Yuglooc
Go Go Igo!
I think he ment, sony is a big company, one unit aint a big loss for them... Not that it justifys, but's an explanation.
also, didnt answer my question lubidog^^
also, didnt answer my question lubidog^^
Psp Emu
- Thread starter headsh0tshurt
- Start date
OrR
Corporate games suck.
Don't pirate big name games. You don't need to, even if you've got no money for them. Why? You don't need to play that crap. Go to gametunnel.com , get yourself some awesome Indie games for 15$. But if you pirate any of those I'll come over to you personally to murder you.
hypothetical situation-
Rare used to make games I loved. Rare still make games I would like to play.
Now should I let the fact that Microsoft (a company I do not want to financially support in any way) aggresively took over Rare stop me from enjoying the art?
No, I should download the game.
If my actions stop Rare from making games in the future, so what? I would never buy them anyway. So I would lose the knowledge that Rare games exist and make money for a company I dislike even though I could not play them. Microsoft has essentially lost nothing because I would never buy the game anyway.
Piracy justified!
When it comes to massive transnational corporations who exploit their markets, labour, national governments, do immesurable damage to the environment without paying for it, bully smaller independent companies out of business and are driven by nothing but greed, it is not sufficient to say "thou shalt not steal" and expect the masses to obey in fear of being expelled to hell.
Rare used to make games I loved. Rare still make games I would like to play.
Now should I let the fact that Microsoft (a company I do not want to financially support in any way) aggresively took over Rare stop me from enjoying the art?
No, I should download the game.
If my actions stop Rare from making games in the future, so what? I would never buy them anyway. So I would lose the knowledge that Rare games exist and make money for a company I dislike even though I could not play them. Microsoft has essentially lost nothing because I would never buy the game anyway.
Piracy justified!
When it comes to massive transnational corporations who exploit their markets, labour, national governments, do immesurable damage to the environment without paying for it, bully smaller independent companies out of business and are driven by nothing but greed, it is not sufficient to say "thou shalt not steal" and expect the masses to obey in fear of being expelled to hell.
iignotus
The one and only
Hmm, now that I think of it, it wasn't Mystic Quest II lol, it was Final Fantasy Legend II for the Gameboy (that's why I said considering the medium, I had forgotten which was which).
I'm pretty sure the general idea is that you're paying for the enjoyment you get out of them game. Even if you never buy from them again, if you get any enjoyment from downloading one of their products, you do in fact owe them money based on their rationale.
Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
Companies procecute based on the assumed profit they would have made off of you if the ability to pirate didn't exist. They feel that because you are in posession of their IP that you should have purchased it. they make no consession for the concept of "testing" or "Preview before purchase" but this is becuase they're biased and it's in their best interest to thnk this way. I'm of the mind than half the time someone takes somthing off the net they were never intending to buy it anyway. (ie. if I downloaded a song from the internet and never bought the CD, it's because I was never going to buy the CD that song was on anyway. In effect I am not a fan stealing their music I'm jsut some guy who has something that I just happened upon. They were never going to get my money even if pirating didn't exist unless I was foolish enough to blow 16 bucks for one song.)
I'll admit it, my morals are gray.
Now, I don't condone the taking of a game that can be bought just because you want it but I also have no problem with getting something for nothing if it can be done when I have no money. I'm not suggesting actively going out and taking something but if you come across the means to get it that's up to you to decide to take it or not. That is morality; when presented with the oportunity to take something you want the decision to do or not to. Sometimes I wont, sometimes even after I've gotten something for free I'll go out and buy the official version if I feel my money was earned, the only reason I go into a grey area is when I feel my money was not earned. To buy a CD for 16 bucks and learn there's only one song worth listening to is the same as a company saying they should be able to sue me for having something I would never have bought from them. It's gray.
I've downloaded GBA roms and played them when the opportunity presented itself. But that's not to say I wont attempt to buy some of these games when I'm less broke. Gunstar Superheroes? I'm sure as hell buying it. GTA:LCS? fuck yeah. These games will be worth their price and I've been out of work for 3 years. But to search these games out online specifically for the purpose of NOT paying for them ever? that feels wrong to me. A person with this mentality isnt a fan of games so much as they are a fan of anarchy and just taking what they want.
All that said this thread wasnt about the ablity to steal these games, the guy simply asked a dumb question about something that could never possibly happen with current technology. Yeah at some point in the future maybe 20 years from now when those systems a far from being commercially viable we'll have a handheld that can emulate a Xbox, etc. but it's simply not a logicial thing to ask right now, and he wasn't aware of that.
I'll admit it, my morals are gray.
Now, I don't condone the taking of a game that can be bought just because you want it but I also have no problem with getting something for nothing if it can be done when I have no money. I'm not suggesting actively going out and taking something but if you come across the means to get it that's up to you to decide to take it or not. That is morality; when presented with the oportunity to take something you want the decision to do or not to. Sometimes I wont, sometimes even after I've gotten something for free I'll go out and buy the official version if I feel my money was earned, the only reason I go into a grey area is when I feel my money was not earned. To buy a CD for 16 bucks and learn there's only one song worth listening to is the same as a company saying they should be able to sue me for having something I would never have bought from them. It's gray.
I've downloaded GBA roms and played them when the opportunity presented itself. But that's not to say I wont attempt to buy some of these games when I'm less broke. Gunstar Superheroes? I'm sure as hell buying it. GTA:LCS? fuck yeah. These games will be worth their price and I've been out of work for 3 years. But to search these games out online specifically for the purpose of NOT paying for them ever? that feels wrong to me. A person with this mentality isnt a fan of games so much as they are a fan of anarchy and just taking what they want.
All that said this thread wasnt about the ablity to steal these games, the guy simply asked a dumb question about something that could never possibly happen with current technology. Yeah at some point in the future maybe 20 years from now when those systems a far from being commercially viable we'll have a handheld that can emulate a Xbox, etc. but it's simply not a logicial thing to ask right now, and he wasn't aware of that.
Piracy not Fucking justified!!!
You don't wanna support Microsoft cos ytou believe they do bad things??? What the hell are most of us typing on? PCs? What would we be typing on if Windows hadn't come along? Well, we probably wouldn't be typing. Microsoft revolutionised the PC era, and if some of their practices are dodgy that's just life. Fuck off and live in a comunisist country. In the REAL world people try to make their businesses viable. Why always support the little guy?
I don't like windows much either, but I am fed up with whiney little runts like you bitching about it. Buy a Mac, run Linux. But it's windows that got pcs mainstream.
But I don't wanna go there.
However, your childish, desparate attempt to justify downloading rare games is utterly stupid. You are getting worse. Listen, maybe I have a friend who works for Rare. He may not make the nest games, but he does his best under pressure from the big Bwigs at MS. So he should suffer, because of your wrath? Listen, you bad bad boy you, he makes games-he works hard! he doesn't sit there chuckling over a pot of poo thinking "How can we screw Dec for more money"!
Why do you wanna play Rare games if you hate them so much now? How in God's Earth can you say "I wanna play them, but I want to punish the people that publish them! So I'll steal them!" DO you think the guys at Rare make them for free? Do you think they are held captive at MS towers until they churn something out?
Jeez, if this is the best you can come up to justify piracy, then you are deluding yourself. Their is NO justification to stealing somebodies work. Do you go on P2P networks to steal MP3s from Sony artists? Well, I work in music and a very good friend of mine is signed to Sony. Believe me, she doesn't make that much money although she has had several number ones across the world (classical charts). So I bet she will heartily agree with your ideas-go on, she'll say, take my money from me!
No, it's her work and her livelihood you would be taking. I have no friend at rare. But it's the same.
@Yuglooc. I know he thinks it's just one unit. But if we all thought that my wasted investment in the psp would be wasted. I'm kinda worried that so much piracy os going on for the PSP that it could be doomed before it starts. There was a joker on these boards recently that was BOASTING that he had every PSP game on his hard disc. And they are now selling them on Ebay (don't look).
My Avatar isn't from a game. I write poems for the amazing website bignosepoetry.com (See signature) as a sideline. And I helped them set up the site. I liked the design of the guy on the site, so I nicked it. That's all. Sorry....
Ooh, Arm all het up noo!
You don't wanna support Microsoft cos ytou believe they do bad things??? What the hell are most of us typing on? PCs? What would we be typing on if Windows hadn't come along? Well, we probably wouldn't be typing. Microsoft revolutionised the PC era, and if some of their practices are dodgy that's just life. Fuck off and live in a comunisist country. In the REAL world people try to make their businesses viable. Why always support the little guy?
I don't like windows much either, but I am fed up with whiney little runts like you bitching about it. Buy a Mac, run Linux. But it's windows that got pcs mainstream.
But I don't wanna go there.
However, your childish, desparate attempt to justify downloading rare games is utterly stupid. You are getting worse. Listen, maybe I have a friend who works for Rare. He may not make the nest games, but he does his best under pressure from the big Bwigs at MS. So he should suffer, because of your wrath? Listen, you bad bad boy you, he makes games-he works hard! he doesn't sit there chuckling over a pot of poo thinking "How can we screw Dec for more money"!
Why do you wanna play Rare games if you hate them so much now? How in God's Earth can you say "I wanna play them, but I want to punish the people that publish them! So I'll steal them!" DO you think the guys at Rare make them for free? Do you think they are held captive at MS towers until they churn something out?
Jeez, if this is the best you can come up to justify piracy, then you are deluding yourself. Their is NO justification to stealing somebodies work. Do you go on P2P networks to steal MP3s from Sony artists? Well, I work in music and a very good friend of mine is signed to Sony. Believe me, she doesn't make that much money although she has had several number ones across the world (classical charts). So I bet she will heartily agree with your ideas-go on, she'll say, take my money from me!
No, it's her work and her livelihood you would be taking. I have no friend at rare. But it's the same.
@Yuglooc. I know he thinks it's just one unit. But if we all thought that my wasted investment in the psp would be wasted. I'm kinda worried that so much piracy os going on for the PSP that it could be doomed before it starts. There was a joker on these boards recently that was BOASTING that he had every PSP game on his hard disc. And they are now selling them on Ebay (don't look).
My Avatar isn't from a game. I write poems for the amazing website bignosepoetry.com (See signature) as a sideline. And I helped them set up the site. I liked the design of the guy on the site, so I nicked it. That's all. Sorry....
Ooh, Arm all het up noo!
Patch
Still Fresh
lubidog posted on Oct 3 2005 at 07:26 PM said:
Not really entering this debate( I buy the games I want and feel the need to buy, I 'playtest' a lot of others) but Nintendo have revamped Res evil with Capcom, and had it many months before sony.
Thats RE4 by the way. Which I purchased.
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@Patch. Yes of course that's true. But (without sounding like a sony fanboi) would they have released that game as it is sans the PS revolution?
@Alpha I agree with this. You play test a game or an album, fine. You enjoy and play it, but STILL don't buy it-not fine. So I think your voice is the one of reason.
Gaming today isn't 'Rotten'. It's exciting!
@Alpha I agree with this. You play test a game or an album, fine. You enjoy and play it, but STILL don't buy it-not fine. So I think your voice is the one of reason.
Gaming today isn't 'Rotten'. It's exciting!
lol. you funny and stupid.lubidog posted on Oct 3 2005 at 07:29 PM said:
what about a guy who works in a nuclear bomb factory who has to find another job because I went on a CND march? What about the Sega console designing employee who lost a job when Sony decided to dominate the games market. Well that was business. thats how corporations work so must be OK.lubidog posted on Oct 3 2005 at 07:29 PM said:
maybe she shouldnt have sold her music to a record labl which will take all the royalties. Arent Sony stealing your friends money?lubidog posted on Oct 3 2005 at 07:29 PM said:
"I have no friend at the nuclear bomb factory, but its the same." Bit extreme, but you see my point?lubidog posted on Oct 3 2005 at 07:29 PM said:
These corporations work to put each other out of business. They aim for market domination without any thought of putting people out of work. But you don't condemn that because you are brainwashed with your capitalist market based philosophies.
The guy that made tetris didnt ask $70 for the game. He made it for fun and for the mathematical challenge. The corporations of this world then pounced, took the game, fought over it, and ripped kids off all over the world. He would have been happy to give the game away, but people like you with your constant obsession with money fucked that up.
And maybe I would like to live in a socialist society, where the market doesnt dictate a persons value and where artistic value does not come second to profit margins, if a decent one ever existed, but its not exactly sensible to tell somebody to move to another country because they have different political opinions to you.
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x68000
Mega GP Mania
problem with playing supposedly 'redundant' games on old platforms is many are still being released in one incarnation or another. Just look at the plethorea of snes to gba conversions. By playing super ghouls 'n ghosts on the snes, are we suppressing the demand for the gba version?
Either way in the eyes of the big corporates, playing roms is bad news regardless if they are 10 weeks old or 10 years old, So i don't think anyone can take the moral high ground on this one if they have even 1 or 2 pirated roms on their system.
Either way in the eyes of the big corporates, playing roms is bad news regardless if they are 10 weeks old or 10 years old, So i don't think anyone can take the moral high ground on this one if they have even 1 or 2 pirated roms on their system.
OrR
Corporate games suck.
No. If you do that you are a stealing bastard actively doing harm to the develpers who's art you enjoy. Either buy the damn game or don't play it. I can imagine exceptions of this rule for games that are not made anymore but "I don't want to give M$ any money so I don't pay the developers either." does not work. Boycotting also means not playing the game.declaration posted on Oct 3 2005 at 09:13 PM said:
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x68000
Mega GP Mania
But if you have even one or two megadrive/pc engine roms on your pc or smc then you also condone piracy. Simple as that.OrR posted on Oct 3 2005 at 08:54 PM said:
I'm not for/against it, but there are so many hipocrites out there
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Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
I took a vow never to touch an xbox game ever, there are a couple of interesting ones and Outrun almost tricked me into touching an xbox controller at E3 once but I've managed to stick to my guns. Sure I could probably get a cheap xbox and get it modded up to copy games onto a hard drive and never buy a single one but instead I just choose not to bother with them.
But yeah any use of roms (except maybe on the PCE licenced magic engine emulator) is technically piracy. People have tried to justify it for years with the "only use for 24 hours" or "it's okay becuase I have the game" logic but all that dosent matter to the companies who own the rights to those games. So generally all of this flaming is useless.
As long as content can be "stolen" there will be "thieves" even if they dont concider themselves to be such.
But yeah any use of roms (except maybe on the PCE licenced magic engine emulator) is technically piracy. People have tried to justify it for years with the "only use for 24 hours" or "it's okay becuase I have the game" logic but all that dosent matter to the companies who own the rights to those games. So generally all of this flaming is useless.
As long as content can be "stolen" there will be "thieves" even if they dont concider themselves to be such.
buying a game second hand from a guy on ebay doesnt help the developers, but I bet Mr "lets obey the law and market powers" lubidog is not against that.
I'm not saying, "Pirate everything", I just think things are not black and white, and that things are more complicated than the stuff first spouted irrelevantly and unnecessarily by lubidog.
I'm not saying, "Pirate everything", I just think things are not black and white, and that things are more complicated than the stuff first spouted irrelevantly and unnecessarily by lubidog.
Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
Even second hand purchases are frowned on by the companies but there's little they can do assuming you live in a freemarket society. Even japan tried to outlaw the selling of second hand games once because of the potential hit to their economy. I don't believe this worked though, seeing as they have a couple of thriving second hand book and CD store chains that would be destroyed by such a law.
Right, Sony are a nuclear power plant.....
Yep, it is complicated. And I'm a hypocrate I know it. But you haven't justified it, Dec. You wanna play Rare games, but don't wanna pay for them. MS won't suffer-Rare will.
Nope, this attitude is nuts. You want to make a point? Don't buy from companies you disagree with. Don't buy an XBox or a PC. Boycott Sony etc. That's fine and Dandy.
But don't then STEAL their products, or say it's fine if no new games are made. And the Tetris example? Well, the guy that made it moved to America and is now making a healthy living from past royalties, so that's one analogy lost. Really, a socialist or even communist society wouldn't produce the games we DO enjoy.
Steal games if you want to, but don't try to justify your actions as some kind of Socialist warrior.
Yep, the whole area of roms is a grey area, and I have downloaded stacks of them in the past for 'old' systems. I might have had access to lots of pirated dvds too, so I am a real hypocrate again. But I side with alpha-I spend a lot of money on digital media products (too much...) I downloaded FF Advent Children. Loved it-will preorder it in English as soon as I can. Snes roms and Mega drive roms. I could donate money to Ninty and Sega, but haven't. I do buy current Sega and Ninty stuff. It's a hard subject. But it's different to downloading a game that is in your local game shop, playing it through and not paying for it! You enjoy it, you buy it! If you are a kid, that's a little different (only a little). If you have a wage then you are scum!
Look, I want a porsche. (another one). Should I save my money, go without here or there? or should I just say I can steal my neighbours, or just take one from the people that made it? No, i would work hard for it. Dec could say "The Germans are all bastards, I don't want to support them. SO I will NOT buy a porsche. I want one though, and I can get one for free. So I'm happy". Same thing.
Anyway, I don't have a porsche. I have a ford. Went without to pay for it. Has broken down a few times, but can get the pram in. Does anyone want to know this?
Please ignore most of this post.
Yep, it is complicated. And I'm a hypocrate I know it. But you haven't justified it, Dec. You wanna play Rare games, but don't wanna pay for them. MS won't suffer-Rare will.
Nope, this attitude is nuts. You want to make a point? Don't buy from companies you disagree with. Don't buy an XBox or a PC. Boycott Sony etc. That's fine and Dandy.
But don't then STEAL their products, or say it's fine if no new games are made. And the Tetris example? Well, the guy that made it moved to America and is now making a healthy living from past royalties, so that's one analogy lost. Really, a socialist or even communist society wouldn't produce the games we DO enjoy.
Steal games if you want to, but don't try to justify your actions as some kind of Socialist warrior.
Yep, the whole area of roms is a grey area, and I have downloaded stacks of them in the past for 'old' systems. I might have had access to lots of pirated dvds too, so I am a real hypocrate again. But I side with alpha-I spend a lot of money on digital media products (too much...) I downloaded FF Advent Children. Loved it-will preorder it in English as soon as I can. Snes roms and Mega drive roms. I could donate money to Ninty and Sega, but haven't. I do buy current Sega and Ninty stuff. It's a hard subject. But it's different to downloading a game that is in your local game shop, playing it through and not paying for it! You enjoy it, you buy it! If you are a kid, that's a little different (only a little). If you have a wage then you are scum!
Look, I want a porsche. (another one). Should I save my money, go without here or there? or should I just say I can steal my neighbours, or just take one from the people that made it? No, i would work hard for it. Dec could say "The Germans are all bastards, I don't want to support them. SO I will NOT buy a porsche. I want one though, and I can get one for free. So I'm happy". Same thing.
Anyway, I don't have a porsche. I have a ford. Went without to pay for it. Has broken down a few times, but can get the pram in. Does anyone want to know this?
Please ignore most of this post.
Goity
VIP Sleaze
I generally tend to buy my games second hand, because they're cheaper and I can't afford the prices for new ones. However, if it's something like FF or something I know will be amazing I will buy it new.
Yuglooc
Go Go Igo!
lubidog posted on Oct 3 2005 at 08:48 PM said:
No, but I would ask them if I could get a test run, so i know that what I get is really what I want, and not what others make me think I want.
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Piracy is always a touchy subject, and at times it does seem pretty silly with the holier than thou attitude that some people expose as to why their particular form of stealing is morally justifiable and why everyone else’s is not. Still all the same the beliefs I’ve always held are:
Never pirate a product that is still commercially available.
Never pirate a product that is less than 5 years old.
Of course there is an exception to this rule- Microsoft Windows, and Microsoft Office. I feel that it is an act of justifiable civil disobedience to pirate either of these products. I use Linux & Open Office as much as I can, however though the unfair, anticompetitive, and monopolistic tactics of Microsoft; I am unable to function in a Windows centric world. I need Windows because of DirectX, there’s just no way getting around that in modern games (which I BUY) as Cedega isn’t that great a solution (try getting tech support when something goes wrong…) I need Microsoft Office because Microsoft has not opened not file spec to the point where Open Office can open any file and render it correctly. HOWEVER, this does not mean that I think it’s justifiable to pirate all Microsoft products. Take MS Money for example. You have plenty of perfectly viable alternatives, like Quicken, or GNU Cash. Nor do I think it’s ok to pirate Rare games just because they’re owned by Microsoft. Pirating SQL Server also would be extremely unethical as you have plenty of real options. It’s just Windows and Office that are so pervasive that you just can’t get around them. Microsoft has done plenty of innovative things that have been great in the world of computing, and they should reward for that, that’s why I bought the Microsoft products that I have, but Windows nor Office have done anything innovative in at least 5 years, and in that same time GNU/Linux is now certainly a better operating system, and Open Office does everything I want (but deal with some damn .doc file). I’m not some crazy open source, anti-capitalist zealot, if Vista is the greatest OS ever, I’ll buy it, if however it’s a shallow cosmetic upgrade to an inherently flawed OS, that now has new “features” that will force users to upgrade to it from XP if they want to be able to interact with other Windows Vista users of which there will be plenty thanks to some slick marketing campaign, and most likely a few campaign contributions—well then I’ll just have to pirate Vista and continue to use Linux as my primary OS.
edit-
Put simply, I buy good products even if they are made by the ‘soul sucking evil’ that is Microsoft. If Microsoft makes a good game buy it, However if they make a crappy OS then use bullshit monopolistic tactics to force everyone to use it… Well then piracy seems justifiable to me. If however you actually like windows more then linux, then you should buy it.
Never pirate a product that is still commercially available.
Never pirate a product that is less than 5 years old.
Of course there is an exception to this rule- Microsoft Windows, and Microsoft Office. I feel that it is an act of justifiable civil disobedience to pirate either of these products. I use Linux & Open Office as much as I can, however though the unfair, anticompetitive, and monopolistic tactics of Microsoft; I am unable to function in a Windows centric world. I need Windows because of DirectX, there’s just no way getting around that in modern games (which I BUY) as Cedega isn’t that great a solution (try getting tech support when something goes wrong…) I need Microsoft Office because Microsoft has not opened not file spec to the point where Open Office can open any file and render it correctly. HOWEVER, this does not mean that I think it’s justifiable to pirate all Microsoft products. Take MS Money for example. You have plenty of perfectly viable alternatives, like Quicken, or GNU Cash. Nor do I think it’s ok to pirate Rare games just because they’re owned by Microsoft. Pirating SQL Server also would be extremely unethical as you have plenty of real options. It’s just Windows and Office that are so pervasive that you just can’t get around them. Microsoft has done plenty of innovative things that have been great in the world of computing, and they should reward for that, that’s why I bought the Microsoft products that I have, but Windows nor Office have done anything innovative in at least 5 years, and in that same time GNU/Linux is now certainly a better operating system, and Open Office does everything I want (but deal with some damn .doc file). I’m not some crazy open source, anti-capitalist zealot, if Vista is the greatest OS ever, I’ll buy it, if however it’s a shallow cosmetic upgrade to an inherently flawed OS, that now has new “features” that will force users to upgrade to it from XP if they want to be able to interact with other Windows Vista users of which there will be plenty thanks to some slick marketing campaign, and most likely a few campaign contributions—well then I’ll just have to pirate Vista and continue to use Linux as my primary OS.
edit-
Put simply, I buy good products even if they are made by the ‘soul sucking evil’ that is Microsoft. If Microsoft makes a good game buy it, However if they make a crappy OS then use bullshit monopolistic tactics to force everyone to use it… Well then piracy seems justifiable to me. If however you actually like windows more then linux, then you should buy it.
Prophet
God I'm old.
Can anyone spare fitty five bucks? OK.
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