Pandora Interface Design Concept(s).


doesnt the natural oil excretion from your skin eventually ruin the screen? (i'll probably use my finger/thumbs on hte screen, but with a screen protector) it would be cool if it came with a wrist strap like the DS that has a thumb cover for use on the touch screen.

EDIT: spelling
 
I'd vote for something similar to the iPhone/iPod Touch's interface. Example video. A simple desktop, with the support of multiple layouts, that can be edited easily.

Fingerprints never bothered me with the iPod Touch. They can be seen clearly when the device is off. But when it's on, you have to look at it in a very weird angle to actually notice them.
 
One of the more interesting things I've been having issues with in designing an interface was the lack of a right mouse button, and the fact that a 'click' and a 'mousemove' are pretty much identical, thus, either we need to get rid of the 'mouse' cursor entirely and thus have a 'tap and whatever button is under the tap is being activated' style interface, or we need to emulate a mouse somehow. Obviously, the advantages of 'mouse emulation' are that you are allowed some extra freedom, such as 'tooltips' and showing information based on the position of the mouse. It's probably better, though, to go for a mouseless interface.

How do some of the existing interfaces handle the mouse, though? Do they emulate it, or not care about things such as tooltips?

As a sidenote, porting applications might not be insanely easy, since most applications might rely on a mouse being present.
Hacky softwarematic fix (doing this in the firmware of the Pandora would be very muchly so awesome): hold FN to enable mouse emulation, laptop 'touchpad' style (sweep to move cursor, tap to click), and FN+CTRL (or an easy-to-use-FN keybomco) emulates a rightclick.

One of the reasons why I wanted to design my own little interface, is that I think that currently existing interfaces will not be able to fully implement a lot of neat things you can do with a custom interface, and because I think that the Pandora would benefit from a more 'constole-styled' interface (as opposed to a 'PC-styled' interface which tags an application to a window), but one which uses some Linuxy standards at some parts to allow for existing applications to be ported over easilly. I'm probably making a fool of myself with my limited Linux knowledge, but whenever I myself am using Linux, I'm kind of amazed at all the groundworks that have been laid for little applications that do a very basic task to depend upon. I myself love all these little dials and statistics thingies I can use (droplets? docklets?) whilst using Fluxbox or Ubuntu's default window environment thingamajig (What are they called, anyways? Windowmanager? I'm never really sure wether X is the WM, or GNOME is..).

Interesting dialogs with a Pandora user, told from/by the Pandora itself:

"Oh, you want to have the weather shown somewhere on a little icon? Here you go, just configure the weather icon, okay? There. Now whenever you look at the main Interface, you'll know what the weather outside is, and will be if you hold your emulated mouse over it! Fancy staying inside, but afraid that your mother will ask you what the weather was today just to check up to see if you have even been outside today, and too bored to open the curtains? Now you know that it SNOWED today! Try doing that with a PSP or any other non-pda handheld: you'll have to open up some tool that takes ages too boot up! I'm the Pandora. I can do nifty things like this."

"Hey there, fella! Looks like you were just playing some awesomely classic Commodore 64 games on VICEDORA, the Pandora ported version of the VICE emulator, and wanted to check the time, so you went to look at the Main Pandora Interface. Well, the time is 13:37, but I think there is something else you might be interested about. Please look at the bottom of your screen. Do you see a windowlist there? Good. As you might notice, there's a yellow and calmly flashing/glowing exlamation mark next to the 'VICEDORA' text. Any idea what that means? It means that there's a software update for this excellent piece of software! If you hold your emulated mouse over the exlamation mark, you'll notice that the update contains 'EXTRA AWESOMESAUCE AND SPEED UPGRADES'. Do you want extra awesomesauce to go with Archon, one of the best Commodore 64 games ever made? Yes, you do! So, you might want to be interested in saving your state and closing VICEDORA down to update it. I'll remember you with a nicely flashing exclamation mark in the System Tray after you have closed down VICEDORA, if you want me to. Just click on the exclamation mark next to the VICEDORA text, and select 'remind me when application closed down', and I'll remind you whenever you -you guessed it- closed down VICEDORA! My name is Pandora. I can do nifty things like that!"

"Oh, gee. It looks like you're holding the SELECT key whilst having your mouse pointer on the 'Hermaphrodite' word in your document reader (whyever is it there, anyways?). Do you perhaps want a dictionary.com definition? Or would you rather know the meaning and intricate details of hermaphroditism as known by Wikipedia? If so, just tap the screen and I'll give you a little rundown of the options. Ah! You are indeed a very interesting person: you want to know information about hermaphroditism on Wikipedia! I'll show it to you, and next time you ask me to do any interestingstuffs with words, I'll place Wikipedia on the top of the list next time, since I know you value quality encyclopedic information more than anything else! Woohoo! Hey, maybe this is interesting, it seems like there is a way I can show you really basic information, the 'summary' about any given subject as seen on Wikipedia, whenever you hold select! This means that you won't have to open up your browser anymore? do you want this? You do? Awesome! I'm Pandora and doing nifty little things like this is one of my hobbies!"

...you get the idea.. ;)
 
Very nice post Megagun :)


Yes, it's needed to emulate the mouse, because linux applications will require it. Anyway, it's possible to plug an usb mouse, but, I know, the mouse will not always be plugged. I only say this because we can't forget it and make an interface without mouse support.
 
efegea said:
But a simple grid of icons is boring. Pandora needs something better :lol: just joking..

If a basic interface is needed but some people might want a more powerful interface, then my interface is a must because it's totally customizable and skinnable using xml files and python scripts. You can do whatever you want with it, there is nothing hardcoded. That's because my interface shares code with a media center I'm coding, and the code is designed this way.

So as DaveC said (was him?), yes, a basic gmenu2x interface must be provided as default. But with my interface the user can extend it as he wants so there are no limits.
It looks like yours uses alot of resources with all of the windowing etc. Maybe it is just me but I would rather have games and emus run smoother with an interface that is cleaner and smaller. The alternative of an N64, PSX, 3DO etc emu running with choppy frameskip or NeoGeo, FBA, needing to use graphics dump files due to the lack of RAM just to have a pretty complicated desktop interface is just not worth the tradeoff to me. To me an interface is just something to get you to the app that you want. It should allow you you to do this as quickly and easily as possible, and take as little resources as possible. It should also allow the coders to bang the metal if they want and not isolate you. It should allow the coders to program the hardware, not have to program an interface. No matter how powerful the hardware, someone will do something that will push the limit. The interface is not something you will sit there and gawk at for 10 minutes. Flashy stuff is nice the first few times you see it but that wears off and then you just want to get the performance.
 
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Now the design choice that has too be done, though, is make mouse emulation default, or not, and base the main interface around that decision.

For example, a 'statusbar' that shows some text (like about a selected program or something) is pretty useless if you do not go for mouse emulation in the default UI...

Ofcourse, we *DO* want the option to either enable or disable mouse emulation inside the main GUI. I am very muchly so positive about allowing users to set options for seemingly arbitrary things like that...

Pros about mouse emulation:
+Tooltips and status bars
+Middlemouse-styled scrolling in applications (WE NEED A MIDDLEMOUSECOMBINATION, TOO!). If you do not know about this (it works at least under Windows): click the middlemouse in Firefox on a page which spawns a scrollbar, and then move your mouse.
+Application compatibility & allowing tiny windowed applications to work in the main GUI

Also, another interesting thing would be to allow users to comment to applications in the archive (or in other archives such as the Debian ARM application repository), and thus people can test applications and comment on wether the application works or nor through the Pandora software installation application itself...

In the end, though, we do really want mouse emulation support in the Pandora default firmware, since it'd blow up initial software compatibility enormously. Also, we'd want some 'default' way of handling mouse keys, preferably by some combination and -optionally- by mapping buttons to certain keys.. As long as an application can be used without explicitly defining buttonmappings inside the program code itself, it should be okay. :)
 
DaveC said:
It looks like yours uses alot of resources with all of the windowing etc. Maybe it is just me but I would rather have games and emus run smoother with an interface that is cleaner and smaller. The alternative of an N64, PSX, 3DO etc emu running with choppy frameskip or NeoGeo, FBA, needing to use graphics dump files due to the lack of RAM just to have a pretty complicated desktop interface is just not worth the tradeoff to me. To me an interface is just something to get you to the app that you want. It should allow you you to do this as quickly and easily as possible, and take as little resources as possible. It should also allow the coders to bang the metal if they want and not isolate you. It should allow the coders to program the hardware, not have to program an interface. No matter how powerful the hardware, someone will do something that will push the limit. The interface is not something you will sit there and gawk at for 10 minutes. Flashy stuff is nice the first few times you see it but that wears off and then you just want to get the performance.
When emus and games are running, the interface is sleepping, so it uses 0% of cpu, none, it's sleeping. And while the main interface is shown, it also uses very little cpu, I have a full KDE desktop on my pc with a lot of apps and the cpu is idle, 0% of cpu load. So the same (or better) on the pandora.

The windowing doesnt waste resources.

I don't know why you think my interface will stop the developers to program the hardware :huh:
 
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craiginatordashboard000hh9.png

craiginatordashboard000ig6.png




Three hardcoded main categories: My software, My Home and My Media (although text can be configurable)

In "my software" the categories can be customizable (user can add or remove and rename them) It works like a gmenu2x

In "My home", well, like my first mockup with all the widgets and weather and so.

In "My media" something like a media center.


Any ideas?
 
Linkous said:
doesnt the natural oil excretion from your skin eventually ruin the screen? (i'll probably use my finger/thumbs on hte screen, but with a screen protector) it would be cool if it came with a wrist strap like the DS that has a thumb cover for use on the touch screen.

EDIT: spelling
Doesn't ruin the water glasses. I did manage to make a dull spot on the graffiti patch of my palm IIIc's touch screen after 8 years of heavy daily use with a stylus.

Edit:
Just want to add on the entire interface debate;

Text Bad. Icon Good.
 
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Megagun said:
One of the more interesting things I've been having issues with in designing an interface was the lack of a right mouse button...
No Problem for our Pandora: Right Mouse Button = L or R trigger + Stylus tab onto the Screen. Problem solved. :)

All I want is an Interface where you can see everything clearly without needing a magnifier. Never forget, the screen is 800x480 pix at nearly the same size as the GP2X Screen. This means one Pixel is very very tiny. So we should forget such things like 1-pixel-thick-fonts like seen some pages ago here. I think 1 Pixel wide lines are nearly invisible at the Screen so everything should be bigger than "normal". On GP2X 32x32pix Icons are fine, at Pandora this could be to small.
If someone want to code a Menu system, he shouldn't forget this. :) Again: The Screen is damn small for it's resolution!!!!! ;)
 
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efegea said:
craiginatordashboard000hh9.png

craiginatordashboard000ig6.png




Three hardcoded main categories: My software, My Home and My Media (although text can be configurable)

In "my software" the categories can be customizable (user can add or remove and rename them) It works like a gmenu2x

In "My home", well, like my first mockup with all the widgets and weather and so.

In "My media" something like a media center.


Any ideas?



Just a suggestion for your 3 categories default name. I don't think that software is the best term for the first category, you might want to use "applications" or something similar. Also, I think the "My" is redundant.

Ex: Applications, Home, Media

^ that would be much better.


BUT, seeing as it will be configurable, I guess we can just change that after. ;P But it might be a good idea to make it so you can choose to have the tab names able to perform as 3 types: Text, Icon, and Icon + Text

Many users like icons better than Text, and many also like to have both.

-God Ginrai
 
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efegea said:
craiginatordashboard000hh9.png

craiginatordashboard000ig6.png




Three hardcoded main categories: My software, My Home and My Media (although text can be configurable)

In "my software" the categories can be customizable (user can add or remove and rename them) It works like a gmenu2x

In "My home", well, like my first mockup with all the widgets and weather and so.

In "My media" something like a media center.


Any ideas?

The text on the tabs up top is too big or too squished together. They're also very thin. (harder to hit with your finger) Perhaps consider just a row of icons. Then you can jump straight from home to emulators etc too.

Drop the My. It's too microsofty. Keep it short and sweet is better anyway.

Have icons for running programs on the status bar? So you can bring up this program and task switch. (Otherwise we may need a real task bar.
Have SD and internal memory free space indicators. (Also so we can quickly click>unmount)

Icons in top right of my home are too small. Keep them all the same size, like the software page or bottom left. You'll probably want an option for a box there to spread over half the screen for those who don't care for widgets.

Media. Will this include a full media indexing and integrated player? Perhaps some kind of integrated file manager would be nicer here. or both! We really do need a basic file manager and it would be much better if we can include this in the main software.

Otherwise this is looking very nice indeed. :)
 
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Yes, as stated previously the gui has to load and unload itself quickly for the user to not get board. If a complex gui takes 10 seconds to unload each time a game is executed, devs will just create an alternative lite UI that looks something like XTree Gold.
 
efegea said:
craiginatordashboard000hh9.png

craiginatordashboard000ig6.png




Three hardcoded main categories: My software, My Home and My Media (although text can be configurable)

In "my software" the categories can be customizable (user can add or remove and rename them) It works like a gmenu2x

In "My home", well, like my first mockup with all the widgets and weather and so.

In "My media" something like a media center.


Any ideas?



I like the setup that you have going there now as for the mouse emulation we could use the analog clicks for the right and left click of the mouse or use the shoulder buttons. That would probably be the best way for the mouse emulation.
 
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Megagun said:
+Middlemouse-styled scrolling in applications (WE NEED A MIDDLEMOUSECOMBINATION, TOO!). If you do not know about this (it works at least under Windows): click the middlemouse in Firefox on a page which spawns a scrollbar, and then move your mouse.
The middle mouse scroll thing is only in windows. not in linux. So you wouldn't get it unless someone made a mod for it. I find it pretty aweful to use myself anyway. What's wrong with up/down or pageup/down. Space bar does page down by default too....

OR, If we make one of the analog sticks a left right up down mouse wheel, with variable speed if it's a true analog stick then that would work pretty darned sweet. B)
 
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efegea said:
craiginatordashboard000hh9.png
Three hardcoded main categories: My software, My Home and My Media (although text can be configurable)Any ideas?



I don't like hardcoded anything. They should be completely configurable (see Gmenu2X), and should be able to be eliminated altogether. I don't need or want the "MY" catagories and that sounds lame. "MY" sounds way to Microsofty for my liking. I am not one of the MS haters but still I don't care for that.

The second row is all that I would need as I could just have a tab for "media" in there. "My software" and "home" is rather redundant and not needed.
 
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How about using the Right analog "click" as a right mouse button or just hover with the left nub and use the right trigger.

800x480 on a 4.3" is not that bad for text it doesn't have to really be big but probably bolder to easily make out. I'm using the ARCHOS wifi pvp as a reference and the main font is about the same as the GP2x main screen, so in contrast I guess from a content creation standpoint when you make the font slightly bigger than the character set of the GP2X for example, its going to end up looking average size on the pandora screen.
 
If I may make an observation regarding the (mucho excellento!) interface mockup pics:

This is a device we're mostly going to be holding in our hands, either one or both, and we're going to stab at the screen to get things done. Wouldn't it therefore not make more sense to have the tabs at the bottom of the screen? That way your hand won't obscure the contents as much. The statusbar could then go to the top.

This is sorta from the Newton Book Of Touchscreen Interface: Put the interactive stuff as close as possible to the user, i.e; the bottom of the screen. It works, trust me.
 
Karel Jansens said:
If I may make an observation regarding the (mucho excellento!) interface mockup pics:

This is a device we're mostly going to be holding in our hands, either one or both, and we're going to stab at the screen to get things done. Wouldn't it therefore not make more sense to have the tabs at the bottom of the screen? That way your hand won't obscure the contents as much. The statusbar could then go to the top.

This is sorta from the Newton Book Of Touchscreen Interface: Put the interactive stuff as close as possible to the user, i.e; the bottom of the screen. It works, trust me.

No one said you'd HAVE to use the touch screen. The dev's will be sensible enough to choose an interface that has both button and touch controls avaliable. Touch controls require a bit more planning that's all. I personally think tapping the bottom half of the screen will be a little more awkward anyway.
 
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