hack another button onto the Pyra or going back to qwertz/qwerty.

 

[fahrstuhl]

I tried to make a Neo layout for the keyboard of the Pyra with an additional button instead of the double width space key:

Spoiler

The wide button would screw up the placement of the [ . ] and [ J ] keys.

 

[levi]

Linux will react the same as any key pressed twice, but I don't see the difference between two pads wired together and two separate pads that are combined by software here. If you rollover between the two the driver will need to know that it's a rollover to the same keycode. If you disconnect both pads in between the transfer, it'll count as two spaces whether they're wired together or not.


I think it'd be a nice (slightly hidden) feature to have to two pads wired separately, so that you could swap the keymat and key an extra key, but I won't be buying such a keymat myself, so I have even less of an idea whether it's worth manufacturing alternative keymats, and I'm not going to be writing the driver, so I don't want to push for this idea.

 

[fahrstuhl]

I thought I could cut the space key in half and cut out a small grove to make it feel and act like two separate keys. Yes, it's a bit hacky but it would work, whereas it'd be basically impossible without separate pads.

On one hand I don't want the Pyra team to have a headache trying to implement such a niche feature, on the other hand I really like the idea of having an even better representation of the Neo layout on my Pyra.

Maybe if you had the pads connected by a soldered connection which you could desolder if needed to get a separate pad with the keycode already in the driver, just unused until you separate the pads?

 

[comradekingu]

Our of curiosity... what do you need 1 more button for?


=~. O =

Probably dvorak. I've seen a bunch of naysayers for the double-width spacebar who cite dvorak as their reason.

-God Ginrai

Visual balance, easier rubber mat production, also international layout.

 

[God Ginrai]

Visual balance, easier rubber mat production, also international layout.

I don't know what you are trying to accomplish here. I wasn't suggesting dvorak was the only reason, but pointing out that he likely wanted this solution for a dvorak layout because that is the most common reason for which the extra button has been requested.

-God Ginrai

 

[comradekingu]

I dont understand the rationale for having it be one button.

 

[God Ginrai]

That's fine if you don't understand it. But this topic is not petitioning EvilDragon to make 2 separate buttons on the keymat. It's petitioning him to wire it in a way so that Fahrstuhl can split the space key on his own.

-God Ginrai

 

[comradekingu]

Im not petitioning, im asking why that is the case, because it doesnt make sense to me. If that isnt understood i dont see why any solution is necessarily better.

 

[levi]

I dont understand the rationale for having it be one button.

On a traditional keyboard it's because you might hit the key with either your left or right thumb, and unless you're touch-typing your hand could be in a variety of positions when you hit it. It's the most commonly used key when typing, so making is easily accessible is important.

On the Pandora it's good because it enables you to see quickly where the space bar is, the larger button is easier to find by touch alone, and because it's called the space bar, so it should damn well be a bar shape!

 

[DAP]

In order to get the correct relative positions of the keys in a Dvorak keymap on Pyra, the keys must go where shown in the attached image.

Well, Damn! I'm not allowed to add attachements.

I guess I'll just have to draw it.


---------------------------------------------
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 9 | |
-------------------------------------------------
| | ' | , | . | P | Y | F | G | C | R | L |ret|
-------------------------------------------------
| | A | O | E | U | I | D | H | T | N | S |
-------------------------------------------------
| | | ; | Q | J | K | X | B | M | W V | Z |
-------------------------------------------------

Note that W and V are where the space bar currently is.

The letters could be shifted left by one, screwing up their relative positions to the numbers, but than only shifts the problem to V and Z.

changing reletive positions of the charactors would make it not a Dvorak key map.

 

[TrashyMG]

My issue is for every one person complaining about accommodating a Dvorak key map there are thirty people complaining that the space button wasn't at least two keys in length.

 

[Kiga]

If I'd use a dvorak layout I would use the space button as the dvorak key and use a shoulder button as space.

 

[fahrstuhl]

My issue is for every one person complaining about accommodating a Dvorak key map there are thirty people complaining that the space button wasn't at least two keys in length.

I don't want to change the shape of the space key for everyone, I want to be able to change it myself, which I can't if the pads are wired together without an option to separate them.

I think the option to separate them by desoldering a connection and soldering a new one while having an unused keycode in the driver isn't too much work on the manufacturers side. (Is it?)

It'd be like the unused but available IO pads on the Pandora mainboard. (Hopefully the Pyra has those, too )

 

[Binky]

Why not have two solder jumpers:

One normally closed  so that the two spacebar buttons are connected in parallel

One normally open so that the the second button is wired to a different input line in whatever interprets keyboard input.