Preparing for Germany (2011-08-26)

[awoma]

I usually dont pick at typos, grammar, and spelling, because usually sets me up to make some simple mistake. But --


I just wanted to know what "garantue" means.


On a more realistic note. I think if there was a poll (or was there already?) of people who would buy a new "Pandora 2" that there would be alot more early adopters, whether first time Pandora owners, or current Pandora orders than some may realize. I'll reevaluate whether I'm ready to commit to a Pandora when the time comes where they are actually in stock and ready to be shipped when ordered.


But in the meantime, when a Pandora 2 comes out, with the power to play a higher level of x86 games, and PS2 emulation, among some other nice additions, I'll be ready to drop up to 1k. Nono, I'm not telling Pandora to charge that much, but saying, that's how high my level of interest is.

My level of interest would be major too, while at the moment I'm leaning more towards getting an xperia play (despite preferring the pandora's case design). Still, quoted because if you think the update would give PS2 emulation, then you'll be disappointed. PS2 is only at the playable stage with 3Ghz desktop computers and up. Pandora may never get anywhere close. Heck, next years PSVita won't even be close.

 

[friz898]

The Vita? This is where I disagree. I think it's a nobrainer the Vita will emulate PS2 games.


Are you thinking in the mindset of comparing it's spec's to what a computer of equal ability can do? Surely a computer with the PSP's specs could not emulate N64 or PSX, yet the PSP can.


I think due to the actual hardware in the Vita beyond just it's ram/arm processor, and the fact that Sony themselves will probably create a PS2 emulator, as they did with the PSP-PSX emulatlor -- that this is a sure fire thing.


The PS3 had a PS2 software-emulator years ago -- and the PS3 is nearly comparable specs. I'm so sold on this belief that I already mentioned to the Wife about buying two Vita's on release day. One with the sole intent of never being updated online with firmware, so that the first one's cracked, if it's a matter of what firmware it currently has -- that it'll be ready.

 

[WizardStan]

Surely a computer with the PSP's specs could not emulate N64 or PSX, yet the PSP can.

The PSP doesn't emulate the PSX, it does much virtualization and only emulates little bits that can't otherwise be virtualized, so that's a moot comparison. It's not entirely unlike saying Windows XP emulates a 486 because it can run [some] DOS games (dosbox notwithstanding).


Emulating the N64 isn't really a good benchmark in this case either because it isn't the general purpose emulator that the Pandora has. To get the speeds it does, the PSP emulator contains a number of game specific hacks: throw a game at it that it hasn't specifically been coded for and you will note how not-fast it actually is, if it runs at all. In comparison, the emulator on the Pandora is a general purpose emulator and can handle a large number of games equally well.


In that vein, it might be possible that the Vita contains a lot of PS2 parts (I don't know this for certain one way or the other at all, I'm just saying it could) that would make it easy for it to play PS2 games, but that wouldn't be the same as emulating a PS2 at all and would not be any more "evidence" that such emulation should be possible on a theoretical Pandora 2 than PSX games on a PSP.

 

[mcobit]

psvita will be arm with sgx.

 

[WizardStan]

Then the odds of the Vita being able to play PS2 games is far from guaranteed, with odds closer to the "can't" then the "can" side.

 

[mcobit]

Then the odds of the Vita being able to play PS2 games is far from guaranteed, with odds closer to the "can't" then the "can" side.

Read that: http://us.playstation.com/psvita/tech-specs/


And then say that again

 

[WizardStan]

I'm not saying anything without Exophase's blessing

 

[SavageMind]

I hate to say it. I'm not impressed. If they made it a open platform it would be great. The problem with most of these mass marketed game systems is they are proprietary. Wireless with At&t...Really? I know there will be some tireless groups trying to crack the thing and that will be great. However what's the point of buying hardware when the manufacturer doesn't openly let you do with it as you wish? I put linux on my PS3 and I'm not ashamed of it!!! :blink:

 

[friz898]

Savage, If you put Linux on your ps3, then where is the difference in thinking?


Like you "i'll put linux on my vita and not be ashamed of it"


As for AT&T, ya I agree stupid move. I'll be buying the Wi-Fi only version for 50 bucks less. I'm good with my blackberry. This isnt some forced twisted way of thinking either. If I bought one of the many tablets (such as the Nav 7) with 3G option for more money, I would do the same -- skip the 3G.


Wiz, thanks for the better explanation, however I remain stubbornly optimistic. Especially since the scene for people trying to make this a reality will be huge.

 

[Exophase]

The PSP doesn't emulate the PSX, it does much virtualization and only emulates little bits that can't otherwise be virtualized, so that's a moot comparison. It's not entirely unlike saying Windows XP emulates a 486 because it can run [some] DOS games (dosbox notwithstanding).

The PS1 emulator on PSP is like any other emulator. PSP isn't capable of virtualization. It's not in any way a magic emulation machine, except for having the benefit of a direct interface to the GPU. For an example of what you can do with an almost as direct interface to the GPU see UltraHLE targeting Glide - it can probably pull off performance similar to daedalusx64 on somewhere between a 200MHz and 300MHz Pentium 2. While this is more CPU power than PSP it's still a lopsided hardware comparison because PSP has much better vector hardware for T&L - on UltraHLE all of that had to be done on the x87 FPU. Corn, with worse compatibility, performed even better. For the PS1 comparison see Virtual Game Station; this, however, is using software rendering, so it's still at a performance disadvantage.


Daedalus x64 and Sony's PS1 emulator are impressive pieces of engineering in their own right, but that's pretty much it; that same engineering effort could have been done on a device from someone else.

In that vein, it might be possible that the Vita contains a lot of PS2 parts (I don't know this for certain one way or the other at all, I'm just saying it could) that would make it easy for it to play PS2 games, but that wouldn't be the same as emulating a PS2 at all and would not be any more "evidence" that such emulation should be possible on a theoretical Pandora 2 than PSX games on a PSP.

The superfluous PS2 components were removed from PS3 for price reasons. There's no chance that the big-time loss leader Vita will opt to include them, even if it's feasible from a space point of view (which I question). I'm going to say there's little chance that generic PS2 emulation/compatibility will be happening on Vita. The ARM cores aren't powerful enough. We haven't heard anything of clock speed but from the tips I've received I don't even think it'll be 1GHz.

 

[friz898]

Exo,


I definitely dont have the knowledge or experience to try to argue either software or hardware with you. So using an argument of logic and business-thinking instead, do you not feel that Sony already has some kind of plan in motion for a PS2 classics, as the PSP did with PS1 classics? Surely they would not allow themselves to miss the opportunity.


If it's simply impossible, then again call me stubborn, but I'd almost have to insist that in a later revision Sony may include any barebone upgrades required to make it a reality.


I'm not buying or banking on the Vita being able to do PS2 as reason for purchase, I'm a huuuuuuuuge PSP loyalist. I'll get it regardless, but it just well seems... 'logical' that Sony would plan for this. They need every edge they can get to overcome Big N's 1st Party advantage and name recognition in the market for handhelds. Even with the 3DS flopping (so far).

 

[Prometheus]

^ You're a bit behind on the 3DS info, there. (And even for coming in just below the target for the first five months, the 3DS still did better than the DS did in its equivalent first five months - hundreds of thousands more units sold, in spite of a higher price, worse economy, and not being released to coincide with the Christmas shopping period. That part's over now, at any rate. Take a look at the reported increase for Ubisoft's games, as those are offered in every "Buy a 3DS and get a free game" deal. 700%, after the price-cut.)

 

[Exophase]

Exo,


I definitely dont have the knowledge or experience to try to argue either software or hardware with you. So using an argument of logic and business-thinking instead, do you not feel that Sony already has some kind of plan in motion for a PS2 classics, as the PSP did with PS1 classics? Surely they would not allow themselves to miss the opportunity.


If it's simply impossible, then again call me stubborn, but I'd almost have to insist that in a later revision Sony may include any barebone upgrades required to make it a reality.


I'm not buying or banking on the Vita being able to do PS2 as reason for purchase, I'm a huuuuuuuuge PSP loyalist. I'll get it regardless, but it just well seems... 'logical' that Sony would plan for this. They need every edge they can get to overcome Big N's 1st Party advantage and name recognition in the market for handhelds. Even with the 3DS flopping (so far).

Sony may encourage companies to port their PS2 games, just as they're encouraging them to develop the same engines for PS3 and Vita. PS1 emulation on PSP was worth the price, which only included developing the emulator; I don't think a single design decision on PSP was made with PS1 emulation in mind. That said, I'm not sure how much money the PS1 classics earned them. I'm also not sure how enthusiastic people will be downloading multi-GB PS2 games to media that can only hold a few of them.


I don't think they'll miss an opportunity because I don't think there really is much of an opportunity, there's a limit to how much money you can lose on hardware. Those losses will go down with future revisions, but a major part of Sony's loss leader strategy is to lose less in time, and you don't do that by bolting on expensive features to the handheld. I think Vita would actually need more dedicated hardware than PS3 did with its partial emulation (with iffy compatibility).

 

[friz898]

Prom,


Nah, I read Joystiq and Gamefaqs everyday. The 3DS buyers are continuously posting every good bit of news they can find. I realize after the price cut they sold a rather large number recently this past month. I'm also aware (thanks to Gamefaqs and people constantly bringing it up) that the DS had a similar abysmal start in both sales and software. Lastly, I'm also aware of the upcoming "marios" among others that will hopefully turn it around starting in November.


But -- I was an early adopter. I'm one of those that are disappointed. It's my own fault of course, I'm not blaming Nintendo, but I just had such high hopes that even though I didnt see a long list of guaranteed triple AAA tiles before Holliday 2011, that I figured SURELY many more would be announced. I just, I dont know. Made a bad choice. I paid the $250, I own 3 games, and aside from Zelda, I'm disappointed. I'm hoping that things will turn around in November with Super Mario Land 3D. I'll never trade it in, as I know it'll get some exclusives that I'll want -- but I sure didnt see the $80 price cut coming.


Not a Sony 'fanboi' or anything though. I had a DSi XL until I got my 3DS, and before that a Gameboy, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, and N64. Oh and we're buying my son a Wii for Christmas this year.


But that 3DS man, it has nothing on the "awesomeness" that is the Vita. If it wasnt for the 1st party games, and the Nintendo name, the 3DS wouldnt appear to be the early-on favorite. Basically the 3DS is like the Atlanta Braves before they finally fell after 14 winning seasons. It didnt matter who was hurt, or who was in the lineup, you always pegged them to win the division.


P.S. I hate the 3D and leave it off. I bought it as simply a DS with better graphics.

 

[fusion_power]

psvita will be arm with sgx.

Hey, sounds familiar. Could be a good thing if a possible PS Vita Homebrew Scene will focus on this Architecture. Maybe some bits of this effort are dropping from the table and lead in some nice things for our own ARM/SGX driven Pandora? ^^

 

[x68000]

Maybe i'll defeat that steroid freak He-Man once and for all with the help of the upgraded Pandora.

 

[dreamer]

^ which upgraded Pandora?


Oh wait, people are looking 2-3 years ahead again ...

 

[SavageMind]

Obviously it's the Smurf Pandora he's referring to:


http://boards.openpa...dpost__p__88141


It's the only upgrade I need. :blink:

 

[Msquared]

But please don't order another one there if you're not interested in actually buying it later. It would just lead to problems.

A simple solution to this would be: pre-orders require a deposit. Perhaps $50 or $100... Enough to show that you're serious about wanting one, but small enough that it doesn't feel like you're killing your wallet...

 

[x68000]

I'm looking 6 months ahead max, but in pandora time that equates to 12-15 years.