Pandora Batch 2: A new hope (2011-07-28)

[EvilDragon]

Hypothetically speaking, if it turns out CC had become more full of crap than ever recently and that by the time they can ship any boards again everything in germany will be already prepared and ready for production, will OPT drop CC for good and let the new company finish the last 1K boards and thereafter procceed to batch 2?

The remaining 1k boards ARE already produced, but have issues that CC is currently fixing.


But yes, if the new company is better and faster with fixing and have a reasonable price to do that, we'll eventually let them take over.


It all depends on CC's speed right now.

 

[n6pfk]

Does "CC" stand for "Corrupt Company".

 

[Night]

The remaining 1k boards ARE already produced, but have issues that CC is currently fixing.


But yes, if the new company is better and faster with fixing and have a reasonable price to do that, we'll eventually let them take over.


It all depends on CC's speed right now.

Good to hear, i had this bad idea CC didn't even bother producing the remaining boards ever since the WiFi problems showed up.


Also, for what it's worth, i also have a good feeling about the new company, hopefully from now on things will go smoother for you guys, the second batchers and the future pandora owners.

Does "CC" stand for "Corrupt Company".

In my opinion, more like "Capitalist Company", come to think about it a short version for Global Components, "GC", can also stand for "Good Company" or "Great Company".


This might be another good sign.

 

[Blue Protoman]

Does "CC" stand for "Corrupt Company".

In my opinion, more like "Capitalist Company", come to think about it a short version for Global Components, "GC", can also stand for "Good Company" or "Great Company".

There is a God.

 

[Link]

I'm happy that i'm allowed to make a movie of the birth of a Pandora board as soon as production starts.

Can't wait to see that! :blink:

 

[n6pfk]

How do we know that due to the oxidation problems that parts and their connection on the old oxidized boards are not time bombs waiting to fail? Also are the parts absorbing moisture before they are mounted that can cause damage to the internal connections and electronics?

 

[EvilDragon]

How do we know that due to the oxidation problems that parts and their connection on the old oxidized boards are not time bombs waiting to fail? Also are the parts absorbing moisture before they are mounted that can cause damage to the internal connections and electronics?

Easy: Because it's not a time bomb for any device out there


I explained it a few times already:


Bare PCBs have copper pads where the parts will be put on.


Once the parts are on and soldered (and the PCB gets some special coating for protection as well), the parts have a solid connection to the copper and no more oxidation will occur.


If the bare PCBs lie around for a while, the copper pads start oxidating and it happens that parts don't make a proper connection when soldered.


This is the issue.


Once a PCB is soldered and working, there is no ticking time bomb anymore.


ANY device would be a ticking time bomb otherwise

 

[n6pfk]

How do we know that due to the oxidation problems that parts and their connection on the old oxidized boards are not time bombs waiting to fail? Also are the parts absorbing moisture before they are mounted that can cause damage to the internal connections and electronics?

Easy: Because it's not a time bomb for any device out there


I explained it a few times already:


Bare PCBs have copper pads where the parts will be put on.


Once the parts are on and soldered (and the PCB gets some special coating for protection as well), the parts have a solid connection to the copper and no more oxidation will occur.


If the bare PCBs lie around for a while, the copper pads start oxidating and it happens that parts don't make a proper connection when soldered.


This is the issue.


Once a PCB is soldered and working, there is no ticking time bomb anymore.


ANY device would be a ticking time bomb otherwise

SMT parts have a time to live that varies with each type of part, Once removed from their shipping package they will start to absorb moisture. This moisture can turn to steam during the soldering process destroying the part. Do we know when the parts were unpackaged and if their time to solder has been exceeded? This type of damage can be a time bomb.

 

[taylor-madeak]

Easy: Because it's not a time bomb for any device out there


I explained it a few times already:


Bare PCBs have copper pads where the parts will be put on.


Once the parts are on and soldered (and the PCB gets some special coating for protection as well), the parts have a solid connection to the copper and no more oxidation will occur.


If the bare PCBs lie around for a while, the copper pads start oxidating and it happens that parts don't make a proper connection when soldered.


This is the issue.


Once a PCB is soldered and working, there is no ticking time bomb anymore.


ANY device would be a ticking time bomb otherwise

This does nothing to allay the expressed concern, EvilDragon, and I do think it is a valid concern. If the film of cuprous oxide that you're blaming for the faulty connection between the WiFi chip and the board is really causing the solder not to bond properly with the solder pads on the board (in spite of the solder flux, which is designed to dissolve the layer of oxide among other things), then would that not also be true for every other solder pad on the Pandora's board? If this is, in fact, the case, then the "ticking time bomb" that I've seen referred to multiple times recently is a valid concern.


The question being asked, put as simply and clearly as possible, is this: if a film of cuprous oxide on the Pandora mainboard's solder pads is causing the solder to not bond properly between the components and the pad, then shouldn't we be concerned that components that appear to be properly soldered upon delivery of the Pandora mainboards might develop a faulty connection later on down the line when the solder connections eventually fail?


You raised this concern yourself by claiming (or relaying CC's claim) that oxidized copper solder pads are the culprit behind these failed boards, so please don't be offended when I say that a "no ticking time bomb will occur because I said it won't" just isn't a good enough answer to make this question go away.


There are several more possible answers that can be explored for truth, but probably the simplest and truest (bordering on truism, at this point) answer is this:


CircuitCo Fails.


END OF LINE

 

[EvilDragon]

Nope, there's no need to be concerned about that.


Any connection that HAS been soldered will not have any oxidation problems anymore.


And if the soldering for one part is that bad that it would suffer from oxidation, it would have a very bad connection from the very beginning and cause issues. Or the connection would break while transporting it.


I can understand your concerns. But once it's been soldered good enough to work, it will not cause problems in the future.

 

[Cas]

Hello


Is the case production going to be looked at along with the material used ?

 

[dreamer]

Afaik the cases for both batches have already been fully produced.

 

[Argtrak]

Nope, there's no need to be concerned about that.


Any connection that HAS been soldered will not have any oxidation problems anymore.


And if the soldering for one part is that bad that it would suffer from oxidation, it would have a very bad connection from the very beginning and cause issues. Or the connection would break while transporting it.


I can understand your concerns. But once it's been soldered good enough to work, it will not cause problems in the future.

It still makes me wonder though. I am not trying to play paranoid, but while I agree that the electrical connection should not degrade if left alone, I still have some concerns about the "good enough to work" joint's ability to handle mechanical stress as well as a "perfectly good" solder joint.


For example: suppose a normal good joint has a pad/component coverage area of 80-100%, and perhaps as little as 5-20% on a "technically working" oxidized pad. Application of mechanical stress (shipping mayhem, somebody sits on my Pandora, whatever else fancied by your imagination) could be enough to sufficiently break the weak joint to cause problems. This side and that side of the tolerance for a digital signal is a pretty finicky thing, that's why you want good joints.


We simply won't know until long term use and failure statistics are compiled whether my concern is valid or not. I'll keep my fingers crossed to eventually get a Pandora AND for its long life. Its just sad CC didn't do their job quicker or at least as they said they would (populate them all last Fall).

 

[joshisgood]

Hey Ed, just want to sAy you're doing A great job, ordered my pandora November 2010, upgraded to premium around June 4 still waiting, but enjoying the wait. First post on pandora forum (been watching for a long time). Sorry for the off topic post but I'm pretty drunk (I think it ust be about 3 30 am here). AnywAy, have A good one guys, hOpe all goes well in the near future and we all see some pandora's soon, . Ps. I got an icontrolPad to ease the wait and it's fucking awesome (excuse the bad language if it's not Apropriiate but street fighter 2 on that thing is quite simPly fucing aWesome, Please excuse my drunken ramblings and off topic chit chat, I'm sure one of you mods will censor my bad language or just delete my post altogether, either way good Luck Ed, craigix(by the way, is craigix == crAig 9 or is it just crAig x/craigix(either wAy it's all good stuff)(excuse the capital A's typing this on iPhone is difficult whilst in this drunken state. Anyway, goodluck all persons involved here and sorry again for tAlking so much smack in this news post. Peace

 

[joshisgood]

Just read my post. Sorry again ha ha. Turns out it's 4:30 now, time for this guy tO go to bed, goodnight All...

 

[Blue Protoman]

So long as you're not driving, it's all good.


And by the way, it's not Craig 9, it's Craigix because he likes the "ix".

 

[Bosbeetle]

oops wrong thread never mind

 

[PokeParadox]

Just read my post. Sorry again ha ha. Turns out it's 4:30 now, time for this guy tO go to bed, goodnight All...

Dude... don't drink and type, people have died! :lol:

 

[Gotham]

I'm probably the only person who thought of Vince the Shamwow guy when reading this. "You know the German's make good stuff".

 

[Blue Protoman]

You're the first who thought of him initially, but I'm the second to see it make sense!