Pandora To Do Confirmation

[Beepo]

I'm just as frustrated due to delays as the next guy, but think about this from their point of view: You're trying to get a hundred little things done, a large portion of which you have to delegate to an external party (Chinese moulds). The estimates you can provide on when it's ready is largely guesswork at best. You hope for the best, fear for the worst, and then... Yes, ANOTHER delay. Not only are you disappointed, you know that pre-orderers whose money you used to build the thing are already knocking on your door with pitchforks and torches in hand, and you have to break the news for them. Every delay naturally brings with it a little more hostility from the paying customers, and you know you're gonna have to step in there and take the beating. The bitching sure doesn't do any good for your motivation to go and inform the public what's going on, you'd rather just wait until some really good and promising news kicks in rather than describe in detail all the moonwalking that the project goes through.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that Poem58 is bitching here, but I am trying to rationalize why asking too many questions too often could be counter-productive for getting the answers.

I can understand that viewpoint. But obviously it would be far simpler to put all the outstanding items, in some detail, in one place. That way people wouldn't have to read all the rubbish in the forum only to be disappointed. What I think we are asking for is a clear breakdown of the outstanding items, in detail, with the information the 3rd parties have supplied re delivery etc. If people reading that understand that the 3rd parties are responsible for the time frames stated then I can't see a problem with it. This would show a detailed and clear current position that anyone could understand. It would also be quite clear that if there was slippage due to a 3rd party it was not OP to blame. This is better for everyone, OP, patient pre-orderers and fanboys like RenagadeChic alike as it would be quick to peruse, result in less threads on the forums and less hassle for Craig etc. Also as a one page static HTML document it would take no time at all to update, there's no way on earth anyone can say this would eat so far into the day that it was insurmountable, that would be grossly unrealistic.

Sigh, there have been SOOOOO many of these threads.

Just let them (the devs) get on with it FFS.

This would stop the threads AND help the devs get on with it AND keep us all more informed at the same time!

 

[renegadechic]

Sigh, there have been SOOOOO many of these threads.

Just let them (the devs) get on with it FFS.

This would stop the threads AND help the devs get on with it AND keep us all more informed at the same time!

nope its never worked and it never will. the threads just keep on coming and coming.

 

[Beepo]

nope its never worked and it never will. the threads just keep on coming and coming.

Point me at the failed, detailed status page that was regularly updated and answered all of Poem58's questions and I'll believe you. Until then stop trolling.

Edit: Spelling.

 

[Tiger1]

Boils down to just another daay of delays, and no answers. no updaate , or wword from anyone about the pandara. we told absolutely we would here about the cases today and no answer on that too. gezzzzzzzzz op, do yall not care about letting people kkkknow anyhting, apparantely not as you continue to avoid us. anothe disappointed day of hopeing ruined. oh well. I wouldnt expect anything else.

 

[Elanzer]

Boils down to just another daay of delays, and no answers. no updaate , or wword from anyone about the pandara. we told absolutely we would here about the cases today and no answer on that too. gezzzzzzzzz op, do yall not care about letting people kkkknow anyhting, apparantely not as you continue to avoid us. anothe disappointed day of hopeing ruined. oh well. I wouldnt expect anything else.

Cancel your preorder.

 

[Beepo]

Cancel your preorder.

I fail to see how that helps anyone. It doesn't help Gerald, it doesn't help OP and it doesn't help this thread.

 

[darien]

You know if I was building a product and a stakeholder kept bugging me about wanting to know things which wouldn't speed up the process, but rather take me away from working as hard as I could to get it out, I'd be a little annoyed if not demotivated from the constant nagging that places obstacles in my work momentum. I don't even like logging timesheets! Delays happen and they've been a common thing for a long time, but we're so close, and certainty isn't going to come any easier regardless of the fact. The delays happening now are good delays. It's quality assurance to make sure you're satisfied for the next 5 years with your item (suffering now only for a bit), instead of having some instant gratification and being unhappy with aspects of it from then on. If I recall, we've been getting some decent vids and pics of working units that need slight adjustments. This was not long ago at all. If you think this was long ago, you must be equating days with the number of times you've hit F5 and need to be more preoccupied. Now if that much time passes within that short amount of time for you, imagine how much time answering questions equals to people actually being productive!

It's not just a matter of having answers, it's a matter of satisfaction and until you get the end product, you'll never be satisfied, so why not learn to chillax and let people who work, work. Next thing you know, it'll be the same people begging on software developers to get their asses in gear, and this isn't something any of us look forward to. You already know with certainty that if you ordered, you'll get the item, people have been working really hard to get you something that wouldn't even exist if they didn't take the initiative. It's disconcerting when people who had faith in you begin pulling their bets, especially when you're trying so hard to give them their money's worth, rather than releasing a third rate product. You guys don't need these answers, and we're already so close now. You know certainty isn't everything. If you want certainty, cancel your orders and sit pretty knowing it'll never come for you until you decide to jump back on board. Canceling would buy you peace of mind if you truly don't have the patience, but don't use it to threaten the hardworking people behind it all.

 

[Elanzer]

Cancel your preorder.

I fail to see how that helps anyone. It doesn't help Gerald, it doesn't help OP and it doesn't help this thread.

The point isn't to help the thread. Gerald is troubled that he isn't getting what he wants, then he should get his money back and get something else that is available. Someone else waiting in the second batch will be willing to take his place with more patience and grammar.

 

[Sphinxter]

I know that where craig is and the factoru is, they are 5 to 6 hours ahead of me, so that puts them around 8.00pm. and not one word about the casess are anyhting.

If you can't even handle the most simple of tasks such as knowing that craig is NOT the one reviewing the cases, don't even bother posting.

MWeston is the one receiving the cases and will be checking them over, he does not even live on the same continent as craigix. It's not even remotely close to 8pm where he is, you're off by about 5-6 hours.

ps: shut up.

Thanks.

 

[Beepo]

@ Darlen: I cant speak for others but I certainly won't pull out, and I can't see that I'm asking for something that will eat so much into someone's day that they won't be productive. There's 4000 units at $330 each, that's a lot of wedge. I just want a little more clarity on the last few outstanding tasks. Anyone with a vested interest in a project surely would like to see the same. Are you really saying that if more detail was available in an easily accessible format you wouldn't eat it up?

@Elanzer: What has grammar got to do with anything?

 

[intense_mc]

I think this guys' post under "pandora's um..." on the front page replies to this thread succinctly;

Having worked for a handheld manufacturer before, I can say that large(ish) firms also have to endure these kinds of delays and supply chain problems too. The differences here are A) most companies don’t take preorders or make announcements until the machines are 99.9% complete and B) everything is shrouded in secrecy via NDAs, so the average consumer would never find out any of this goes on.

Yes, it’s annoying to have to wait, and yes, we want them right now, but it is refreshing to see them taking the time to do things right, and even more refreshing to see the entire process, from cocktail napkin sketch to case manufacturer frustrations to final prototype laid bare for all to see and for the public to actually have had a say in how the final product turns out.

- by talentless_newb December 14, 2009 at 1:35 pm

 

[Beepo]

I think this guys' post under "pandora's um..." on the front page replies to this thread succinctly;
Having worked for a handheld manufacturer before, I can say that large(ish) firms also have to endure these kinds of delays and supply chain problems too. The differences here are A) most companies don’t take preorders or make announcements until the machines are 99.9% complete and B) everything is shrouded in secrecy via NDAs, so the average consumer would never find out any of this goes on.
Yes, it’s annoying to have to wait, and yes, we want them right now, but it is refreshing to see them taking the time to do things right, and even more refreshing to see the entire process, from cocktail napkin sketch to case manufacturer frustrations to final prototype laid bare for all to see and for the public to actually have had a say in how the final product turns out.

I agree, it's a wonderful thing and very rare in the modern (mostly capitalism scumbag) world. However, I believe that it wouldn't be very hard for someone to post answers to Poem58's questions - preferably by adding more detail to the status page. I also feel, as I've said numerous times before that I don't see this as a big commitment involving many man days effort per week as some people appear to be implying. I also don't feel it's a request that is out of the question as this is a project that has been funded by pre-orders and there are loads of people that don't read the forums, let alone go to the off site links from www.openpandora.org.

Anyway, I've made my point numerous times this week, nobody appears to care very much and nobody from OP has bothered to make a comment so I guess nobody is interested.

 

[renegadechic]

right then, troll

well, obviously here is the status page: http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98&Itemid=13&lang=en

"1. Plans were for 1000 Pandoras to be made once cases are given green light. Do we have a lead time or even educated guesstimate of time for, or size of runs after the initial 1000?"

this is a complete misstatement the expectation was that if moulds were ready in time, the assembly team in the US would get 1000 pandoras ready before christmas with a christmas gap where they're on their holidays with the 2895 or whatever to follow after when they come back, see the quote below.

http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98&Itemid=13&lang=en

it wasnt a "we are gonna do 1000 and everyone else can wait" it was an explicit "holidays are the only thing in the way". i expect that 1000 cases will be pressed, they will check them when they arrive, and then the next lot will all come at once or very quickly afterwards. the mould company can press out all of them in a day but they want to make sure of the quality of them.


"2. Will US orders be shipped from assembly factory for sure (last was a "don't see why not" or "should be possible", not actually a "yes") important to know if some sort of import customs fee will be needed in the future. I saw mention of other assembly locations, are Pandora's for sure now going to be produced in multiple locations? Was alternate assembly locations just a thought?"

well the best i can find on this is this

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/49128-delivery-notification/page__st__15__p__748240__hl__shipped%20assembly__fromsearch__1&#entry748240

either way i doubt they will send them round the world and back for the sake of it, it sounds to me like they will avoid it at all costs.


"3. Have the Adapters been ordered? Will they ship later? What is the plan?"

Not sure about the rest, but regarding question 3:

Apart from the fact we already have the chargers and they came from a UK company?

Looks like they are all made.
http://www.gp32x.de...post__p__785067

"4. Protective cases sold by you, have they been decided? Ordered? What is the plan?"

hmm hard to find anything too definite on this, but i am fairly sure i remember them being relatively "off the shelf" items they could just order. have they been ordered? no idea.


"5. TV-out cables. Ordered? Lead time if not? Ship later? What is the plan?"

http://pandorapress.net/2009/09/11/the-av-cables-have-landed/ though it does not say if they are ordered and whether there is a lead time, theyre production models so if they arent already ordered or done already, i doubt itll take long


"6. Manuals done? What is the plan?"

meh i dont give a shit about a manual anyway. its never likely to say a huge amount but there will probably be something, even if someone just prints out an A4 page.


"7. When asked earlier, it was explained to me that Pandora's 3800-4000 were to be used if needed for replacements in case of DOA or not fully functional units. I have recently seen people posting that they have orders in the 3800-3900 range. Is that wise? If I read correctly the place making the rest of the boards is a different place than who did your original 105 (recommended as a more cost effective solution)? So isn't it dangerous in that case to base your failure rate from one supplier on that of another? Did I misunderstand and all is well? or the testing will insure all shipped Pandora's function and if testing ensures that will more boards be made immediately to replace failed ones? Please clear up anything I don't understand about this part."

well, i cant answer that one since its such a specific question. either way, who knows. theres probably some replacement units but i guess with the situation having gone on as long as it has, they do need money. if they sell them and plan to replace them out of the next batch, its a bit of a shit, but at least its meant the project could finish.


"8. Someone pointed out that Keymats should already have been made while we wait for case tweaking. What is the plan on these?"

i thought they were being doing at the case factory and would be shipped out along with the big batches of cases? could be wrong i guess...



"9. Silk Screening. Where, How Long etc... what is the plan?"

again i thought this was at the case factory or the assembly factory. if the case factory i expect it would be before they sent them over. frankly though i dont think most of us care if they even bother with it



if they thought they could get the pandoras sent out before christmas, then i genuinely believe questions 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9 dont really need answering. the are in a position to have been done and sent out, therefore i personally wouldnt feel the need to ask.

questions 1 and 2 always seemed to make sense to me, especially number 1. number 2, well it makes a lot of sense.

of all of them, question 7 seems the most interesting question, but even then, whos problem is it? if it breaks down and they cant replace it, i am fairly certain you would get a refund.



phew


edit: ugh too late for font editing

 

[Beepo]

Wow, I think you just restored my faith in humanity. Thank you RenegageChic.

I only wonder why you couldn't just answer like that in the first place instead of the tirade that you actually presented. :lol:

How much nicer it is to be part of a community that tried to help instead of mock and tear down. I'm sure Poem58 will be very pleased that someone has actually attempted to answer his very genuine questions.

 

[rmm2131]

I do not understand why these questions have not been answered with reasonably certain answers.

I've been dedicated to this project before I signed up on this forum. I've questioned but my faith hasn't wavered. They are probably very busy getting the (hundreds?) of small things we know nothing about fixed so we can have our Pandoras before years end or maybe January. The things you asked(keymats, shipping locations, adapters, protective case, silkcreening) are probably already taken care of or are lightning quick to accomplish by whatever company they are using. The small stuff really.

Blame it on my childhood, but unanswered questions have for me always been a sign of deceit. While I DO NOT think this in this case, I do not understand why these questions have not been answered with reasonably certain answers.

In all honesty it really isn't any of our business what happens in the background. Yes I know we paid and we should know what is happening, but seriously this isn't that hard to figure out, beyond what they said already, that they are waiting on the Chinese companies revisions of the moulds and its been stated by Craig that the boards will be populated and finished before Christmas. Any further delay and they'll let us know. Shipping will happen after assembly.

Renegade did a nice write up for those naggingly important questions now...
+1 to close this thread so the team can stay working on what matters

 

[renegadechic]

the reason i didnt answer it in the first place is because half of it is common sense (that if they could ship 1000 by christmas, stuff must be ready to ship) and the other half was a tiny bit of digging.

you might think i am an idiot, and hey, its not like i havent tried to offend you, but i wasnt just being a cunt when i said "we get these posts all the time and they change nothing". and i didnt mean that it doesnt change the pandora coming quicker, i meant it doesnt stop the inane threads and reasking of the same questions. chip is right, it is like an endless "are we there yet". people are sick of various permutations of the same questions or people just inventing questions more and more irrelevant with each new thread. its sickening.

its ironic that you talk about how nice it is to be part of a helpful community but it wears everyone down. me and mali shared some pms in december last year and i wrote this:

"The board is quite overwhelmed at the moment. Its a pretty disappointing reflection on humanity to see everyone just polarising themselves over petty arguements rather than being constructive. Some people seem to relish taking pot shots at the project and once one issue is moved past, they just jump on another. Surely they must have something better to do! Anyway, you seem quite noticably rational and constructive so yay for you and the ilk "

a lot can change in a year!

and i still think the threads original delivery was patronising and rude

 

[edgex004]

the reason i didnt answer it in the first place is because half of it is common sense (that if they could ship 1000 by christmas, stuff must be ready to ship) and the other half was a tiny bit of digging.

you might think i am an idiot, and hey, its not like i havent tried to offend you, but i wasnt just being a cunt when i said "we get these posts all the time and they change nothing". and i didnt mean that it doesnt change the pandora coming quicker, i meant it doesnt stop the inane threads and reasking of the same questions. chip is right, it is like an endless "are we there yet". people are sick of various permutations of the same questions or people just inventing questions more and more irrelevant with each new thread. its sickening.

its ironic that you talk about how nice it is to be part of a helpful community but it wears everyone down. me and mali shared some pms in december last year and i wrote this:

"The board is quite overwhelmed at the moment. Its a pretty disappointing reflection on humanity to see everyone just polarising themselves over petty arguements rather than being constructive. Some people seem to relish taking pot shots at the project and once one issue is moved past, they just jump on another. Surely they must have something better to do! Anyway, you seem quite noticably rational and constructive so yay for you and the ilk "

a lot can change in a year!

and i still think the threads original delivery was patronising and rude

You have to admit, the reason people jump from issue to issue is because the OP team really only regards the current problem as the rate limiting step in getting the device out (or at least that's how they come off most of the time). In reality the whole process is going to be longer than we are told/hope, but a lot of people have trouble accepting that. Hence, the jumping on whatever issue the team seems to be stuck on at the moment.

 

[Vorporeal]

I'm normally a very patient person, but I'm quickly reaching my limit. Craig and Co. are under NO obligation to tell you guys ANYTHING. None whatsoever. When they tell you stuff, you should be grateful that you're getting information and not disappointed that it's not the information you wanted. Let's say they just decided to stop talking to us and say "We're just going to get it finished and ship it to you, you'll receive an email when your Pandora is shipping". What would you do? You'd just have to sit patiently and wait. Sure, you could complain on the forums or send them emails, but that's not going to get you anywhere. You could also cancel your order and stop having to worry about it altogether.

So basically, be grateful that they're communicating with us at all. If you don't like it, deal with it patiently. If you really don't like it, cancel your order and spare us the whining. Spewing the same garbage onto the forums on a daily basis isn't going to get you anywhere.

If you disagree, I welcome your replies.

EDIT: Just want to add in that badgering them for more information is, IMO, quite disrespectful, as they're doing their best to let us know the status on everything that's going on.

 

[punkysfamily]

I think I am losing my mind everyday I come home from work and read this same thread..deja vu :blink:

 

[mali]

I think I am losing my mind everyday I come home from work and read this same thread..deja vu :blink:

Hehe
I try to filter out what was said already and while doing so I even remember members that don't post anymore and when I look at the username it's someone totally different posting the same stuff at the same tone. Creepy
The whole Pandora project is stuck in a 2 months timewarp.
The only thing that changed in the last year is the console itself, it's nearly complete and that makes me really happy

Edit:
@renegadechic
I don't know if "a lot can change in a year" is meant as critizism. I wish I could reread our conversation, but the PM limit made me delete many conversations. I've always been the same. Neither fanboy, nor troll, always in between somewhere. My tongue is split sometimes, but I always try to stick to my good intentions