Project Ninja

[Blah]

Sega Saturn Gamepad:

ABCXYZ START LR

and I would add SELECT

 

[pea]

I love this idea, don't get me wrong, but with the specs similar (but lower) than the gizmondo - what is the point of releasing a new console that doesn't offer as much? Example: Gizmondo has blue tooth, GPS, SIM card, graphics chip, etc right out of the box?

What ninja needs is a something amazing that sets it apart from the other boys - way apart - something that will convince people to go above gizmondo, PSP etc, while still keeping the price low enough to appeal to the masses.

I think a graphics chip (though more difficult to implement) is at least what it needs. What would really set it apart, though, is a huge screen (bigger than psp physically), analogue control (suggest thumb track ball), a good expansion port, full USB support, at least 64MB of Ram, support for maybe several types of removable media (very devver friendly), perhaps some sort of runtime debugger, a battery expansion that can be clipped on (think portrait grip on camera). EDIT: Clip-on keyboard/chatboard

Focus on the open-source angle and think about all the ways it can be designed for expandability right from the start (e.g. direct access to ADC and timers on the chip via an expansion port, removable/replaceble RAM, battery expansion etc) - that would be a winner.

 

[Blah]

Thats what I've been saying...But for all that stuff, you'd need one heck of a good SDK.

 

[trooper]

I love this idea, don't get me wrong, but with the specs similar (but lower) than the gizmondo - what is the point of releasing a new console that doesn't offer as much? Example: Gizmondo has blue tooth, GPS, SIM card, graphics chip, etc right out of the box?

What ninja needs is a something amazing that sets it apart from the other boys - way apart - something that will convince people to go above gizmondo, PSP etc, while still keeping the price low enough to appeal to the masses.

I think a graphics chip (though more difficult to implement) is at least what it needs. What would really set it apart, though, is a huge screen (bigger than psp physically), analogue control (suggest thumb track ball), a good expansion port, full USB support, at least 64MB of Ram, support for maybe several types of removable media (very devver friendly), perhaps some sort of runtime debugger, a battery expansion that can be clipped on (think portrait grip on camera). EDIT: Clip-on keyboard/chatboard

Focus on the open-source angle and think about all the ways it can be designed for expandability right from the start (e.g. direct access to ADC and timers on the chip via an expansion port, removable/replaceble RAM, battery expansion etc) - that would be a winner.

​

How much for all that ? £150, $150, 150 euro ? :blink:

I don`t have a bloody euro key <_< .

Trooper

 

[DemonStar55]

I don`t have a bloody euro key <_< .

​

I have one just I don't know how to use it ᖳ
it's on the 5

 

[pea]

Build a good enough device, and you would get a heck of a lot of interest from coders - SDK no problemo.

 

[junker]

Sega Saturn Gamepad:

ABCXYZ START LR

and I would add SELECT

​

that would be perfect, but would really stretch the design!

 

[Squidge]

I think a graphics chip (though more difficult to implement) is at least what it needs.

Why? Graphics chips are generally completely useless for emulation, and not used that much by homebrew as it's easier and more portable to do it in software (probably the learning curve too).

The only time a graphics chip will be useful is if you are emulating a 3d game system such as the PSX, N64, etc, where you can throw all the 3D stuff to the chip rather than doing it yourself. We know we are not going to get a 3D chip in there though, so may as well forget about a graphics chip completely.

Focus on the open-source angle and think about all the ways it can be designed for expandability right from the start (e.g. direct access to ADC and timers on the chip via an expansion port, removable/replaceble RAM, battery expansion etc) - that would be a winner.

​

Now this I agree with - make as many cpu pins accessible as possible for various experiments. If the RAM was on some kind of socket, it would be upto the user how much they wanted to install.

One thing I'd really like to see is an FPU, but the processor doesn't support it, and the external fpu modules are normally pretty crappy.

 

[Myth]

Well, i guess Projet Ninja has to convince a lot of people. So if we could do, or add something wich could be usefull or less usefull, we should add it. I think about touchscreen. I know, this is not really usefull... Really ? See the NDS ! Some games are really nice ! What about PN ? The gamer and the coder will check all the features of handhelds to select wich one will he choose. I think we should add, even if it's "useless" (and i really think that touchscreen is not useless at all, even for a game/music/movie handheld).

If we can do something, not too expensive, but not so useless, we should do.

 

[lubidog]

I am very happy to hear that we will be able to add wifi support. Online play against each other will be very good for the community!

But touch screen, I would miss that. Sorry, I know Mr Mirko doesn't want it, but it would differentiate us from the Gizmondo. And I have played Pocket Pc games with the stylus, and as a fan of puzzle games and point and click, the stylus works SO well.

So, yes-touchscreen...

 

[Fishbong]

Why just 32MB RAM? that´s way too small for NeoGeo! And i want NeoGeo sooo hard. And the RAM chips aren´t that expansive...

The idea of a socket to add RAM is not feasible IMO, because the RAM chips don´t fit into sockets, so go for 64 MB right from the start! We might regret it otherwise.

As for touchscreen: Nice feature, but only if it´s cheap. I have a PDA already and don´t need a second one.

 

[pea]

Well, the obvious argument for a graphics chip is exacly what you have suggested, squidge!

1) If this is going to be an emulator oriented device, obviously it would target the 'higher end' systems to emulate, as the lower end ones run perfectly on existing, and much cheaper handhelds. So the emulated systems would most likely by those that people have forever complained about on these boards, starting with faster snes, moving on to PSX, and then all those mame games etc. I think some sort of dedicated 2D or 3D graphics chip, or even a general purpose DSP which could be used to support the main operations, is the way to go - or else why would we move away from GP32?

2) And if this isn't going to be an emulator oriented device, I must say the prospect of accellerated graphics would appeal to most coders out there, even if it had a higher learning curve. Those coders 'scared' of it could just ignore it

Sorry, I'm not up with the play if this stuff has been mentioned already . What is the main argument against fitting a 3D chip in there? As I have read, Ninja is planning the system around the same chip that the Gizmondo has (I think). The gizmondo has an NVidia graphics chip (it used to have a different one even before NVidia got on board).

 

[Fishbong]

What is the main argument against fitting a 3D chip in there?  As I have read, Ninja is planning the system around the same chip that the Gizmondo has (I think). The gizmondo has an NVidia graphics chip (it used to have a different one even before NVidia got on board).

​

The main argument is that handheld 3D accelerator chips are very specialized hardware and can´t be bought in small batches. The CPU mr. mirko uses, the s3c2440 is a very common piece of hardware, many (small) companies are using it for various applications like car electronics and other embedded stuff. Graphics chips however are quite uncommon for small projects and companies, so they´re hard to get (or have you found a website selling them?).
And i guess it´d be also hard to implement...

 

[Digitalrat]

Would it be possible to play emulated games (as an example SNES-games) with other people through the internet using the w-lan? Like the other people just having a different controller.

 

[Squidge]

What is the main argument against fitting a 3D chip in there? As I have read, Ninja is planning the system around the same chip that the Gizmondo has (I think). The gizmondo has an NVidia graphics chip (it used to have a different one even before NVidia got on board).

The main problem is certainly sourcing them in small quantities. The other problem is getting the people who make the chips to talk to us. NVidia / ATI / etc will not talk to just anyone, and they most definitely will not release any information to the public domain, so part of the console must be proprietary and closed source, which is not the best for an open source console.

 

[x68000]

why are so many people going on about touch screens and wi fi compatibility?

surely the whole point of this project is to make a handheld which can firstly give us a solid platform for emulation, secondly, sd card support and why are some people mentioning psx emulation? who wouldnt be more than satisfied with full snes, more mame and possibly even amiga emulation as well?

And with sd card support we could expand upon the pc engine emu's and add super cd as well - same goes for mega cd with a little more work.

and maybe, just maybe X68000

People seem to think we can just jump 2-3 generations or game system in one go - let's try for one step at a time.

 

[lubidog]

Because we already have these things and more! The PSP. Also soon the Gizmondo.
And when the zodiac sorts out the snes, then why would anyone buy the Ninja?

This machine has to be built around the specs that we require, or why would any of us buy it? Seriously. I am now anjoying excellent snes emulation. Genesis is great. Neo Geo cd roms are being played etc.

So again, if the ninja can only do what I already have, then why should I get one? I really want to support this beast. But we have to set our sights on what it will be able to do, and build it accordingly. It's not just about emus, but homebrew too. Touch screens and wifi all add up cost wise but possibility wise too.

The truth is, that the psp is a generation at least above the GP32 regarding Emus. So the Ninja HAS to jump a couple of generations.

 

[gp32rich]

why are so many people going on about touch screens and wi fi compatibility?

surely the whole point of this project is to make a handheld which can firstly give us a solid platform for emulation, secondly, sd card support and why are some people mentioning psx emulation? who wouldnt be more than satisfied with full snes, more mame and possibly even amiga emulation as well?

And with sd card support we could expand upon the pc engine emu's and add super cd as well - same goes for mega cd with a little more work.

and maybe, just maybe X68000

People seem to think we can just jump 2-3 generations or game system in one go - let's try for one step at a time.

​

I'm with this guy!

Lets go for just a cpu/memory/lcd&buttons first

If there's also a comprehensive ext port the other stuff can be tagged on later


Focus on the core first, maybe put in the hands of some writers and testers, then add the icing later

 

[synkro]

as far as I under stand this:

1) This is NOT going into competition with any avaible commercial handheld. The onyl open handheld so far is our beloved GP32. This is going to be some kind of successor, the way Mirko pushes this project proves that.

2) This is NOT supposed to be an emulation platform per se for you roms leeching kids. The plan is to create an open platform for everyone no matter if you are just a user or a developer. This will only work if everybody contributes a bit nad if this project is based on a soldi community.

3) Keep it cheap, keep it simple. Mirko's approach so far is right. Specialized hardware is too expensive, 32MB RAM is enough and all other shiznick like Wifi and Touchscreen is not "needed"....

 

[Fishbong]

And when the zodiac sorts out the snes, then why would anyone buy the Ninja?

​

The zodiac sots out snes? Haven´t noticed that on mine... No, the Zodiac has maybe better SNES emulation than the GP32 but is still rather slow. And actually the SNES emulation on the PSP isn´t sooo good, you still have to use fs2 which wakes some blinking stuff invisible and the gameplay glitchy.
Snes with sound and fs0 is what we need! And the ninja might do it...