Pandora with microSD - will you buy it?

Will you buy the Pandora 2 if it only has microSD slots?

  • Yes, I don't mind much or at all.

    Votes: 31 24.4%
  • Yes, but I'd prefer it had at least one full sized SD slot.

    Votes: 35 27.6%
  • No, I need to be able to use full sized SD - it needs at least one full sized SD slot.

    Votes: 50 39.4%
  • No, microSD sucks and I will not buy it if has any microSD slots.

    Votes: 11 8.7%

  • Total voters
    127

So, microSD is a poor choice for an internal card because it has worse performance and lower capacity than full sized SD.

microSD makes a poor choice for external card slots because it's a pain to physically deal with, has low capacity, poor device/camera interaction, etc.


In either position, full sized SDXC media is more flexible, more powerful and generally, 'better'.

I partly disagree with your first point, yes, microSD has lower maximum capacity at any given time, but this is not an issue - programs do not eat up much space


What about one easily accessible SDXC slot on the front, and another next to TV-out and GPIO headers behind a flap on the back?
Decent idea - but we shouldn't need TV-out (USB 3.0 through a dongle covers need). Putting the 2nd SDXC slot on the back of the unit over/under the USB port and well recessed or capped might do the trick. If we want to dream, maybe a mag-locked door that only opens that slot if the unit is powered down... OK, that would be a bit silly.
 
It's like the difference of moving from a spinning SATA hard drive to a Solid State Disk for booting your main computer and handling the most disk intensive tasks. For most people, speed there counts more than speed on the general file storage space.

Do you got any numbers at all to back that up? Not generalization but an actual comparison between 2 equal tiers of cards. Utra high end vs ultra high end or mid to high tier? (Class 10 vs class 10)


Sent from my MB612 using Tapatalk 2
 
Grench, the problem with your arguments is it's what YOU want, not what EVERYONE wants, and there have been compelling arguments for why MicroSD would be better for an internal slot, namely that a connecter that would take much less space is possible, but not known to be possible with full SD. Besides, the fact of the matter is if there are two external full SD slots, and you can boot from one of those, your seemingly uncommon preference is still possible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Grench, the problem with your arguments is it's what YOU want, not what EVERYONE wants, and there have been compelling arguments for why MicroSD would be better for an internal slot, namely that a connecter that would take much less space is possible, but not known to be possible with full SD. Besides, the fact of the matter is if there are two external full SD slots, and you can boot from one of those, your seemingly uncommon preference is still possible.

Agreed, there has been lots of writing revolving around the same arguments, but nothing I've read addresses why the poll numbers in the other thread show internal microSD + 2 full-size external SD to be the obvious favorite at this stage. Granted, the sample is fairly small, but then again the Pandora userbase doesn't rise to the millions, it stays down in the thousands at the moment.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mini SD is the Sun.

minisdsun.png
 
Exactly.


You see, there's absolutely no other storage around.


Everyone want Mini SD, people saying the contrary are wrong.
 
Out of all the devices I own, not one uses Mini SD. I've never even seen one in real life. So yes, very much like the sun in the UK :p
 
It's like the difference of moving from a spinning SATA hard drive to a Solid State Disk for booting your main computer and handling the most disk intensive tasks. For most people, speed there counts more than speed on the general file storage space.

Do you got any numbers at all to back that up? Not generalization but an actual comparison between 2 equal tiers of cards. Utra high end vs ultra high end or mid to high tier? (Class 10 vs class 10)


Sent from my MB612 using Tapatalk 2

Yes, I have numbers and I have presented them repeatedly. You can not compare between 2 equal tiers of cards to answer the 'which is better' question. You need to compare the best of what is available at any given DATE, not by CLASS. If you insist on comparing equal class and ratings - then you're dealing with SDXC cards over 1.5 years old vs the latest microSD cards.


To my knowledge, the highest end microSDXC card on the market right now is a 64GB Sandisk class 6 card.


The highest end SDXC card is a 128GB Class 10 UHS-I with 90MB/sec reads and 60MB/sec writes.


The 'equivalent' in microSD won't likely come out for another 1.5 to 2 years. By then SDXC will have doubled again in size and speed.

Grench, the problem with your arguments is it's what YOU want, not what EVERYONE wants, and there have been compelling arguments for why MicroSD would be better for an internal slot, namely that a connecter that would take much less space is possible, but not known to be possible with full SD. Besides, the fact of the matter is if there are two external full SD slots, and you can boot from one of those, your seemingly uncommon preference is still possible.

Agreed, there has been lots of writing revolving around the same arguments, but nothing I've read addresses why the poll numbers in the other thread show internal microSD + 2 full-size external SD to be the obvious favorite at this stage. Granted, the sample is fairly small, but then again the Pandora userbase doesn't rise to the millions, it stays down in the thousands at the moment.

CraigIX has stated that the next device will be ONLY microSD.


The -overwhelming majority- of users have stated that a device with ONLY microSD is unacceptable.


To anyone here's knowledge, there is no device with two SD and one microSD port on it sitting on the drawing board.


A device with two SD and one microSD is going to, by definition, take up MORE board space than a device with two SD.


The next device is slated to be smaller.


Therefore, the next device -can't- have two full sized exterior SD and one interior microSD. It needs to save space - so increasing the board footprint by adding a 3rd slot isn't going to happen - unless all 3 are micro SD.


Given a choice between a 3 slot microSD system or a 2 slot SDXC system, I would take the 2 slot SDXC system hands down. The majority of the users would too - as presence of an SDXC port is an overwhelming favorite.


If a system -must- have a hidden slot for boot/other, AND is limited to use no more board space than 2 SD slots OR 3 microSD, then I would prefer to have one exposed full sized SDXC and one internal full sized SDXC. That is a more flexible and powerful solution.


THAT is what the question really boils down to. NOT a 3 slot SD/microSD device, but whether you'll be interested if it is a 2-3 slot microSD with one internal OR if it is a 2 slot SDXC with one internal.


Making it a 2 slot full sized SDXC external only system would be OK with me - but ignores the fact that we'll have new users booting from a media that they could easily eject during operation.


My fear is that CraigIX is going to ignore all of this and make a microSD only machine.


microSD is for the birds. It should be avoided - even if it makes the machine thicker/bigger than would otherwise be possible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Out of all the devices I own, not one uses Mini SD. I've never even seen one in real life. So yes, very much like the sun in the UK :p
I have a 1080p camcorder which uses miniSD. I was never able to find a miniSD card, I had to get a micro-mini adapter and use my high speed micro cards to use it. :p
 
Yes, I have numbers and I have presented them repeatedly. You can not compare between 2 equal tiers of cards to answer the 'which is better' question. You need to compare the best of what is available at any given DATE, not by CLASS. If you insist on comparing equal class and ratings - then you're dealing with SDXC cards over 1.5 years old vs the latest microSD cards.

To my knowledge, the highest end microSDXC card on the market right now is a 64GB Sandisk class 6 card.


The highest end SDXC card is a 128GB Class 10 UHS-I with 90MB/sec reads and 60MB/sec writes.

Dude, you knew the 90MB/s microSD card was coming, were you really not going to confirm that it isn't actually out before making that comment?


You can buy one here.. http://www.cellphoneshop.net/32mb.html


Sandisk also recently announced similarly specced Extreme Pro microSD.


I don't know when the first ~90MB/s full SD cards were released but the earliest announcement I can find is from September 2011. The earliest announcement for the microSD ones was back in April. So that's about 7 months, not 1.5-2 years or whatever.


It's not fair for you to say that full SD will always have the advantage in EVERY metric of capacity, speed, and price, then only use the fastest AND largest capacity cards for comparison. If you really want to make a serious argument about SD vs microSD performance trending post several data points of when the first of whatever speed was introduced. I'm pretty confident that the gap has narrowed, and if that's true wouldn't it probably continue to narrow?

The -overwhelming majority- of users have stated that a device with ONLY microSD is unacceptable.

47.2% is not an overwhelming majority.


That number should be enough to take alarm, but it's not as alarming as the over two-thirds who don't want to buy Pandora 2 at $699.
 
Out of all the devices I own, not one uses Mini SD. I've never even seen one in real life. So yes, very much like the sun in the UK :p
I have a 1080p camcorder which uses miniSD. I was never able to find a miniSD card, I had to get a micro-mini adapter and use my high speed micro cards to use it. :p

I managed to find a 4 GB MiniSD for my Dingoo 1½ years ago, but it was through a webshop I had never heard of, which is probably why they still had stock of it.
 
A device with two SD and one microSD is going to, by definition, take up MORE board space than a device with two SD.

What about there being a connecter for MicroSD that will take up much less space than a regular slide-in connector, while it apparently doesn't exist for regular SD?


No, an internal slot will not take up the same amount of space as an external one. I see firm arguments for why it would take up much more space to have an internal SD than the same external SD. Please stop making it out to be as simple as "the same amount of components is the same amount of space". The location of the components matters, and it's not that hard to understand why.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
47.2% is not an overwhelming majority.
I say 25.84% (the number who are completely happy with microSD) subtracted from 100% is just under 3/4. That is a big majority


In other words:


half wouldn't buy without fullSD


a quarter are completely happy with microSD


a quarter aren't sure, but might be dissuaded by the high price
 
I say 25.84% (the number who are completely happy with microSD) subtracted from 100% is just under 3/4. That is a big majority

In other words:


half wouldn't buy without fullSD


a quarter are completely happy with microSD


a quarter aren't sure, but might be dissuaded by the high price

Under what possible criteria would you equate "would buy it but would prefer something else" with the word "unacceptable"?
 
a quarter have no strong views, they would like, but don't demand fullSD


a quarter are completely happy with microSD


half demand fullSD (or reject microSD)


Perhaps this counts as a 2:1 preference for fullSD?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top