Pandora Not Powerful Enough?

[jabz]

I just hope that in a years or 6 months time we first batcher's will be offered an upgraded board, if technically inclined to install into our Pandora's. As long as the board is the same with upgraded CPU, MEM, GPU etc..
I would be willing to shell out some $ to be able to do this.

 

[Zor Prime]

I just hope that in a years or 6 months time we first batcher's will be offered an upgraded board, if technically inclined to install into our Pandora's. As long as the board is the same with upgraded CPU, MEM, GPU etc..
I would be willing to shell out some $ to be able to do this.

It would be very nice if we could swap out the Pandora motherboards and replace them with new boards in the future, for at least one iteration.

The case is making the Pandora obsolete before it even hits the shelves. A new board should be lightning quick to bring around compared to the case - and then we may get to enjoy at least for a week having the "best of the best".

 

[Nintendo]

Pandora isn't a desktop PC, you know.

 

[WizardStan]

I just hope that in a years or 6 months time we first batcher's will be offered an upgraded board, if technically inclined to install into our Pandora's. As long as the board is the same with upgraded CPU, MEM, GPU etc..
I would be willing to shell out some $ to be able to do this.

It would be very nice if we could swap out the Pandora motherboards and replace them with new boards in the future, for at least one iteration.

The case is making the Pandora obsolete before it even hits the shelves. A new board should be lightning quick to bring around compared to the case - and then we may get to enjoy at least for a week having the "best of the best".

Craig is on record as saying that Pandora 2 will have the same form factor and case, so I imagine an upgrade will be easy peasy (with the right knowledge and a steady hand) but that will not be 6 months to a year. More like 18 months to 2 years, I imagine.

 

[Awakening]

I also thought over the Pandora 2 some more, and the screen actually couldn't get any bigger. It can get wider, but I don't know if that would really be *better*. So I'm all for Pandora 2 just getting a PCB enhancement. Maybe use the breakout cable (if possible) for HDMI (if OMAP4xxx has a secondary Digital output nm, I see the sheet and it does support HDMI out.)

The Nintendo DSi XL will be 8.4 x 21 mm larger then the Pandora. I have printed out a full scale Pandora myself and I would say that a slightly larger one would be nice. Except more power a larger screen is what I want the most out of a Pandora 2. Why? Because when using it for things other then games you want as high a resolution as possible, it has even been proven that larger screens increases productivity. You can have more on the screen at the same time and you have to scroll less etc. Surfing the web would be easier with a wider screen. A wider keyboard makes typing with your fingers easier and if the Pandora was 10 mm taller you could add 1 more row of keys which would allow you to get a more normal keyboard.

I would not expect another Pandora the next 2-3 years. You want to get as many as possible sold of each generation to cover the cost of development. Also, if new Pandoras are released too often people will be less likely to buy one since their investment only lasts so long.

 

[Nintendo]

The Nintendo DSi XL will be 8.4 x 21 mm larger then the Pandora. I have printed out a full scale Pandora myself and I would say that a slightly larger one would be nice. Except more power a larger screen is what I want the most out of a Pandora 2. Why? Because when using it for things other then games you want as high a resolution as possible, it has even been proven that larger screens increases productivity.

Yeah, my productivity has indeed increased when surfing the web and playing games via my DSi XL.

Also, can I have the file of that 'actual size' Pandora image?

 

[Monk]

It would be very nice if we could swap out the Pandora motherboards and replace them with new boards in the future, for at least one iteration.

The case is making the Pandora obsolete before it even hits the shelves. A new board should be lightning quick to bring around compared to the case - and then we may get to enjoy at least for a week having the "best of the best".

It certainly would be nice, and while I agree tha tthe Pandora is less stunning/attractive than it was 2 years ago, I'm not sure that it is approaching obsolesence in the VERY near future. As a basis for this, consider not other UMPCs but other consoles - to be honest ordinary consoles like the XBOX (we JUST bought an XBOX 360 because our original black XBOX seems to be on its last legs) or portables like the DS and the PSP. How long does a "generation" of portable - the oriignal DS, or especially the PSP - last before it has a MAJOR revision (I'm not even sure if the DS Lite could be considered a new version in this sense, as it's not got the kind of power increase that we generally associate with going from an old PC to a new one, or an old house-based game console to a new one).

When the Pandora was announced, yes - it was a LOT sexier than that same spec is now, 2 years later. right now, instead of being "bleeding edge", the Pandora internals (the circuit board, not the inginuity of the overall design) are more-or-less on par with other offerings coming out around now - the recent iPhone 3GS being the most commonly mentioned sibling, but there are others too, from Nokia and Archos and more IIRC). So insteda of "bleeding edge", the hard tech is, IMHO, not "obsolete" but actually "current generation", if you will - from the "at point of retail" point of view, at least.

The PSP2 is coming. I expect that by the time the PSP3 arrives, assuming such a beast comes to pass, THEN the Pandora really will be old tech and obsolete. At least the "hard tech" will be - but like my faithful (till now) XBOX, it may yet prove to actually do its job for some time afterwards. Especailly within the realms of retro gaming and emulation (obviously, it won't emulate a PSP2 without a serious upgrade, but what it emulates in 6 months it should still be capable of emulating in 6 years).

If OpenPandora can keep going to produce a new product to follow on in 5 years, I doubt that would be too long a lifespan for Pandora1 for most users. If it comes sooner, Pandora1 will sTILL be able to do what it could do at release. Hopefully, either way, a Pandora 2 would be far enough in the future for it to use a SOC that hasn't been announced yet, making all the Pandora 1 performance quibbles moot - as it should blow Pandora1 out of the water IMHO. It STILL won't be able to emulate home-bound consoles of the day though, as those will hopefully have evolved too

 

[Monk]

Except more power a larger screen is what I want the most out of a Pandora 2.

I've been thinking that too, and I wondered - just how practical might it be to put a projector in a portable gaming system as the default "screen"? I see good and bad points, but it seems to me it might be an intersting way to get whatever size screen you want. Incorporate some of the virtual keyboard" tech and you could have a touch screen wall...? there are walls and wall-like surfaces everywhere, though privacy would be shot to pieces.

 

[Awakening]

Yeah, my productivity has indeed increased when surfing the web and playing games via my DSi XL.

Also, can I have the file of that 'actual size' Pandora image?

You need higher resolution and do something productive to increase productivity

I didn't keep the file but you can download photos from OPs website then adjust the perspective, crop and scale them to the correct sizes in Photoshop (use print size) and they will be printed accurately.

 

[WizardStan]

Or you can just use this
That's what I used to make my paper model. I played it for hours until I broke the hinge

edit: wait, no. This one is the template I used to make my paper model, although I'm sure the first one would work as well.

 

[Asmo]

I wondered - just how practical might it be to put a projector in a portable gaming system as the default "screen"?

The (similarly still in the Oven) Microvision Laser-based projection engine is teeny. It would be great for surfing the web, watching videos or gaming on the ceiling as you lie in bed!
For daylight use there could be pop-up a rear-projection panel.

This prospect makes me dribble.

 

[Nintendo]

Thanks, Wiz and Awake.

Thanks to you two, I'm going to start playing my Pandora tonight. *builds Paper Pandora* andora2ut4: B)

 

[Monk]

I wondered - just how practical might it be to put a projector in a portable gaming system as the default "screen"?

The (similarly still in the Oven) Microvision Laser-based projection engine is teeny. It would be great for surfing the web, watching videos or gaming on the ceiling as you lie in bed!
For daylight use there could be pop-up a rear-projection panel.

This prospect makes me dribble.

Mmmm, that's pretty much exacty what I was thinking of.... yum!

 

[Asmo]

I wondered - just how practical might it be to put a projector in a portable gaming system as the default "screen"?

The (similarly still in the Oven) Microvision Laser-based projection engine is teeny. It would be great for surfing the web, watching videos or gaming on the ceiling as you lie in bed!
For daylight use there could be pop-up a rear-projection panel.

This prospect makes me dribble.

Mmmm, that's pretty much exacty what I was thinking of.... yum!

Of course for stability it would have to have a detcacheable wireless controller. Any movement of the console itself would be greatly magnified on a projected image, so the main unit would sit on the bedside table. And it would have to be a controller that would survive being slept on accidentally. Frequently.

 

[Esn]

@Kangal: The Pandora team's reticence to aim at the mass market may be explained by the roots of this community being in the GP32 and later the GP2X handhelds. A lot of people here made the assumption for the GP32 and the GP2X that "this device is so much better than the existing ones! As soon as the general public hears about it, it'll get mass appeal!"), but it never happened. Instead, the companies that made these two devices remained small, but stable and profitable, and the community remained not-too-big but pretty happy.

I think that's the goal for this time around, too.

 

[Kangal]

Pandora isn't a desktop PC, you know.

I guess the reason why I was really interested in the Pandora was to see a platform that combined a handheld gaming device with a personal computer.
I thought with all this new "nm" technology being developed i thought it would be possible to see one that is powerful, effecient and portable.
I'm more into hi-graphics games than classic ones (but classic is good every now and again).

I was pretty impressed with the PSP when it came out but grew to sort of disliking it. So I never bought one.
Why not another nub?
Why not R2 and L2 buttons?
Why not TFT multi-touchscreen? = briter & more functional screen
Why not make it slide screen that tilts and locks like the N97? = more screen size, tilting allows fingers better access to L1,L2,R1,R2 buttons
Why not ditch the UMD for SD slot = SD slot because there are devices that can be connected via an SD slot (eg SD-GPS receivers in 2005)
Why not add a large RAM and HDD?
Why not make it more portable/comfortable in your pocket?
Why not add bluetooth with connectivity to other PSP (multiplayer) and other devices (eg ps3 controller)?
Why not have a light OS that supports other OS software and has a mouse on screen? = essentially Linux

WHY? ... if you purposely leave areas of improvement, you can make more versions of the device and update it more often ... = MORE MONEY (Corporate thinking)
I thought the Pandora team had a similar focus.

 

[Exophase]

I think what you might not understand is that Open Pandora isn't capable of designing custom processors and system cores like most game consoles and handhelds have been able to. They don't have the money, time, or workforce to accomplish this. They have to use off the shelf parts and the manufacturing process overall takes them longer because they don't have the resources nor the corporate relationships that many large companies have. Making a device that blows away all other portables is just not possible. They did get a leg up by getting access to OMAP3530 slightly before others due to TI taking particular interest, but this just gave them maybe a few months before everyone could get the chip, and evaluate it for very cheap too.

All that aside, I think you could use a reality check when in comes to devices in general.. people label hardware companies like Sony as greedy, but the fact is that there's a surprisingly fine line between making a lot of profit and not making enough money to continue putting the thing out on the market at all. Sony has been straddling that line for a while.

To address everything you said about them:

Why not another nub?
Why not R2 and L2 buttons?

Because these things cost money and moreover take precious real estate in a market where size is an extremely important factor. People already think PSP is too big. Compare it to the previous generation, GBA, which only had two face buttons - a direction DS almost repeated. There's a precedence for having less buttons on a space constrained handheld, for a good reason.

Why not TFT multi-touchscreen? = briter & more functional screen

Wow, get real.. PSP was out way before iPhone was, you blame them for not coming up with the idea first? Maybe you want them to charge several hundred more like iPhone, for a device that MUST cost less than $300 to be successful? Hindsight sure is vindictive. And PSP's screen isn't BRIGHT enough? Is anything good enough for you? PSP's highest screen brightness is very bright, but people usually don't use it to save battery life. So you want an even more battery draining setting??

Why not make it slide screen that tilts and locks like the N97? = more screen size, tilting allows fingers better access to L1,L2,R1,R2 buttons

Because these designs are complex and expensive and seriously increase time to market. It also makes the design more fragile, which is not good for a gaming handheld that needs to take a good amount of abuse. Of course, Sony was eventually going in this direction with the PSP Go.

Why not ditch the UMD for SD slot = SD slot because there are devices that can be connected via an SD slot (eg SD-GPS receivers in 2005)

First of all, PSP has Memory Stick Pro Duo; SD would be redundant. Why Memory Stick Pro Duo? Because it's Sony's format of course, they're not going to abandon their own format. They were probably hoping the price margin wouldn't have turned out like it, but they also wanted Memory Stick Pro Duo because it's faster and for their purposes, more secure. About UMD - again you're being rash with hindsight, but it's moot since they've already went that direction with PSP Go, which has proven a big mistake. Obviously Sony was a) expecting that the larger media size would be more important than it was (and why not, it certainly was when it came to PS1 vs N64) and B) trying to push media like UMD movies. It was a gamble and it failed. They don't have a crystal ball in their office, they WILL make mistakes that they couldn't have possibly prevented.

Why not add a large RAM and HDD?

Cost, obviously. But HDDs are also battery guzzlers and take a LOT more space, even the smallest ones.

Why not make it more portable/comfortable in your pocket?

You want all these extra things and want it to be smaller?

Why not add bluetooth with connectivity to other PSP (multiplayer) and other devices (eg ps3 controller)?

It has WiFi for PSP connectivity. Connecting a PS3 controller to a PSP has extremely limited appeal.

Why not have a light OS that supports other OS software and has a mouse on screen? = essentially Linux

A.. mouse.. what? Why have a cursor on the screen for something that doesn't use a mouse? How do you "support other OS software"? Things don't work that way, even if it had something like Linux it'd never run stock Linux software without being recompiled, and Sony wouldn't have opened the platform. They didn't open it because they didn't want to open the doors to piracy - which anyone can see that PSP hacking has led to. Yes, it was an inevitability, but delaying it can be the difference between commercial life and death. They probably weren't comfortable with the security of any open, unlike on PS3 (which has to this date proven effective).

Anyway, Pandora DOES have a lot of the things you want so yeah, there you go.

 

[EmuGuy]

When OP first chose to use a TI chip the 3530 wasn't even officially available. OMAP3430 (which as far as I'm aware is identical) was announced, but you couldn't get any yet. Naturally something better than 3530 wouldn't have been available. I don't even know if it's possible to order anything better.

THIS. Thank you for laying it out in plain English. How could it even be possible for Pandora to be faster than parts that didn't exist when it was designed? ...it's very strange some people continue to argue this (although discussing Pandora 2 in "Other Consoles" or "Off Topic" is welcome). Not only that, but it likely would have added who knows how much $$$ to the price of the Pandora. I'm sure the team wanted to keep the costs reasonable...otherwise they could have added a dishwasher and bucket seats. It's like the people who want it to have an OLED screen...yeah, sure it could have one...for a lot more money (at the time, and probably still).

I recall the early days when they announced the Pandora had gained Bluetooth, because it was easy enough to drop it right into the design (similar enough to the wifi chip they were already using, or something like that). I would guess that's a little easier than dropping a new SoC in (again, one that wasn't available yet). A similar bonus happened when they doubled the size of the NAND. We're already getting a better device than the 'original' Pandora! B)

Also (rant mode ON), surely the logical thing for people who want PSP's and PSP2's and iPhones is to just buy those devices! If PSP/iPhone games have value for you, then they're worth plunking down your cash for. When you actually buy the platform hardware/software you want to support...then chances are you will see more devices and more games from those companies. Or have the basic concepts of commerce completely changed since I went to bed last night?

I have an iPod Touch (which I bought while waiting for Pandora), I use it every day for various things, and I don't mind dropping a couple bucks on the odd touchscreen time waster puzzle game...BUT anything that needs a proper joystick or d-pad will be a helluva lot better on Pandora. Not to mention a real keyboard for gaming, web, email, notes, and anything else you can use a real keyboard for. Pandora will stomp the GP2X for the keyboard alone, plus more power, screen, battery life, clam shell, sleep mode etc. I have a GP2X MarkII and was very happy with it for two years. But the battery life is shameful, as is the d-pad. But I'm glad I bought it, as it introduced me to this community...for better or worse, some days.

Pandora is coming folks, we're really close now...and maybe a PSP2 is coming, and you know a new iPhone is coming every year...there's plenty of room for everybody, there is no ONE device to rule them all. If you want those, buy 'em. You're allowed to own more than one. But why wait two years for a device that doesn't do what you want? That's crazy.

Also, this isn't a huge corporation putting millions of R&D and 3rd party support into Pandora. This is a few like-minded hobbyists, who share a common goal of creating the best open source driven handheld. And if you don't think it takes Big Gaming Company years to develop their next system, think again. Plus they'd develop a bunch of different concepts at once, and market the one with the least amount of problems (except for MS' XBox360) . Big companies experience the same delays, mistakes, deadlines, and problems OP has...they just don't blog about it and share the emails from the manufacturers.

Only when Pandora is finally in our hands, will we discover the truth. It'll either be fast enough for you, or it won't. Actually, it'll become 'faster' over time as developers are able to optimize software for it. It's fast enough for me, but I just want a portable C64, Amiga & Genesis. Anything beyond that is a huge bonus, or exists on another device. Pandora doesn't have a camera either, but I know people want one for Pandora 2. There is no perfect device. Say it with me now: "There is no perfect device." See, don't we feel better now? (rant mode OFF here, I suppose)

 

[pelrun]

Why not add X,Y,Z,toilet,go-faster stripes

Uh, that's part of the design process. You have to make choices between features, cost, and availability of components. Oh, and actually getting something to market rather than going the Duke Nukem Forever route and never releasing at all.

This seems to be the sort of thing you're asking for: (yes, I just wanted to post this again )

 

[Kangal]

Why not add X,Y,Z,toilet,go-faster stripes

Uh, that's part of the design process. You have to make choices between features, cost, and availability of components. Oh, and actually getting something to market rather than going the Duke Nukem Forever route and never releasing at all.

This seems to be the sort of thing you're asking for: (yes, I just wanted to post this again )

(In Cartman's voice)
Wow, dignity protector? Thats impressive.

HAHAHAH lol applause to your console design. Just made my day!