PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor

[Alperoot]

It's martial law in Turkey. Damn, my PGS won't ship.

 

[hlidegp2x]

"Also keep in mind that this project is safe and backers shouldn't be afraid losing their money. We've already got all agreements according to which the investing side covers all risks and expenses. Even if we manage to produce the device which would be so much high quality that its cost exceeds the funds from backers, we will do it anyway and there will be no issues in financial part."

Is that contractual when said in Kickstarter comments? Is there any lawyers in this forum?

 

[Exophase]

Here's the latest "wow it gets even worse" update for today:

We are really working now. After the campaign ends things will go faster as we will start working with many other experts (partner company), which have a lot of expertise and resources in engineering.
Also keep in mind that this project is safe and backers shouldn't be afraid losing their money. We've already got all agreements according to which the investing side covers all risks and expenses. Even if we manage to produce the device which would be so much high quality that its cost exceeds the funds from backers, we will do it anyway and there will be no issues in financial part.
We hope for your understanding the situation.
The main task of our team before working with the manufacturing factory is to deliver you the concept and to prove that this idea is worth implementing. We've done it, even in this raw form. After this campaign ends the development of internals of finished device will be a responsibility of a large team of professional engineers (much larger than now), while we will thoroughly monitor the quality of the process.

Okay, let's look back a minute on PGS's history.

1) Promote upcoming hardware on forums, claim they won't be needing Kickstarter, despite that produce a very Kickstarter-oriented promotional video.
2) When video gets distributed, claim it's because some "asshole" did it against their wishes and that somehow it convinced the investors that they needed to do Kickstarter.
3) They do a Kickstarter using a slightly modified version of the asshole video. In it they claim they had to crowdfund because they had irreconcilable differences with the investors, while simultaneously saying they still have investors.
4) In the Kickstarter comments, claim that they couldn't get investors because they all wanted an Android device with actual margins.
5) Which brings us to today: the investors are willing to take on an infinite amount of risk in covering any possible KS funding liability. So PGSLab could spend all the KS money on hookers and blow and the investors will still pay for whatever it takes to make the units exist, or at least give people refunds. So no need to worry backers, you're taking on zero risk!

Conveniently, backers only receive this assurance halfway through the funding period when people have started to cancel their pledges in droves.

My conclusion: the investors probably don't exist. Their story has been too inconsistent and implausible. No one would agree to the incredible terms they claim.

Maybe backers who still believe in this project should start demanding the investors show themselves.

"Also keep in mind that this project is safe and backers shouldn't be afraid losing their money. We've already got all agreements according to which the investing side covers all risks and expenses. Even if we manage to produce the device which would be so much high quality that its cost exceeds the funds from backers, we will do it anyway and there will be no issues in financial part."

Is that contractual when said in Kickstarter comments? Is there any lawyers in this forum?

I could definitely see these comments making their case worse if they're ever brought to court after failing to deliver.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Well , if they are in Russia, legal action would be difficult.

Just remember folks, in Russia , Video game play you. Sorry, bad russian joke there.
[doublepost=1468627037,1468626483][/doublepost]By the way, Liliputing just wrote a pretty harsh article on PGS. This forum and ED and other forums get a mention. They even quoted you Gr8one

http://liliputing.com/2016/07/dubio...-concept-raises-300-thousand-kickstarter.html




..

 

[Exophase]

And of course, this is the justification for the KS..

Successfull Kickstarter campaign is the requirement set by the investor. All obligations of the investing side become valid once we successfully finish this campaign.

Let's stop and think about this arrangement. The investors ask for a commitment of $100,000 in Kickstarter interest, to which they will provide potentially hundreds of thousands more. No strings attached.

This makes no sense.

$100,000 represents just around 400 buyers. That's nothing. Anyone with the slightest bit of market awareness knows that there's no barrier in getting hundreds or a few thousand people interested in this device.

Furthermore, all the KS does is show that people will buy at this very low price point. No one would reasonably conclude that this means the product will be a rousing success at a much higher price point, but this is what the investors are allegedly intending.

In the very best case scenario PGS is created by a competent and efficient yet very cheap team, and still costs a ton of additional investment because they've set the margins too low to cover the NRE (if they even cover the parts). So the investors get pure loss upfront, in the best case scenario. We all know how likely this actually is. You can read post-mortem after post-mortem of Kickstarter projects where the team had actual thorough engineering knowledge but entered a nigh-impossible nightmare once they faced mass production.

Look at how much PGSLab is struggling to convince their backers pledging a few hundred dollars that they have the necessary credentials to complete this device. Now imagine how an investor signing away potentially millions is going to feel. Are they going to put front so much risk without making them prove themselves first? No way. At best, they would give them just enough money to complete a real prototype, and they would provide it in very incremental steps where everything stops if they don't meet their milestones. They would not assume all this risk on an end product that these people probably can't provide. Not for a little bit of KS buzz and a paltry amount of pledge commitment. Especially not when the KS would have gone much better if they had done that work in the first place.

 

[rygD]

We are really working now.

Sure they are, just like they have been for years.

 

[Klumpen]

We are really working now. After the campaign ends things will go faster as we will start working with many other experts (partner company), which have a lot of expertise and resources in engineering.
Also keep in mind that this project is safe and backers shouldn't be afraid losing their money. We've already got all agreements according to which the investing side covers all risks and expenses. Even if we manage to produce the device which would be so much high quality that its cost exceeds the funds from backers, we will do it anyway and there will be no issues in financial part.
We hope for your understanding the situation.
The main task of our team before working with the manufacturing factory is to deliver you the concept and to prove that this idea is worth implementing. We've done it, even in this raw form. After this campaign ends the development of internals of finished device will be a responsibility of a large team of professional engineers (much larger than now), while we will thoroughly monitor the quality of the process.

More wild claims without any proof or specifics.

 

[ZXDunny]

Maybe, but you can find true believers anywhere.

Every time some emulator hoax comes around and people point out why it's an obvious fake there are always people who get defensive and angry, start bringing up emulators that people thought were impossible and so on.

Yeah, but you're guilty as sin in this regard, aren't you? Someone says they've got Dreamcast emulation running on the GBC and people get all defensive saying it can't possibly happen, and then some other fanboys come charging in saying "Yeah, but everyone said that DS emulation was thought impossible without two screens but look what Exophase did with on that Pandora and that only had one screen and so you've got to admit that DC on GBC must be possible!"

You monster.

 

[FBnil]

so you've got to admit that DC on GBC must be possible!

It IS possible, only the cardridge you connect to the GBC would need to be pretty big AND have a separate power supply...

 

[iprice]

It IS possible, only the cardridge you connect to the GBC would need to be pretty big AND have a separate power supply...

Perhaps that's the next project for the company behind the PGS...

 

[ible]

ooh, this needs to be a picture:

a guy lying down on the couch, playing some 3d printed handheld, connected by wires to a desktop computer chassis, with a PGS logo. then the MEME text: "Haters be hatin."

 

[Exophase]

Now the "nice guy" employee who started posting in the comments section as damage control against Nadir's earlier rants (and who is definitely a different person) has been addressing alleged GPD shills. You know, with zero evidence or even good reason to believe they exist. Nice strategy, no way will that make things even worse for them.

Yeah, but you're guilty as sin in this regard, aren't you? Someone says they've got Dreamcast emulation running on the GBC and people get all defensive saying it can't possibly happen, and then some other fanboys come charging in saying "Yeah, but everyone said that DS emulation was thought impossible without two screens but look what Exophase did with on that Pandora and that only had one screen and so you've got to admit that DC on GBC must be possible!"

You monster.

This one time I was arguing with people about DeSmuME ports on PSP having no potential for ever reaching decent speeds, and someone actually told me directly that that's what people said about GBA emulation until it was proven wrong.

 

[Klumpen]

from Alec Arzh:
As for the GPD WIN, we monitor their project and we hope they succeed. However we realize that the chip they are going to use (Jaguar series) is suitable (in performance) only for solutions with the TDP starting from 25 watts which is impossible to dissipate as heat within a portable device. Even 2 watts require usage of a heat sink, if not active cooling in some conditions (when the chip's full performance is needed).

 

[Exophase]

They think GPD WIN is using a Jaguar. That's adorable. I guess he confused it with Smach Z.

 

[Stainy]

These fellas are 'on it' aren`t they?

 

[Yoyobuae]

I'm imagining Excellent Expert comments as being spoken with a heavy russian accent... it's hilarious.

Also, the PGS guys say that GPD didn't have functional prototype during their IGG campaign. But they did provide during the campaign many updates with structural prototypes, 3D printed cases with functional hinge, CAD internal design (3D CG is not CAD), keyboard design, speakers design, heatsink design and so on.

 

[iprice]

I'm imagining Excellent Expert comments as being spoken with a heavy russian accent... it's hilarious.

Changing the subject slightly...

Speaking of hearing things in a Russian accent, would someone like to be immortalised in a Windows/Pandora game, speaking a number of lines (about 18 very short sentences) in a Russian accent? The game does take the stereotypical piss slightly, and is not meant to be seen as truthful or too serious. I really don't want anyone to be offended. Offers?

WIP image

 

[Klumpen]

Changing the subject slightly...

Speaking of hearing things in a Russian accent, would someone like to be immortalised in a Windows/Pandora game, speaking a number of lines (about 18 very short sentences) in a Russian accent? The game does take the stereotypical piss slightly, and is not meant to be seen as truthful or too serious. I really don't want anyone to be offended. Offers?

View attachment 28801
WIP image

If hugh ewar niet ze Djermens, I ville doo mai best.

 

[Gr8one]

New Update.....

Update #18

Jul 16 2016

Dear backer, be careful, we are under attack!
0 Comments

During the last days our project and all web pages were brutally attacked by spammers. They aim to:

- smear our status

- confuse our backers

- make the backers leave our project and so contribute to their own product's development.

The main goal they're obviously trying to achieve is blocking our campaign.

They spam endlessly trying to smear as much as possible. We're almost sure you'll see their filthy comments once this message appears.

One of their principal "arguments" to make you leave us is "absence of prototype" as they call it. However, the link to the prototype has been posted on our Kickstarter page since the compaign began. By the end of the campaign we'll try to show you the renewed version of the prototype.

To those who desperately try to smear our campaing (our competitors) we advise to apply their forces and means (which they spend to hinder us) to create a decent product, able to meet our competition! As it's absolutely clear now that your present project looks quite miserable, let's face the truth.

The next update will contain the information about our production and investment partners.

Thank you for staying with us! We'll never let you down!

I am at a loss for words.

edit: Nadir has also announced his "return" from China

PGS LAB Creator 2 minutes ago
Hello our dear backers!

I am here with you again. Today I returned back from China and I have something to share with you.

The first and the most important. We have signed the contract for developing and manufacturing our devices by one of the leading China\Taiwan microelectronics manufacturers. Under our thorough control, according to our requirements and with our help they will develop both versions of PGS, as well as be responsible for warranty and post-warranty services. They will also take care of manufacturing the main accessories. Later I will share more details about our partner.

Secondly. I've already told you about it, but many of you don't know. We've got an agreement with our investment fund. The agreement comes into force in case of successful Kickstarter campaign. The investing side will be obligated to cover all expenses on production line, producing starting batches of devices, warranty and also other expenses related with the business. Currently I'm negotiating about creating a mini-fund which will ensure the cash back for every backer on this Kickstarter campaign who invested the money, in case the backer changes his mind about having PGS before the official release. I'll try to provide you such opportunity.

To sum it up, the future of the PGS is in safety. The device will make a revolution in portable gaming no matter what our haters and enemies do.

Third. About our foes. In China I was monitoring the mail, private messages on KS, comments on KS, on YouTube, on Twitter, Instagram, even some forums. I've also noticed the unpleasant situation with the KS funding in recent days. Having analyzed the content, messages and comments with our colleagues I've come to a conclusion that we are being attacked by competitors, it's a massive spam attack. There are several people day after day are trying to blacken us. Not only the human resources are used, even spam auto-generating systems work. For instance, our YouTube channel is being daily attacked by about several hundreds of similar messages from bots. Do you know what's the point of all these messages? Something like "People, cancel your pledges, come with us in GPD, we are so cool, we have a better prototype" etc. I'm sorry that I may be excessive but I'm telling about my position.
So, everyone who is a part of this humiliating action, those b**ters who can't compete fairly, instead of supporting the revolution in gaming, they are trying to eliminate us as a threat. They realize that the PGS can ruin their works and to significantly reduce their sales. And we will make this great gaming future, I personally will make it possible.

Do you wants some interesting facts about that "competitors"?
They try to ignore it but I will remind. On the crowdfunding stage they didn't have ANY prototype (compared to us). And even that device which was shown after the campaign was in fact a device based on the weakest variation of the Intel Bay Trail. Even DMC4 runs with 15 FPS on it.

Those f***ers makes an emphasis that we do not have a prototype. I would tell those jerks from rivals to open their eyes wider. The prototype is presented in the bottom of our KS page, and closer to the campaign end we will try our best to present the improved version. Don't like that the case was printed on a 3D printer? Feeling uncomfortable that it is not based on a custom PCB? Those rivaling dumbs are trying to prove that this isn't a prototype at all. I would tell them to stop fooling our backers, just take a look on a definition of the prototype and then keep talking your bull*hit in some other place.

I've also noticed on the NEOGAF forum that some "unique" people appeal others to intentionally throw mud in our comments, to report on our project. Fortunately, opinions of that auditorium will not obstruct the creation of our device.

As for commenters like Erosquare. I know where you came from. I know who sent you. You will not succeed in your pitiful attempts to take away our backers. I thought that "competitors" company were better than that. I was wrong.

The next portion of text I dedicate to our backers, to those who believe in our success. And even when in doubts, they act considerately, they are able to see the potential of our product and they are truly looking forward to see the realization. Guys, thank you. You are our inspiration. It is the fact that you are here helps us going further, together we believe that the future of portable gaming devices is in such form-factor as PGS has. Perhaps, one day there will be the more stronger players on the market creating something that exceeds our works, but we believe that the idea of our product will prove this is the truly demanded type of device as well as the need for further developing the idea. Thank you for confidently ignoring the nonsense of our foes. Thanks for not responding to their provocations, they will try to eliminate us by all means.

We won't let you down!

Best regards,
Nadir

 

[___]

bwahahahahahahaha best response ever. everyone should cease commenting, people who still believe in these idiots are digging their own grave.