Pandora To Do Confirmation

[Poem58]

Well, this is interesting. After the last case update, there were so many questions that I finally decided to ask all the ones I have seen asked but not answered and the couple I had. Ones that while not a big deal could be ones and really would be answered if one was available. I was just trying to give them the chance to dispel the rumors that nothing else was done and it would be March before any shipped (recent poll)
However as usual, people jump in, make nasty remarks, and fight all allowing a thread that might have been answered to go to hell. If nothing else it should have just died so we could see what this ultimately proves anyway. There is no answer to these questions. At least that they feel the need to answer. While that means nothing to many, it bothers me. I just wanted to clarify some misconceptions, maybe even get some good info out there. Instead, there was nothing from OP team, just fighting and bickering, accusations and allegations, repetitions of incomplete information. RenegadeChic, not sure why you decided to go on the offensive. I have been saving up these questions for a year. I think if you cannot find an answer in a year and only have new ones you are allowed to ask. If the OP team didn't want to answer fine, I know where thay stand. But what gives you the right to decide what I am and am not allowed to ask? By the way thanks for running down the list and trying to answer it. i noticed you could only guess, suppose or say I don;t know for them. but THAT WAS THE POINT OF MY ASKING! (my first ever board question was about the TV out cables to which I was lambasted for being stupid, not reading the FAQ and understanding that S-video ONLY was S-Video ONLY, only to find my question WAS VALID and there was composite out as well despite being told how stupid I was for asking in the first place. SOMETIMES questions and the answers to those questions can let you know something you didn't previously. Not sure why some people are so against a question and/or and answer)

I was on the fence about keeping my order. So I asked some questions. I was afraid this very mess of a thread would happen. Unfortunately it's happened to every thread that asks some of these questions which is why I addressed it to the OP team specifically and combined all these questions to one easy answering spot. So now here we are, tempers flared, no information gathered. I am still on the fence (based on the fact that some of these questions I have seen from everyone else have me worried that it isn't so close, (after all I had to hurry my payment in so the first batch wouldn't ship out in June/July and I'd have to wait for the second, that was 9 months ago so I guess it wasn't THAT close to finished).

All I can say is if this community want's this project to work. We cannot have these nasty threads any more. Imagine if Pandora started to sell really fast one day and you had 100,000 people on the forums. It would be a total war zone. I practically is now. Yeah , there are some dumb questions, or lazy questions or tough questions that people don't like, but if this is how they are going to be handled. Well, we're going to have a hard time getting along and learning from one another. This is by far the most explosive message board I have ever seen. It's almost made me cancel my order within days of making it, it's taught me a lot, it's infuriated me terribly, but at least it's interesting!

So now I will hope someone will lock this thread. It was a waste of time apparently. Hope you all had fun arguing. Going back to bed now. If you see me around then I decided to hang in there. Otherwise if not. Twas nice knowing some of ya! and Merry Christmas (or Happy Hanukkah or Kwanzaa or Ramadan or whatever holiday you subscribe to) as well as a HAPPY NEW YEAR!


MODERATOR, PLEASE LOCK AND DELETE THIS THREAD. UNFORTUNATELY IT SERVES NO PURPOSE.

 

[mali]

Please stay Poem, and please keep this thread open. I'm on your side
I cancelled my order myself because of a stupid conflict I got worked up about and I regret it now.
(Off Topic: I seem to have a problem with accepting authority and so went into an in-fight with a MOD of the German board. I still think he was wrong, but I gained nothing, after all.)

I wish some of the old folks like TaG were still around..

Let's try to keep this on topic till a dev has something to say. Just in my humble opinion.

 

[second exodous]

I think when we have the Pandora in our hands we'll look back at a lot of this and laugh. Some people that were particularly nasty might feel a little stupid but oh well.

I just ignore nasty responses, I read then and then let them go, I think everyone needs to do that. I don't think this thread is all bad though and don't see why it would need to be closed.

Poem58, I had to take a break from this forum once, some people just aren't nice here and tensions are at an all time high right now with the Pandora soo close.

The only other forums I use are Linux forums and pretty much everyone is nice and helpful at both the Ubuntu and Gentoo forums I frequent. So I go there and talk when I'm fed up with the BS here.

Take a break but don't go away, the Pandora will be out soon and I think things will get better here.

 

[Vlynndar]

And this is one of the very few forum I've encountered that can invoke Godwin's law and be back on topic after two posts.
(Don't remember which thread it was.)

 

[Asmo]

the reason i didnt answer it in the first place is because half of it is common sense (that if they could ship 1000 by christmas, stuff must be ready to ship) and the other half was a tiny bit of digging.

But he wasn't asking you to answer it in the first place, you are not privvy to 'the facts'.

and i still think the threads original delivery was patronising and rude

Sadly your replies pretty much set the gold standard. Raising the temperature wasn't going to help was it?

 

[Poem58]

Please stay Poem, and please keep this thread open. I'm on your side
I cancelled my order myself because of a stupid conflict I got worked up about and I regret it now.
(Off Topic: I seem to have a problem with accepting authority and so went into an in-fight with a MOD of the German board. I still think he was wrong, but I gained nothing, after all.)

I wish some of the old folks like TaG were still around..

Let's try to keep this on topic till a dev has something to say. Just in my humble opinion.

I dunno, I see I have been basically called a troll and told I am trying to create a catch phrase (!??!) started a fight, is all I've done. and I thought these were simple! questions that asked for no definite time frames just the plan of what was to happen. So people could make their own determinations, or the OP team could spell out whatever they felt they wanted to. Looks that that would be nothing. This thread is a train wreck and the only way it could be salvaged would be to edit it back to the original post and let the team have at it. Doubt they will give information after page 6 of a nasty-thon so no one will ever want to see it.

I have just emailed OP on refund options. I made it clear I am NOT canceling yet. I can't even believe after I have talked this up to everyone I know that I would be thinking of cancelling. For me that's serious as if I cancel, I will never, ever have one. There will be no later, no batch 2 or 3. So if I call it off, it's permanent. Makes it an extremely difficult decision. It's the awesomeness of owning one that keeps me going right now. My wife voluntarily said I should not keep my promise to her and give it more time, for which the sentiment is nice and I appreciate that. just wanted a bit more info or at least some clarifications (my questions). I have spent all I had left on this device. I have nothing left to spend toward it. Which is why it's important to know about shipping and unit testing. As a customs fee or return postage on a bad unit would be nearly impossible for me to pay right now (Our unemployment rate is ofcially 10% and (unofficially 20% due to people like me who are unemployed but not eligible for unemployment) and thanks to physical injuries I have only1 job I know I can do and it worked for all of last year but only about 3 months this year. We get by, but we have nothing extra. I'm sure at some point everyone can understand that. But being a heavy geek who can no longer afford to be, this was basically my big geek present for all occasions for the next ___ years. So I am just trying to ensure that I am not going to get hit with fee's or end up with an non functional unit with a 6-8 month delay for replacement. Don't know what's wrong with asking that.

I'll stick around for now, Mali. Been here a year, why would I suddenly leave? Even if I eventually back out of the project, this was still my dream from 9 years ago. I still want it to succeed.

 

[El Jefe]

thx for the warning on the front page.
a quick glance over this last page; my eyes glaze over.

 

[second exodous]

And this is one of the very few forum I've encountered that can invoke Godwin's law and be back on topic after two posts.
(Don't remember which thread it was.)

I hate when people say something like 'don't be such a Nazi' or compare someone to a Nazi. Do they know what they're saying? It always reminds me of that episode of King of the Hill where the hippie douche(only in one episode) that calls everyone Nazis calls Hanks dad a Nazi, who fought in Europe during WWII, and gets his butt kicked. It was one of those rare times I laughed at Kind of the Hill.

 

[renegadechic]

@renegadechic
I don't know if "a lot can change in a year" is meant as critizism. I wish I could reread our conversation, but the PM limit made me delete many conversations. I've always been the same. Neither fanboy, nor troll, always in between somewhere. My tongue is split sometimes, but I always try to stick to my good intentions

ah mali, i wasnt clear. i was talking about me not you. my attitudes have changed in a year so that i no longer have the patience for being calm and passive towards people.

the reason i didnt answer it in the first place is because half of it is common sense (that if they could ship 1000 by christmas, stuff must be ready to ship) and the other half was a tiny bit of digging.

But he wasn't asking you to answer it in the first place, you are not privvy to 'the facts'.

and i still think the threads original delivery was patronising and rude

Sadly your replies pretty much set the gold standard. Raising the temperature wasn't going to help was it?

frankly the fact i gave an answer who the person i was arguing with seemed fairly satisfied with makes me not particularly bothered by the first bit. hardly concrete answers but if you can glean evidence for an answer somewhere on the forums and from having kept a close eye on the project then its worth saying. luckily i have the time to waste on here being a dick to people and venting my frustrations on people being quite rude and demanding of a team already busy enough.

as far as raising the temperature goes, i think i pretty much felt the same way with the thread as everyone did about Gerald1's thread that got moved to the off topic forum. i guess i fly off the handle more easily, but hell i'll admit i enjoyed a bit of a fight. if we are to be allowed freedom of speech, like those bemoaning their lack of it, then i'll say what i want til i get banned.



and Poem... all i ask of you is that if you are going to ask questions important to you, you at least make some effort to be polite about it. the tone and phrasing of your post IRRESPECTIVE of my replies was rude, cold and patronising. you said it like you felt you not only deserved answers but in such a way to potray a level of deceit from them. whats the plan, whats the plan, whats the plan. its like you are asking the team "what are you hiding". its RUDE ffs. why the hell cant you see that? we are so used to having such contact with the team that i think people presume they are owned some kind of knowledge but really, all we are owed are the things we have ordered as and when they come, not every detail of every process involved. if you cannot for one moment glean why i or anyone else would have gotten pissed off at your post, especially considering how many similarly demanding posts we have had over the past year, then you have even more screws loose than i do.

 

[mali]

I dunno, I see I have been basically called a troll and told I am trying to create a catch phrase (!??!) started a fight, is all I've done.

You didn't

I'll stick around for now, Mali. Been here a year, why would I suddenly leave? Even if I eventually back out of the project, this was still my dream from 9 years ago. I still want it to succeed.

 

[Vorporeal]

Poem, you're forgetting one VERY important thing. You only opened this thread 12 hours ago, and for most of that time, the Pandora team's been asleep (or, in Craig's case, should have been asleep). Be patient.

The issue I have (had?) with your initial post (and some of your subsequent posts) is that you were a bit over-the-top in your original post, saying that the lack of communication has challenged your faith in the project, yada yada. Extra information like that isn't going to get you anywhere other than into a flame war. If you have questions, it's much easier to ask them with no backstory or extra info. If you just said "I've searched for answers to these questions, haven't found anything, and so I'm posting them to see if the team can clarify any of these points or if anyone can link me to posts by the OP team where these questions are answered", things would have, IMO, gone MUCH more smoothly.

Because of the communication issues that some people feel we're having, I've created a page on the wiki where people can ask questions. The answers should either be from members of the dev team or they should be links to posts made by members of the dev team. I feel like this will be a much better alternative to having tons of forum threads - the devs only have to go to one place to find questions, and anyone can add questions to the page (yay for wikis). I'll do my best to monitor it to make sure it doesn't descend into chaos. If people agree that this'll be useful, I'll start a new thread about it to bring it to the attention of both the dev team and a larger number of forum-goers.

EDIT: Oops, forgot the link. You can find it here.

 

[Asmo]

if you can glean evidence for an answer somewhere on the forums and from having kept a close eye on the project then its worth saying.

This is not always the case. 'Facts' have changed over time. None of our pronouncments carry any weight, no matter how well founded, next to word from somebody in charge. For instance, the AV cables. Since you favor the search option, I'll let you find the recent posts where the assumption that the AV cables (and other bits) were done was corrected by ED. They aren't.

The manual that you dismiss may be important because it has already been stated that one is required for CE testing, which ED recently said would be done with one of the latest assembled units. Might be a delay, might not. Only those at the top 'know'.

luckily i have the time to waste on here being a dick to people and venting my frustrations on people being quite rude and demanding of a team already busy enough.

I didn't think 'what's the plan' counted as rudeness. I don't think asking for answers that could be provided off the top of their head is asking to take too much out of the schedule of posting about buggering ducks or making Pasta movies.
This is not a criticism of anyone's lifestyle choice or culinary skill. I like pasta.

if we are to be allowed freedom of speech, like those bemoaning their lack of it, then i'll say what i want til i get banned.

The irony.

I cancelled my order myself because of a stupid conflict I got worked up about and I regret it now.

I hear you. Nothing has made me come closer to cancelling my (day one) order than the imperious attitudes of some on the boards.

 

[SNESFAN]

By the way thanks for running down the list and trying to answer it. i noticed you could only guess, suppose or say I don;t know for them. but THAT WAS THE POINT OF MY ASKING! (my first ever board question was about the TV out cables to which I was lambasted for being stupid, not reading the FAQ and understanding

It is pretty sickening how there will be 15 threads of areguments over who has the largest nerd peepee and nobody blinks an eye, but when someone asks a question that had already been answered "a million times" in reality, maybe 5-6 times in the thousands of pages this forum, it's almost like the end of the world to some people on here. "You sir, have personally slapped me in the face, and shagged my mother in the process by your complete and total lack of use of the search button... how dare you!"

What I think is awesome is the number of SME's are out there (Subject Matter Experts) on stuff that, in reality, they are not a part of and don't REALLY know what is going on other than what they've read. The only reason they might seem knowlegeable and to be able to regurgitate the 3 times over regurgitated information. Is because it almost becomes a full time job haveing to filter through the BILLION pages of garbage to get a sliver of real information. The ones that do have the time for this have no life, and in such cliche, have adopted the elitiest jerk mentality. Thank god for the guru avatar or else I'd never get any real information, just crap people make up and stamp it with some bullshit seal of approvial as if it was gospil.

In the end it does just seem like a pissing match where anyone and everyone will rip appart anything anyone says, like some kind of intellectual king-of-the-hill match. Carry that out to the 100th power and you got the majority of these boreds

 

[renegadechic]

This is not always the case. 'Facts' have changed over time. None of our pronouncments carry any weight, no matter how well founded, next to word from somebody in charge. For instance, the AV cables. Since you favor the search option, I'll let you find the recent posts where the assumption that the AV cables (and other bits) were done was corrected by ED. They aren't.

The manual that you dismiss may be important because it has already been stated that one is required for CE testing, which ED recently said would be done with one of the latest assembled units. Might be a delay, might not. Only those at the top 'know'.

thanks for the link onthe AV cables. i was struggling with the correct search term for that. i was looking up tv out cables and having less success. the issues is obviously confused to a degree since MWeston referred to them as production samples rather than prototypes, and because of that i do wonder if there are crossed wires.

if i think of other devices, i think the kind of manual they mean for CE reasons is the kind of thing that provides safety warnings rather than any detailed use of the device. all my portable equipment has had that and scant else and it really can be whipped up quickly as its fairly standard between devices.

i would also like to point out that i said that some of this stuff is potentially moot anyway as if they really was a possibility of delivering 1000 pandoras before christmas, then the stuff must have been in place to do so, with all or most of those things covered. i dont think the team really want to have to split up the orders and spend more packaging and sending AV cables and cases separately so its likely to have all come together. yes, it is an assumption but its not an unreasonable one!

I didn't think 'what's the plan' counted as rudeness. I don't think asking for answers that could be provided off the top of their head is asking to take too much out of the schedule of posting about buggering ducks or making Pasta movies.
This is not a criticism of anyone's lifestyle choice or culinary skill. I like pasta.

i think its pretty evident that craig is a little bit sick of the endless questions. considering his slightly out of character response to Gerald1, it goes to show how much of a buzz kill a lot of the posts must be. often the more he has said, the more he has been laid into about it with people always looking to evildragon for their answers. fact is, ED speaks up when their is a definite answer (usually) and craig (used to) try to give some of these estimates that everyone seems to clambour for. its never been productive and has never been worth it.

also, it was the middle of the night and not only that, he was attempting to answer queries about the hinge with the video, which was a massive and far more significant question than stuff like this.

The irony.

i know and it probably seems nonsensicle but i really would rather divert heat towards myself, piss off people who (in my opinion) moan and bitch unreasonably so that they get a refund and someone else can take up their order, or at least attempt to make someone see how unreasonable they are being in their questions so they back the hell off, than not say anything at all. (hmm that might take a bit of rereading to gather together, my grammar isnt too hot).

we are all frustrated. anyone who finds this an idea situation is mad. we know the team is constantly working on things. we have regular updates and videos. generally as soon as they know about something important, we know. transparency for me is very high and if there is ever a problem with the plans we have always been told what it was. if people arent keen to hold out for the device since they can do something else or better with the money then fine, they should do it. i dont understand people though who are all in this situation, privvy to all the same information, never likely to cancel their order, but who moan and moan and moan at the team all the time. i dont get why it is important to ask a lot of the questions, especially in a demanding way, because its completely removed from being constructive. yes, ok, thats ironic coming from me, but i cant even remember if i have started a topic this entire year, and i dont think i have ever asked anything of the team directly. its just not my place to. compare that to the people who post new topics all the time, asking questions directly to the team. i just find it presumptuous that they think they should have their every whim answered, and annoying to see all the time as someone who primarily lurks.

blah blah this is long and i on my lunch. do you really not see the point i am making at all? or am i just mad in yet another way.

 

[mali]

Awesome post, jb0yx

Another bit we have to consider are those large amounts of lurkers, watching the mess every day. I have been away for some time and somehow have the feeling that more of the reasonable people have left the discussion than the "whiny bitches". And with whiny bitches I mean the people who point their fingers at somebody else and piss their pants when they get a PM instead of being persons who are able to admit a mistake. I'm so glad that some friends like RenegadeChic are still here even if they are a little annoyed sometimes
If we want to be a strong community and help the OP team, we should just be more calm when discussing. Personaly I LOVE a real bitchfest, but it's not so much fun any more like it was a year ago.

 

[renegadechic]

I'm so glad that some friends like RenegadeChic are still here even if they are a little annoyed sometimes

haha yeah, i think i hit my limit break with this one, and i was in a pretty bad mood anyway

i dont think that trawling the forums for answers to people, even if you arent a guru is sad or whatever because if its a quote from the devs then it answers the question. we are all sat on this forum all day, we all have too much time on our hands, i dont like to think we are all losers. also i question the sense of eliteness. i feel thoroughly shot down by the majority of you but it doesnt mean i've changed my opinions.

ultimately people who make the efforts to answer questions do so in an attempt to passify the poster, and take the pressure off the team. if that makes you a loser then wheres my loser avater already.

 

[second exodous]

If we want to be a strong community and help the OP team, we should just be more calm when discussing.

I think most prospective buyers that will not see a Pandora in real life and come to the forums to decide if they want a Pandora or not will walk away thinking 'there is no way I want a Pandora, I have to go to that place for help? No way.'

I see people with under 10 posts get their head bitten off almost on a daily basis, some times to never post again. Are these people going to get a Pandora? Most likely not.

This isn't new for this forum either, when I got my GP2X it was exactly like this. I think most people on this forum are under the age of 20, have never used anything but windows so they can't understand why it can't be just like windows, and won't ever own a Pandora but are very opinionated about topics they know nothing about.

If Gentoo runs well on the Pandora I'm going to those forums, the Beagle Board people I talk to on there are knowledgeable and helpful where here we have people that only know what their PC runs and want to fight.

As a community to port things and make homebrew I think the Pandora will succeed, but as a community to go to find help/spread ideas/talk to other Pandora users I think this community is a dead end. I really think if you cut out all the people that don't own the hardware from a sub forum it will get 300% better. I remember back when I had a GP2X most of the 'bitchy people' as you put it were people that didn't even own a GP2X, just liked to argue and complain that it wasn't how they thought it should be even though they have never even used a GP2X.

 

[mali]

ultimately people who make the efforts to answer questions do so in an attempt to passify the poster, and take the pressure off the team. if that makes you a loser then wheres my loser avater already.

That's what I do, too. Calming, even if it's not obvious sometimes. You have to join the other side sometimes, if necessary
I think we are done now, love each other, and let's give the thread back to Poem to get his answers, not that I'm not interested to know the answers myself

 

[fiori_musicali]

Instead of turning this into a flamefest post-traumatic therapy group, let's make it something constructive and positive, such as yet another funny pictures thread.

I start.

Spoiler

WHERE'S MY FUCKIN' PANDORA!!!!!!!!1roar

 

[renegadechic]

As a community to port things and make homebrew I think the Pandora will succeed, but as a community to go to find help/spread ideas/talk to other Pandora users I think this community is a dead end. I really think if you cut out all the people that don't own the hardware from a sub forum it will get 300% better. I remember back when I had a GP2X most of the 'bitchy people' as you put it were people that didn't even own a GP2X, just liked to argue and complain that it wasn't how they thought it should be even though they have never even used a GP2X.

nah it think it'll be fine just as soon as we all have our pandoras. we're all at a limit one way or another and frayed in different ways. don't lose faith yet, just wait and see ive actually been waiting for it to come out to really join in and after today i'll probably go back to that!