Pandora "keyboard Edition"


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PlopperZ said:
Do you have any clue what you're talking about?
It surely isn't a "minor redesign".
You would have to redesign the board!

It's stupid to want to pay more (which you would) for a different model with less features and lower compatibility.
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Do you have any clue what your talking about? Maybe you do know more about PCB manufacturing and design than I do but I'm primarily directing this question at mweston, I just thought I'd do it openly to see if anyone else on this board would be interested in such a model.

Less features? Not really. This would have a better keyboard which would be much better for those who wanted to do serious stuff on the Pandora and if you did want to play the occasional game you'd plug your joypad in. Its catering for a different user. If you mainly or often wanted to play games you'd obviously buy Pandora normal model.

Lower compatibility- no it wouldn't. It would have perfect compatibility with the normal Pandora, you just might need to use a USB pad for some Pandora specific stuff but this could be got around by with keyboard shortcuts.

Why would it cost more? Do you have anything to base this claim on? Yes, a re-design would be required of course but it really would not be like starting from scratch. Maybe mweston will tell me otherwise but you don't know.

Finally, and this is a very important point to keep in mind in this discussion, is that the people who browse and post to this forum do NOT form a good cross-section of the 'average computer user'. Most of the people on this forum are ex (or current) GP32/GP2X users or devs and thus their primary interest is gaming and emulation. Very few outside of this community are even aware of the Pandora, but that should all change after launch. This is why a lot of people on here are adverse to my suggestion. Your average computer user just wants to browse the web, type some letters, download/copy/play music and films and not much else beyond that really. Having a full keyboard would greatly improve the ease of performing these tasks without resorting to an external keyboard, at which point it is no longer a pocket-sized portable- which is its big pulling power over a MID device or laptop.

Jeez, you come on here asking a perfectly innocent question or make a suggestion and people act like you've called their mum. Chill, please!
 
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You know those dev boards that you've seen the photos of? Each one of those cost over $1000 to make. The initial pandora PCB cost around $10,000 to make and populate. Each case revsion costs thousands of dollars. You're talking a major redesign of the entire back of the board, which would necessitate all these things being redone, and the pandora is being made by a small company, not nintendo or sony.

You keep asking the same thing over and over, and then just re-ask it when you dont get the answer you'd like. Its not going to happen.

As an alternative, you could maybe make a new top case for the pandora, use a membrane-type keyboard layered over the original pandora PCB, and hook it up to the contacts for the original keyboard, but it'd be VERY difficult to do within the clearance of the pandora's case, and with it still closing!
 
@danboid

You don't seem to be asking a question, rather you seem to be starting a debate.

You come to a forum for people interested in an arm based gaming mid and tell them that the gaming controls (which are absent in any other umpc and mid designs currently AFAIK) should be removed and that seemed like a good idea to you?

Buy a umpc or stick to your Zaurus if the pandora design doesn't suit you.

EDIT: And after reading parag0ns post, I must say that even a larger better funded company wouldn't do a drastic redesign to suit a completely different user base.
 
parag0n:

You too can make up situations all you like but until craigix or mweston posts to this thread and says "No Way" or words to such effect then this is still a valid and open thread/ proposition.

Besides, even Craig and mweston don't know how popular Pandora will turn out to be and what people will use it for. What if most reviewers and customers complain about the limited keyboard and say they'd much rather have the same device but with no joypad but better keyboard? Are you saying there is no likelyhood of this happening?

If you re-read my original post you will notice that I suggested the keyboard edition would only be viable anyway if there was enough interest in it. There may actually be MORE interest in a Keyboard edition Pandora outside of these forums and so a redesign would be well worth their effort.
 
sold said:
@danboid

You don't seem to be asking a question, rather you seem to be starting a debate.

You come to a forum for people interested in an arm based gaming mid and tell them that the gaming controls (which are absent in any other umpc and mid designs currently AFAIK) should be removed and that seemed like a good idea to you?

Buy a umpc or stick to your Zaurus if the pandora design doesn't suit you.

EDIT: And after reading parag0ns post, I must say that even a larger better funded company wouldn't do a drastic redesign to suit a completely different user base.
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I asked a question of the Pandora devs openly and then I got attacked by the naysayers wanting to piss on my parade.Yes, its my fault for taking their bait but to say there is NO market for such a device would be silly.

You are twisting my words too as my original post wasn't suggesting they make ANY changes to the Pandora as it is but instead compliment it with a keyboard model Is that OK with you?

The nearest to what I'm asking for is the HTC Uni and the Zaurus cxxxx models but these platforms are very much outdated by the superior innards of the Pandora. I'm not an electronic engineer and so I cannot just make my own as some have been suggesting.
 
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Ok - everyone please calm down (the irony of me saying that is not lost on me).

I understand danboid's request. I'd like it (I'd *REALLY* like it) if someone could point to an existing product that is close to what danboid's "keyboard edition" of the Pandora would look like. Requirements - at least 500 Mhz, small enough to fit in your pocket, runs Linux, or some other hackable, replaceable OS, has a 4 - 6 inch touch screen, full QWERTY keyboard, WiFi, USB host, and either expandable storage or at least 8 GB of built-in storage... Oh, it has to cost less than $500.

The closest I know of is the Nokia N-Series Internet tablets. But they are not as fast as the Pandora - and the ones that have keyboards are not as big as a clamshell model could be. Then there's the Fujitsu Lifebooks - but they cost $1000 or more - run Windows - and weigh about 3 times as much as a DS, (and I think the Pandora will weigh a little more than a DS - but not even twice as much as the DS does).

Maybe the fact that there are not more things like this means there's no market - or maybe it just because no one has taken the chance yet - Asus took the chance and invented the netbook market. Maybe the Pandora will open the market, and non-gaming pocket-sized netbooks will follow - IDK. Or maybe the next-gen Internet Tablets will have better keyboards.

I do know this, though, danboid. Making the game-less model you are asking for is not as easy as you think - just like making the keyboard-less model wasn't as easy as those who asked for it thought. The keyboard *is* built onto the motherboard, I doubt so many people on this forum would swear it was without some kind of reason. Remaking the motherboard, and the case, and the keyboard.... You're basically making a new device at that point. Which, if someone wants to do that - they are free to do so. I've actually asked the beagleboard group if anyone was working on a netbook device based on the beagleboard. I didn't get much of a response, so if someone is, they are keeping it quiet.

I'd think within the next 3 to 5 years - you'll see all kinds of powerful devices that can fit in your pocket. The creation of Atom, the success of the Eee clones, the tons of UMPCs/MIDs/PMPs/OMGWTFBBQCOPTERs, ... heck, just the fact that there are so many marketing buzzwords to describe these kinds of devices., that points to it being a trend. Smartphones getting smarter... Give it some time, and you'll have your pocketable netbook.

Or, you could just get pants with bigger pockets. I actually did fit my Eee PC in my pocket. I wasn't wearing them at the time, but it got in there. ;) :lol: :huh: :ph34r:
 
I posted a link above to a clamshell mid. Looks like what danboid might be looking for.
 
I would've preferred a full keyboard, too. Anyway, we can't tell now how it'll turn out.
Anyway, I guess it is easy to remap all game controls (except analogue nubs) to missing keyboard keys. That'll be 10 more keys.
*might tug a big fat keyboard around anyway, though*
 
sold:

That looks interesting. What is it though? Anyone got any specs?

chad78: Thanks for the first posting in this thread that wasn't just totally dissing my idea. You'd think I'd suggested we replace the Pandora with a Z80 CPU and run Vista on it or something! :)
 
I don't know anything about that mid, but it looks real cool. And pocket sized. I think there will be a few more devices coming out soon that will be similar as well.

Pandora is the only thing I've seen with gaming controls though.
 
Shame you don't know any more about it, but I can almost guarantee there'll be some big drawback, like it'll be running Win mobile, won't have USB2 host or something. This has been the case for years and years. Many Psion users defected to the Zaurus cxxxx and although the hardware was top-notch at the time it sadly never saw a flawless, officially supported X11-based distro. The Pandora "keyboard edition" could quite easily capture all these (ex) Zaurus and Psion owners who want something more powerful that will be stable and well supported and runs Linux/X11 by default.

As has already been mentioned, portable computing is the new in-thing for the big tech manufacturers and Linux is making great progress wrt the desktop and with big hardware manufacturers announcing full (or much improved) Linux support on a weekly basis. I too believe that the Pandora could well bust open a whole new market and it CANNOT be that long until I get what I've wanted for SOOOOOO long now- a fully usable STABLE Linux/X11 environment that fits in my pocket. Zaurus came VERY close to this, offering all but the stability.
 
With the new x86 mid devices coming out, i think you could run linux instead of windows if that was your preference. I saw a video interview with an intel rep saying you could run any os you want (linux, xp,). But price and battery life may still be big issues imho.
 
If you want a handheld without gaming controls you have to go somewhere else. Because you've come to the wrong place looking for a non gaming device. This is a forum for open gaming handhelds. People seem to forget that. You should count yourself lucky that this even has a keyboard at all :rolleyes:
 
What danboid suggests is basically the same as the Zaurus series, which were a commercial failure even with a big company behind them.

The idea as such isn´t that bad, but you´re asking the wrong people. The Pandora is a device made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts who are techsavy, into open source and willing to buy an underdog device from a company that has no name. But the target demographic of the proposed "keyboard edition" contains very few of such enthusiasts.
 
danboid said:
PS Before anyone comes out with "Yeah but who would want to use a keyboard that small to do any serious work?"- ME! I want a truly portable device to do Linux stuff on, with no external keyboard or silly key-combos required. On top of that I know exactly how usable keyboards of that size are through having owned 2 Zauruses and almost all the Psion models.
Click to expand...

Try a wibrain?

http://www.wibrain.com/
 
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Fishbong said:
What danboid suggests is basically the same as the Zaurus series, which were a commercial failure even with a big company behind them.

The idea as such isn´t that bad, but you´re asking the wrong people. The Pandora is a device made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts who are techsavy, into open source and willing to buy an underdog device from a company that has no name. But the target demographic of the proposed "keyboard edition" contains very few of such enthusiasts.
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Fishbong:

The Zaurus, despite its great hardware, could've been MUCH more successful than it was but it was prevented from succeding because:

* Sharp didn't understand the open source community AT ALL ("Why would people want the source code?")

* It was too highly priced for most

*The good (cxxxx) models were never officially released outside of Japan

* The Zaurus only ever shipped with qtopia not X11 and so had a very limited selection of apps

* Maybe most importantly Sharp put ZERO effort into supporting or promoting the platform- it was really just a fancy display unit for their screen technoogy.

Pandora has none of these problems

Magicpants:

I have absolutely no interest in the wibrain or any UMPC/MID that doesn't fit in your pocket and is a non-clamshell design. Clamshell is the only way to go! Seeing as I want great battery life and I don't really care for XP, I actually prefer ARM for these things.
 
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First of all, the pandora's keyboard will definately be very useful IHMO. :) . If the pandora never had a keyboard, it is possible I wouldn't have chosen to get a pandora at all.

Here's an odd alternative btw -- just as a thought, nothing more. How's about producing a "nostalgia computer" (not portable)? What I mean is a system that is a pandora but in its own case and keyboard - similar to all those old 8-bit systems from the 80s (in looks). It might in theroy sell well if emulators could run on it; a little bit of nostalgia for those who remember the C64s and ZX spectrums of the 80s!

There is a system (though it is just a motherboard) like this called the commodore one but developement on it is *very* slow. And right now, it costs about 269 euros. Or then there's the minimig :) !

ljones
 
Wouldn't just be easier to just map the Dpad and other controller buttons to do what ever you want? Just saying.

Oh and i'm new to this board, this is my 1st post. so hello everyone.
 
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