Pandora Should Move To Android

[Trickyhero]

(...)
Never say never - we don't even know what the certification rules are. Can the certification be applied to an isolated virtual machine run on the device? We don't know. At this point the whole discussion is hypothetical anyway.(...)

With a quick googling I've found a page on "android compatibility" that includes a link to the Android Compatibility Definition Document (CDD)

Starting from page 20

Paragraph 8.9: "Device implementations MUST include a camera."
Paragraph 8.10: "Device implementations MUST include a 3-axis accelerometer and MUST be able to deliver events at 50 Hz or greater."
Paragraph 8.11: "Device implementations MUST include a 3-axis compass"
Paragraph 8.12: "Device implementations MUST include a GPS"

I'd say that hopes for a google certified android on pandora are quite low.

Yeah the Archos 5 didn't have a camera so it wasn't allowed into the regular store and they made there own. The only problem is that it sucked so everyone made a super easy hack to get it working on it. So I don't think that compatabily to the store itself is the problem. I just think that most of us (including me) dosn't have much intrest in it. Besides all apps would be awkward just like on the Archos. Not made for the screen size, wants a multi-touch screen, wants a camera, wants a aceleromator ect. Besides, all the games on there would be crappy or not usable with our super awesom controller. But if some people want to use it go ahead, the pandora is all about choice, I see that there are some obvious advantages, that some of you see. As long as all the development dosn't change to Android, I'm happy.

 

[pder]

Could someone that is familiar with Android provide an example of an Android application they would be interested in running on the Pandora? I'm trying to understand what is available for Android in which there is no linux equivalent that would actually run on Pandora hardware.

 

[jdbye]

(...)
Never say never - we don't even know what the certification rules are. Can the certification be applied to an isolated virtual machine run on the device? We don't know. At this point the whole discussion is hypothetical anyway.(...)

With a quick googling I've found a page on "android compatibility" that includes a link to the Android Compatibility Definition Document (CDD)

Starting from page 20

Paragraph 8.9: "Device implementations MUST include a camera."
Paragraph 8.10: "Device implementations MUST include a 3-axis accelerometer and MUST be able to deliver events at 50 Hz or greater."
Paragraph 8.11: "Device implementations MUST include a 3-axis compass"
Paragraph 8.12: "Device implementations MUST include a GPS"

I'd say that hopes for a google certified android on pandora are quite low.

Yeah the Archos 5 didn't have a camera so it wasn't allowed into the regular store and they made there own. The only problem is that it sucked so everyone made a super easy hack to get it working on it. So I don't think that compatabily to the store itself is the problem. I just think that most of us (including me) dosn't have much intrest in it. Besides all apps would be awkward just like on the Archos. Not made for the screen size, wants a multi-touch screen, wants a camera, wants a aceleromator ect. Besides, all the games on there would be crappy or not usable with our super awesom controller. But if some people want to use it go ahead, the pandora is all about choice, I see that there are some obvious advantages, that some of you see. As long as all the development dosn't change to Android, I'm happy.

Plenty of Android phones have 800x480 screens, multitouch isn't needed on most apps, I don't have multitouch on my Android phone and the only thing I haven't been able to use are some games that have onscreen controls that require using 2 fingers at the same time. That would be less of a problem on the Pandora since it has dedicated gaming controls, and by installing an input method for the gaming controls, apps would be able to use them. It probably wouldn't work for all apps, depends on if they have support for alternate input methods, but most should, as that's required to be able to use hardware QWERTY keyboards in games too. Accelerometer is used in quite a few decent games, but you're not really missing out by not being able to play them as they're just time wasters and there's plenty of better games out.

The limitations would have an effect on what you would be able to use from the Android Market, but it would still add a huge library of games and apps to the Pandora. There's a lot of things the Pandora does better than Android, but it doesn't have a lot of games that aren't ports. Being able to run Android apps inside Angstrom would be the best of two worlds.

EDIT:
@pder: As far as apps go, probably not much. There are some good looking 3D games I haven't been able to try because they run like crap on my phone. 2D games are mostly short time wasters and puzzle games, which can be fun, especially on short breaks or when you're waiting for someone, there are some interesting games that are more than just time wasters though. I have only checked a fraction of the Android Market since it's huge, so there's probably quite a few gems hidden in there.

I already have an Android phone so apart from 3D games my phone is uncapable of running, I don't really have any use for Android apps on the Pandora, but for those who don't already have an Android device, there's probably tons of stuff they'd like on the Market. Though my phone's battery life sucks compared to the Pandora so it would still be better to run the apps on that instead of my phone

IMO emulator speed/compatibility (mostly N64/PSX) are higher priority than Android, but Android would be nice too.

 

[tsh]

Could someone that is familiar with Android provide an example of an Android application they would be interested in running on the Pandora? I'm trying to understand what is available for Android in which there is no linux equivalent that would actually run on Pandora hardware.

Maybe a bit of a weak example, but there is a nice app for downloading news items from the BBC website http://jimblackler.net/blog/?p=124
It beats the web interface by being better optimised for a small screen, and will download articles to allow you to read them without having to reply on having a live connection. I can see some value in downloading the news at a set time, over wifi, so you can read it on the train (or whatever). Not particularly difficult to do, but a nice enough example of something which would function fine on the Pandora's hardware. You can do the same with a RSS reader (so long as it caches the full linked articles too).

Other apps I have which might port: deciBel (spl meter), mythmote (for myth-tv) - everything else I have installed is either map/gps, camera, website frontend (like facebook), or phone/calender/mail. It's nice having apps which poll web based services to avoid having to check them regularly - so the Stalker RSS gives me an alert. None of this relies on Android, but the linux desktop community doesn't seem to have done anything useful with widgets. With luck, Android will encourage the ubuntu netbook devs to write some stuff we can use native.

 

[Trickyhero]

(...)
Never say never - we don't even know what the certification rules are. Can the certification be applied to an isolated virtual machine run on the device? We don't know. At this point the whole discussion is hypothetical anyway.(...)

With a quick googling I've found a page on "android compatibility" that includes a link to the Android Compatibility Definition Document (CDD)

Starting from page 20

Paragraph 8.9: "Device implementations MUST include a camera."
Paragraph 8.10: "Device implementations MUST include a 3-axis accelerometer and MUST be able to deliver events at 50 Hz or greater."
Paragraph 8.11: "Device implementations MUST include a 3-axis compass"
Paragraph 8.12: "Device implementations MUST include a GPS"

I'd say that hopes for a google certified android on pandora are quite low.

Yeah the Archos 5 didn't have a camera so it wasn't allowed into the regular store and they made there own. The only problem is that it sucked so everyone made a super easy hack to get it working on it. So I don't think that compatabily to the store itself is the problem. I just think that most of us (including me) dosn't have much intrest in it. Besides all apps would be awkward just like on the Archos. Not made for the screen size, wants a multi-touch screen, wants a camera, wants a aceleromator ect. Besides, all the games on there would be crappy or not usable with our super awesom controller. But if some people want to use it go ahead, the pandora is all about choice, I see that there are some obvious advantages, that some of you see. As long as all the development dosn't change to Android, I'm happy.

Plenty of Android phones have 800x480 screens, multitouch isn't needed on most apps, I don't have multitouch on my Android phone and the only thing I haven't been able to use are some games that have onscreen controls that require using 2 fingers at the same time. That would be less of a problem on the Pandora since it has dedicated gaming controls, and by installing an input method for the gaming controls, apps would be able to use them. It probably wouldn't work for all apps, depends on if they have support for alternate input methods, but most should, as that's required to be able to use hardware QWERTY keyboards in games too. Accelerometer is used in quite a few decent games, but you're not really missing out by not being able to play them as they're just time wasters and there's plenty of better games out.

The limitations would have an effect on what you would be able to use from the Android Market, but it would still add a huge library of games and apps to the Pandora. There's a lot of things the Pandora does better than Android, but it doesn't have a lot of games that aren't ports. Being able to run Android apps inside Angstrom would be the best of two worlds.

EDIT:
@pder: As far as apps go, probably not much. There are some good looking 3D games I haven't been able to try because they run like crap on my phone. 2D games are mostly short time wasters and puzzle games, which can be fun, especially on short breaks or when you're waiting for someone, there are some interesting games that are more than just time wasters though. I have only checked a fraction of the Android Market since it's huge, so there's probably quite a few gems hidden in there.

I already have an Android phone so apart from 3D games my phone is uncapable of running, I don't really have any use for Android apps on the Pandora, but for those who don't already have an Android device, there's probably tons of stuff they'd like on the Market. Though my phone's battery life sucks compared to the Pandora so it would still be better to run the apps on that instead of my phone

IMO emulator speed/compatibility (mostly N64/PSX) are higher priority than Android, but Android would be nice too.

There arn't many good games for my Ipod touch at all, and I'm going to assume that there arn't many for Android either.

 

[Sphinxter]

Dual boot option maybe. Android is pretty, but sluggish on a 600mhz device in my experience.

Me too, Android is nice, and really welcome as dual boot option, but not to be the only OS.

Check out the Odroid. it's an Android OS console.

Yes ODROID is android based console but question is do you have ODROID?
If ever you have are you satisfied?

I have one and my answer is yes, the Odroid-S rocks.

 

[SNESFAN]

Dual boot option maybe. Android is pretty, but sluggish on a 600mhz device in my experience.

Me too, Android is nice, and really welcome as dual boot option, but not to be the only OS.

Check out the Odroid. it's an Android OS console.

Yes ODROID is android based console but question is do you have ODROID?
If ever you have are you satisfied?

I have one and my answer is yes, the Odroid-S rocks.

i have an odroid, the controls suck, but other than that it's pretty solid gaming/mid, no support from community and basically being shunned from gp32x... I lost interest... but it still works and works well

also zodttd just dropped psx4droid less than 24 hours ago... fully capable psx emu for android now

i'm guessing his n64 emu is next

 

[devhace]

I think the important thing would come from being able to remap tilt controls to an analog stick. That'd be AWESOME. It'd make a lot of games loads better.

 

[silverspring]

I might have picked this up wrong, but I am slightly worried about this topic. Why even the thought of Android as the main OS for the Pandora? Am I right in guessing that things have dried up in the software development side and nobody can be bothered developing for Angstrom Pandora software anymore? Sure, Android has stuff out there right now which would appear to make the Pandora more attractive to some people, and from a development point of view it could help speed up the software side of things especially as Android is likely to gain popularity over the coming months with all the ipad style tablets due. BUT - good luck getting the core Android OS on the Pandora in the first place, at least efficiently. Don't expect the games/software to run that well.

The project has unfolded very very slowly over the years. There are still only a "handful" of Pandora out in the wild, yet manufacturing began some time ago. It's getting to frustration point, almost to the point of the Pandora being a box you open, then you suddenly find there's nothing there. The OS in the current form is not the best, wifi does not work properly, and still no flash. There are pnds of the same old tired games slowly appearing, but to be honest can anybody really be bothered packaging them up knowing that most of them aren't that good?

And the thought about running commercial games on the Pandora? Why was that question even asked? Is there simply not enough content, or at least good content for the Pandora actually worth bothering with? There would hardly be a market for commercial games on the Pandora - I'm afraid Nintendo and Sony beat you to it many moons ago.

 

[mali]

A second lol files attempt wouldn't be funny any more.

Craig just asked because he likes to ask things. No need to interpret something that can't be interpreted.

 

[Prometheus]

Am I right in guessing that things have dried up in the software development side and nobody can be bothered developing for Angstrom Pandora software anymore?

No. There are new things showing up every day.

There are pnds of the same old tired games slowly appearing, but to be honest can anybody really be bothered packaging them up knowing that most of them aren't that good?

I'm sorry to once again hear that you don't like older software, but frankly there is actually no "knowing that most of them aren't that good" to it - just because you don't like them, doesn't mean that nobody else does or that nobody else should.

Believe it or not, there are those of us to whom much of this stuff is brand new. Imagine that!

And the thought about running commercial games on the Pandora? Why was that question even asked? Is there simply not enough content, or at least good content for the Pandora actually worth bothering with? There would hardly be a market for commercial games on the Pandora - I'm afraid Nintendo and Sony beat you to it many moons ago.

I think that you're mistaken, and that there's definitely a market for this. Commercial, in fact, means sold for money, not super-mass-market-mass-produced. I seem to recall that (to cite a couple of quick example that springs to mind) Qwak was going to get a Pandora release at some point, as was Caster (maybe they still are - I've got to admit that I sort of lost the thread on both of them). Both of these are commercial titles, and to my knowledge actually aren't available on the bigger consoles. I have my wallet waiting for both of them, and I doubt that I'm the only one.

(And there was also that chatter about possibly licensing some other titles, as well, a while back, much like the original GamePark did with the GP32, and much like occurred with the Gizmondo...)

 

[Aninhumer]

I might have picked this up wrong, but I am slightly worried about this topic. Why even the thought of Android as the main OS for the Pandora? Am I right in guessing that things have dried up in the software development side and nobody can be bothered developing for Angstrom Pandora software anymore?

Development hasn't dried up so much as not been drilled properly yet.

 

[lulzfish]

I might have picked this up wrong, but I am slightly worried about this topic. Why even the thought of Android as the main OS for the Pandora? Am I right in guessing that things have dried up in the software development side and nobody can be bothered developing for Angstrom Pandora software anymore?

Development hasn't dried up so much as not been drilled properly yet.

Yeah, dried up? I haven't even ordered my Pandora yet, much less given up on Angstrom. Much much less decided to use Android. (again, I don't think android has qt, I don't want a platform without qt)
And my, er... 'game' is not ready at all. Just got raycasting going yesterday, it's pretty sweet, now I can make the collision detection smarter and make projectile weapons. There will probably be some gameplay at some point, too!

 

[SNESFAN]

i'm trying to build aosp from source, learning a whole lot in the process, first time building anything from source so take from that what you will.

after I can do a successful make I'm going to try and merge 0xdroid and cyanogen somehow? (best of android on beagle board & best of the custom android scene)

0xdroid -android on begelboard
http://gitorious.org/0xdroid/

cyanogenmod -best custom android builds
http://github.com/cyanogen/cm-kernel-experimental

how to build android from source
http://source.android.com/source/download.html

openpandora git hub
http://git.openpandora.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi

I may never get it to work, but I'm gonna try

 

[Prometheus]

i'm trying to build aosp from source, learning a whole lot in the process, first time building anything from source so take from that what you will.

I take that as gutsy, myself - I hope you get it working. Best of luck.

I remember the first time I built something from source (a conscious decision made during my first day using Linux, not something I actually needed to do) - it was nothing as big as Android, though, it was just a very old emulator and an incredibly outdated front-end for it that didn't work. :lol:

 

[SNESFAN]

i'm trying to build aosp from source, learning a whole lot in the process, first time building anything from source so take from that what you will.

I take that as gutsy, myself - I hope you get it working. Best of luck.

I remember the first time I built something from source (a conscious decision made during my first day using Linux, not something I actually needed to do) - it was nothing as big as Android, though, it was just a very old emulator and an incredibly outdated front-end for it that didn't work. :lol:

it's better try and fail than not to have tried at all

even if you're biting off more than you can chew :gulp:

did someone say there was a omap emulator or something like a virtual pc or something of the sort so i can test whatever I come up with out?

 

[achan]

Consider:

The Pandora should move to Android to get real commercial software and games - plus it's only a matter of time before someone else releases an Android games console (which works well), Pandora should be first.

Discuss...

Please ignore the nattering neighbobs of negativity here. They're the only ones incentivized enough to post. When I originally heard the idea, I was pleased at the prospect, and didn't feel the need to take to the forums to heatedly attack the idea. Like with so many other things, you only hear from the extremes. Checking up on the discussion a week later, I was pretty upturned at how terribly it's gone.

First of all, Pandora can OBVIOUSLY access the android marketplace. Android is an open platform: there are no fundental restrictions on it. Even I can download Marketplace APKs from my webbrowser. Obviously pandora could obtain a marketplace wrapper of it's own. The regulations quoted somewhere are Guidelines, plain and simple. Complying with them is necessary to become a Google-certified Android device, not an android device proper. There is no submission or whoring out to google software; that is a perceived hallucination by someone familiar with Apple's autocratic policies.

Becoming an android-powered device would enable pandora to access the plethora of games available to android devices. Zodttd is working on psx4android, something not even the pandora emulation community has been able to attain. As anyone who's worked with android would know (I've worked on porting in in several projects), there is no such thing as an Android "client" atop another mobile OS (at least not one that wants any fractional semblance of speed). The demanding android games push even the highest end mobile processors to the absolute limit, and that is on top of an Android-native device. But when the result is a flawless psx4android or n64android, then no ones left complaining.

Moving pandora to android will enable it to tap into and contribute to a vast market of games and apps to extend its functionality and garanteeing its continuance into the next generation of handheld gaming devices.

 

[Prometheus]

Zodttd is working on psx4android, something not even the pandora emulation community has been able to attain.

Just a quick note, but the Pandora does have Zodttd's psx4pandora.

 

[mali]

Like with so many other things, you only hear from the extremes. Checking up on the discussion a week later, I was pretty upturned at how terribly it's gone.

The poll results were pretty clear

Becoming an android-powered device would enable pandora to access the plethora of games available to android devices.

Those who are happy with those "qualtity" games wouldn't have a problem moving to Android, I suppose. Those of us who want an UMPC would look elsewhere then.

 

[Prometheus]

I only just noticed this after making my previous post, so please pardon me, but I feel a need to quote again.

Please ignore the nattering neighbobs of negativity here. They're the only ones incentivized enough to post.

These "nattering neighbobs" you refer to are paying customers, who purchased a device that was not Android-based - in some cases going out of their way to do so. Some of these folks have even worked on applications for this device for a couple of years now. Ignoring one's paying customers probably isn't a good idea.

Those who are happy with those "qualtity" games wouldn't have a problem moving to Android, I suppose. Those of us who want an UMPC would look elsewhere then.

Well, I play video games, and I have no interest in Android or anything it has to offer, personally. I would have to look elsewhere, too. (As I said before, if it had been an Android device to begin with, I wouldn't have given it a second look. It just doesn't suit my needs.)