Quick nub update (2010-09-17)

[matzesu]

OK, so meybe tomorow,

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, just checked the eMails and got a new update.


Getting way better - the original nubs teared under 100K usage while the current ones are in the 300K range.


They aim for 500K, which should be long enough for any game junkie.


So not yet fully there, but seeing improvement is a very good thing, and they already are 3 - 5 times more robust.

 

[matzesu]

Thats Cool, thanks, so how long are 500k of usage?, The Pandora should be aple to survive 10 Yeahrs of exesive gaming, is this realistik?... Otherwise i would play more Supernintendo than n64 on it.. :lol: no problem...

 

[daswichtel]

Thats Cool, thanks, so how long are 500k of usage?, The Pandora should be aple to survive 10 Yeahrs of exesive gaming, is this realistik?... Otherwise i would play more Supernintendo than n64 on it.. :lol: no problem...

ok some numberfiddling


assuming you are using the nubs about 1 times a second:


360*1 = 360 per hour


500k/360 = 1389h permanent use...


or 57,87 days permanent use


lets think about 2h playtime EVERY day


thats about 57,87*(24/2) = 694,44 days intensive gaming


i dont really think about playing every day so lets say ill play 300 days a year 2h


thats (694,44*365)/300 = 844,9 days


thats about 2,3 years of VERY intensive gaming.


for people like me ill guess its far beyond 6-7 years.


that doesnt mean the nubs are down with usenumber 500001.


many perhapses and guesses but i would say its a realistic estimation.


regards

 

[matzesu]

Aha, alles Klar, Thanks for the Info :lol:


I think, that the most peaple would use both: The Nubs, or the Dpad, so it should survive way longer...

 

[daswichtel]

Aha, alles Klar, Thanks for the Info :lol:


I think, that the most peaple would use both: The Nubs, or the Dpad, so it should survive way longer...

signed.


should be very hard to use both at the same time :-D

 

[matzesu]

The Testing Cirkle isnt end yet, so, meybe, if they survive 300.000 Cirkles, they can meybe more..,


Meybe tomorow whe have more Updates..


They are alot of games, they need only the DPAD, like all from the Snes, nes, gameboy amiga, megadrive, mastersystem, etc, only a hand full emus needs the nubs: Playstation, N64, and the Shooters..


and they need for using as mouse..


next yeahr i have the Nintendo 3DS, so they is no need to use the Pandora at 24 Hours every day..

 

[Lockenlord]

many perhapses and guesses but i would say its a realistic estimation.


regards

Well, if it wasn't for the one digit you missed maybe. An hour has sixty minutes, sixty seconds each which is 3600 seconds an hour and thus only approximately 5.8 days of straight excessive gaming. Even if the nubs would last six years of average usage, I'd still consider it too short of a lifespan. We're talking about the pandora after all, those nubs better survive the upcoming decade.

 

[daswichtel]

Well, if it wasn't for the one digit you missed maybe. An hour has sixty minutes, sixty seconds each which is 3600 seconds an hour and thus only approximately 5.8 days of straight excessive gaming. Even if the nubs would last six years of average usage, I'd still consider it too short of a lifespan. We're talking about the pandora after all, those nubs better survive the upcoming decade.

oh man your so right :-D


think ive to go to bed... will correct it tomorrow...


by that way 1/s realistic? doesnt feel right

 

[may88]

Well, just checked the eMails and got a new update.


Getting way better - the original nubs teared under 100K usage while the current ones are in the 300K range.


They aim for 500K, which should be long enough for any game junkie.


So not yet fully there, but seeing improvement is a very good thing, and they already are 3 - 5 times more robust.

So another round of producing a new prototype and further testing.


Do they still have ideas for improvements?


Guess this will take another two weeks.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, there are some nice calculations


The testing is a stress test - so fully moving hard into various directions.


While playing, you don't always move it hard to different directions, an analogue stick is there to do small movements, too, and they are not as stressful as full movements.


Also, slower movements don't stress it as much as fast and hard movements.


I think with normal gaming, you have about 1 move every 10 seconds (depending on the game, compared to full hard movements).


Racing games is even less, since you almost never move hard and in a full direction. Same goes for Quake 3, mouse movements or other games - you rarely do hard movements with analogue controls.


For those kind of games, you usually use a DPad.


So, going back to our maths:


If each 10 seconds would compare to a full, hard movement and we will get 500.000 movements, that's about 5.000.000 seconds of gameplay (or 83333 minutes or 1388 hours).


If you think that's not much: If you would play 4 hours per day ONLY with the nubs, that would be 350 days. However, nobody plays 4 hours per day with only the nubs, I guess hardcore gamer will play about 12 hours per week with the nubs (if he plays a lot), so that would be about 115 weeks... and the average player probably only plays 6 hours per week, so that would be 230 weeks (that would be over four years of playing!)


While those calculations always sound like it's not much, it actually is, because in reality, nobody plays as much as we all think


Think about Ocarina of Time: One playthrough is about 30 hours. So with 1388 hours, you could play more than 45 times through the whole game... enjoy


Another thing not to forget: the 500k we're aiming for is the MINIMUM that it should reach. Some might even reach double the lifetime.


It's very hard to do proper calculations here though: Some gamers stress the nubs more than others do... but I guess this is a good rough estimation. A few years with intensive playing should be in for you.


And if you only use it as mouse, it should last WAY longer.

 

[chris_c]

If you're talking *stress* testing - isn't this HARD against one edge to the next?


Is it not quite possible that you could be playing a whole session without moving the nub HARD against the stops?

 

[EvilDragon]

So another round of producing a new prototype and further testing.


Do they still have ideas for improvements?

Well, we had two problems: The tolerance issue (which lead to those weird jumping nubs which wouldn't caliubrate properly) which has already been solved and the second one where some nubs teared (because the material was not too reliable).


They are now working on the second one, and the main change is the mixture of the rubber material.

Guess this will take another two weeks.

Not necessarily. The next samples are already in production, and since they basically only change the material not the mould, the material could be here by the end of the week (and then testing immediately starts again).

 

[EvilDragon]

If you're talking *stress* testing - isn't this HARD against one edge to the next?


Is it not quite possible that you could be playing a whole session without moving the nub HARD against the stops?

Yep, hard from one edge to the next one.


As said: Depending on the games, you do that more often or seldom.


With Zelda or racing games for example, you don't do it that often, with other games where quick movements are needed it will happen more often.


However, an analogue control ALWAYS wears out, even if you only do small movements. But it takes WAY longer for it to wear out, so we're doing a lot of guesstimations here

 

[Prometheus]

ED, can I ask a quick question while I think of it, please? (I hope you don't mind. )


Do the calculations about roughly how long the nubs will last also apply to the current lot (the ones that were supposed to be fully tested before being soldered onto the boards) on the recent Pandoras?

 

[EvilDragon]

ED, can I ask a quick question while I think of it, please? (I hope you don't mind. )


Do the calculations about roughly how long the nubs will last also apply to the current lot (the ones that were supposed to be fully tested before being soldered onto the boards) on the recent Pandoras?

They might live as long, but they don't have to. It's a minimum value ALL tested ones have to survive, of course there will also be some that last way longer.

 

[Prometheus]

Right, gotcha. Thanks.

 

[pem_69]

Here's something that's been bugging me for a while.


You ordered the nubs. Something happened to the shipment/manufacture (I forget what), and you had to order/pay/wait for them all again.


Surely somewhere in that mess they bothered to test them, and make sure they were up to spec?


But it seems not, since the first nubs were failing all over the place, and we're now on the fourth(?) revision since the earlier screw-up, and they're still not up to their standards?


Either they didn't test them (which is pathetic), their standards were *FAAR* too low (why raise them quite so high, now), or something else (Oh, you wanted these to work - we thought they were going to be decorative!).


Could you shed some light here? Much obliged.

 

[chris_c]

However, an analogue control ALWAYS wears out, even if you only do small movements. But it takes WAY longer for it to wear out, so we're doing a lot of guesstimations here

I assume that's because you're dragging a contact across a carbon track (inside a pot per axis)


I can't help but wonder if you could do the same with a couple of craftily arranged tiny magnets and a few hall sensors - I shall have to dive through my box of junk components !

 

[Stephane Hockenhull]

I assume that's because you're dragging a contact across a carbon track (inside a pot per axis)


I can't help but wonder if you could do the same with a couple of craftily arranged tiny magnets and a few hall sensors - I shall have to dive through my box of junk components !

or two metal plates acting as a capacitor: very durable but tolerance problems could be much worse with this setup.


edit: also, it could be very sensitive to noise and finger proximity might affect readings BUT very durable