Pandora A,b,x,y Button Placement Not Emu Friendly?

[Balzac2m]

I want the buttons
P
&
|
A

 

[atomicthumbs]

Does anyone else think 'NESW' would look daggy on a nice new flashy Pando? Come to think of it, I think it would look really daggy, like some kind of weird surveying tool. It might look ok in a cool font. But either way it'd be better than 'BXAY', which is just counterintuitive and confusing.

I know 1,2,3,4 have been suggested.. how about 0,1,2,3 since half of you guys are programmers

For those not in the know:

daggy

 

[chad78]

Does anyone else think 'NESW' would look daggy on a nice new flashy Pando? Come to think of it, I think it would look really daggy, like some kind of weird surveying tool. It might look ok in a cool font. But either way it'd be better than 'BXAY', which is just counterintuitive and confusing.

I know 1,2,3,4 have been suggested.. how about 0,1,2,3 since half of you guys are programmers

For those not in the know:

daggy


Um is it this one: daggy - not stylish, out of fashion, not trendy, not cool, untidy, unclean, not neat.
v. to have no style.

or this one - daggy - Extremely sexy, hot, cool, or fierce

== Well, it looks like the thumbs have pointed to the first, but I just want to make sure. I don't like to think the word could mean the opposite of itself. That would be stupid and bad. Bad as in not good - not bad as in cool. And stupid as in not smart - not stupid as in dope and fresh. And that's dope as in off-da-chain, not dope as in drugs - or dope as in idiot. Because actually, I did mean stupid as in dope - as in "rope a dope" - like an idiot, dolt, fool, etc.

 

[gaterooze]

One word: SquidgeSNES.

Squidge had the foresight to allow users to set an option which mapped SNES buttons to either the layout OR the labels on the GP2X buttons. Problem solved. Those familiar with SNES could go with the natural layout as they wouldn't need to look at the labels, and those new to SNES could go with the labels which would then match the screen prompts.

Any way you do things, it will contradict one emulated system or another. Megadrive had A, B in this order, so already you have a conflict with the SNES style.

My preference would be α, β, λ, Ω

 

[atomicthumbs]

Um is it this one: daggy - not stylish, out of fashion, not trendy, not cool, untidy, unclean, not neat.
v. to have no style.

or this one - daggy - Extremely sexy, hot, cool, or fierce

On Urban Dictionary the top one is always the real meaning. 1300 thumbs up > three thumbs down.

Let's stop drifting offtopic now.

SquidgeSNES had the right idea. Let's make it so that we can have the original buttons, Pandora buttons, or custom buttons in each emulator.

Pandora Interface Standards. I suggest having Orkie protect this page once everything is agreed upon.

 

[Nilsiboy]

I looked at the page, and the part about emulator layouts seems to make sense, but I dislike the proposed "B for action, X for cancel" scheme.

The way it looks right now there are two groups:
1. The Nintendo playing people (SNES and NDS, as far as I understand) who would prefer such a layout and of which there are plenty. No point in denying that.

2. The people that did not grow up playing the SNES but systems like the PSX, Dreamcast and XBOX. These will be confused since on those systems the lowermost button ("cross" and A, respectively) is used to confirm actions and the right one (circle or B ) to cancel. These people would be confused by the "Nintendo" scheme

I don't think it would be a smart choice to exclude either, since there will likely be equal numbers of people in both groups eventually, taking into account the popularity of the DS + the heritage of the SNES versus the number of consoles using the second scheme (PS1-3, PSP, DC, XBOX, 360)

But anyway, if both options aren't included (i.e. just 1 of them), I guess I'll have to take my own advice and remap buttons, be it through a GUI or otherwise, or just put up with it...

 

[atomicthumbs]

I looked at the page, and the part about emulator layouts seems to make sense, but I dislike the proposed "B for action, X for cancel" scheme.

Then put your concern on your discussion page. The GP2X worked this way, and I expect that's the way that most of the Pandora customers will want it to work.

 

[nubie]

I looked at the page, and the part about emulator layouts seems to make sense, but I dislike the proposed "B for action, X for cancel" scheme.

Then put your concern on your discussion page. The GP2X worked this way, and I expect that's the way that most of the Pandora customers will want it to work.


Screw that, my thumb developed a cramp and got stuck all bent until I could pop it straight, I want the bottom button to be forward, the top and/or right most buttons to be back/cancel and etc. I am especially pissed at game devs who feel that the most used fire/action button is on the very edge scant millimeters from nothing. Nothing to cradle, highly unnatural position for the thumb.

This problem is very bad with imported games. In the US games use the bottom game-pad button to signify accept or move forward, while games from Japan do not. It may be a difference in grip or physical size of the thumb, but I find it extremely uncomfortable, non-intuitive, and stupid.

Just to clarify, I don't give a damn what you call them, I would call them 1234, with bottom being 1 (and move forward/select/enter/action/gas pedal/accelerate), and 2-3 being left and right (and back/cancel/brake/e-brake etc), 4 would be at the top and would cancel you back a whole menu screen or change the view in an emulator.

I don't know why the main action button being inconveniently and painfully placed on the outer edge seems like a good idea, because it really isn't. every game I have ever played on a console has the bottom button as move forward, except those imported from Japan, and some wacky homebrew here (to be fair it was designed for the touchscreen).

Is it like this with all PSX/Xbox/DC etc (consoles with 4 symmetrical action keys) in other parts of the world? Because I have never understood the logic of it.

 

[quartercast]

I think we have to think of the gamepad in context here. What will the gamepad do when I'm browsing around my files? What will 'B' do when I'm in a word processor? What will 'X' do when I'm on the web? The function of the gamepad should not be ambiguous in these instances. Are people expected to turn to the touchscreen in these instances? I think the gamepad should be labeled to represent some commonly used functions e.g.

SYMBOL (FUNCTION)

Tick (accept, open)
Cross (cancel, delete)
Question mark (information, option)
House (home, homepage, main menu or file menu in app)

I think this makes more sense. These could be represented as Y, N, ?, and H (for yes, no, question mark, and home) or symbolically. I think their function would be pretty obvious and their location easy to memorise.

EDIT: I think 'close' would be more appropriate than 'delete' for the Cross button

 

[Ravnos]

Wow, this might just be the dumbest argument on this site in ages. To all the people complaining about button layouts, what about those of us who want to play Sega emulators? "What? This game wants me to press C? There's no C button on the Pandora! BETTER CHANGE THE LAYOUT AGAIN." Seriously, if you're really going to have that hard of a time with the button labels being in unexpected places, you're probably not smart enough to operate this device in the first place. Maybe this is more your speed.

Man, even the Dvorak keyboard guy had a more compelling argument than you guys.

 

[DawnOfTheRent]

SYMBOL (FUNCTION)

Tick (accept, open)
Cross (cancel, delete)
Question mark (information, option)
House (home, homepage, main menu or file menu in app)

I think this makes more sense. These could be represented as Y, N, ?, and H (for yes, no, question mark, and home) or symbolically. I think their function would be pretty obvious and their location easy to memorise.

<pulled from butt>
N: Navigate (bring up the main menu)
S: Select
E: Exit/Escape (go back one level in the hierarchy)
W: What's This? (get information/manuals/READMEs about the high-lighted icon)
</pulled from butt>

So now it seems quite obvious by the many varieties of responses; There is no such thing as a "Perfect Labeling System" for a machine with more than one purpose. I've used many layouts.. and can't think of any way one was better than the other.

Does it really matter how the buttons are set up for emulation? It'd be a perk, but that's all. With it's USB host, Touch screen, and Keyboard, it seems to be saying "Look at my options" a lot louder than "Look at how well I'm tailored to preform the same tasks as a (phased-out) machine you bought over ten years ago".

And is it worth mentioning that I actually prefer the Dvorak keyboard? :unsure:

 

[javaJake]

If a person - yes, a sane, educated, intelligent person - were to see a bunch of buttons - with the label of A B X and Y - and he were told "Press X"... HE'D PRESS X. Even though he knows that the X button on a SNES controller is in a different place than the X that he just pressed. And why shouldn't he? He was following directions.

Now, if that same intelligent, sane, educated human being were given a controller with a similar layout to an SNES controller - and he were told to "Press X" - if the buttons were labeled N S E W - or not labeled at all - there would be no conflict - he would press the button that was in the X position.

If you use the same letters - but in a different posistion - you set up a conflict. That should be PAINFULLY OBVIOUS to anyone reading this thread - that there will be people that are bothered by it. HOWEVER - if you use something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT - then there is no conflict. There's no direct connection, true - but there's no conflicting connection.

See my point?

Before I was indifferent to the setup of the buttons, but chad78, that totally makes sense. While it isn't the end of the world if ABXY was chosen (or XYBA, whatever) if I could cast my vote again I'd choose NESW.

And this is why we should have a "Pandora Interface Standards" section on the wiki.
Three thumbs up.

Plus four more.

Gawdamn! I read about the N W S E idea yesterday, and It's been at the back of my brain since. I think that's an incredible idea! Damn shame its too late. Maybe for v2 though.

I don't think it is too late to change. This is one of those changes that can be accomplished last minute, I assume. It's just labeling, after all.

Does anyone else think 'NESW' would look daggy on a nice new flashy Pando? Come to think of it, I think it would look really daggy, like some kind of weird surveying tool. It might look ok in a cool font. But either way it'd be better than 'BXAY', which is just counterintuitive and confusing.

I know 1,2,3,4 have been suggested.. how about 0,1,2,3 since half of you guys are programmers

For those not in the know:

daggy



:lol: Are you seriously worried about the Pandora being daggy? When did you ever get the idea the Pandora wasn't daggy-looking to begin with.

(Assuming daggy = non-stylish)

I looked at the page, and the part about emulator layouts seems to make sense, but I dislike the proposed "B for action, X for cancel" scheme.

The way it looks right now there are two groups:
1. The Nintendo playing people (SNES and NDS, as far as I understand) who would prefer such a layout and of which there are plenty. No point in denying that.

2. The people that did not grow up playing the SNES but systems like the PSX, Dreamcast and XBOX. These will be confused since on those systems the lowermost button ("cross" and A, respectively) is used to confirm actions and the right one (circle or B ) to cancel. These people would be confused by the "Nintendo" scheme



You got that mixed up. The DS crowd at least has A for confirm/go and B for cancel/back.

 

[aatu]

Wow, this might just be the dumbest argument on this site in ages. To all the people complaining about button layouts, what about those of us who want to play Sega emulators? "What? This game wants me to press C? There's no C button on the Pandora! BETTER CHANGE THE LAYOUT AGAIN." Seriously, if you're really going to have that hard of a time with the button labels being in unexpected places, you're probably not smart enough to operate this device in the first place. Maybe this is more your speed.

Man, even the Dvorak keyboard guy had a more compelling argument than you guys.


... Umm, just because something is "good enough", doesn't mean it can't (or shouldn't) be improved. If we have nothing better to do, then why not discuss about layouts? Those that HAVE something better to do, can do those things, instead of reading/posting to this thread.

 

[javaJake]

Man, even the Dvorak keyboard guy had a more compelling argument than you guys.

Read: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?act=f...&pid=608649

 

[gaterooze]

Other ideas:

^
< >
v

i.e. ^, >, <, v

or @, *, %, & -- can be auto-mapped to those keys in certain apps.


actually (P, &, |, a) as previously suggested has such a cool chic-geek appeal...

 

[magicman5421]

to thse claiming that this is a pointless argument - this may seem like a pointless argument to you...but think of it as someone who's just seen the pandora. It opens up. They see a keyboard. Fine. kind of unconventional key placement, but ok. They see a D-Pad. Great! Something that everyone's familiar with. They see the action buttons.
1: GP2X style.
a) familiar w/ gp2x: "Great! something I'm familiar with."
b) familiar w/ not gp2x: "WTF? I don't get it."
c) not familiar with any button layout: "Hmm...ok...now I wonder which button is go? I've got it, A!"
2: Nintendo style.
a) familiar w/ gp2x: "Hmm...It's different, but this is closer to some of the emulators I use and I think I can get used to it."
b) familiar w/ not gp2x: "Hey! Something familiar! I know how to get around in this."
c) not familiar with any button layout: "Hmm...ok...now I wonder which button is go? I've got it, A!"
3: NESW
a, b) "WTF? Hmm...with the lack of conventional button labellings, I'll choose the button that I'm most familiar with being action."
c) "What kind of button labeling is that? I've never seen anything like that before...Isn't this a gaming console and not a gps?"
First impressions are very powerful. the right impression can draw in a prospective buyer while the wrong one could have the opposite effect. In my opinion, the one that pleases the most number of people is the Nintendo-style button layout.
Just my $0.02 though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Sphinxter]

Fuck nintendo and sony both. They deserve nothing from open gaming, especially a declaration they are some sort of defacto standard.

 

[magicman5421]

the truth of the matter is, though, that Nintendo and Sony are defacto standards in the gaming world today. They were the pioneers, and nobody can deny that. They set the precedent that everyone has followed. I know that's not a convincing argument to do it their way, and I know the pandora is kind of a "don't go with the standard" device, but it also needs to be successful and thus must pander to the wills of foolish mortals.

 

[plopperz]

Sony is NOT a pioneer <_<

Why not make the top of the buttons paper so people can write whatever the hell they want on there.

 

[Prophet]

to thse claiming that this is a pointless argument

Yes, that would include myself.

And it's still pointless. Incredibly, inexplicably pointless.

What I'm hearing is basically this... mainstream gamer kiddies might happen upon a Pandora and become frozen in horror if the button LABELS don't match something they're used to. This might somehow turn them completely off to the Pandora, and the sky will fall.

<_<

I really hope I'm not coming across uncivil - I really try my best to be fair and nice. But this entire thread is unfittingly silly IMO. It just really is. The button labels are so utterly meaningless. I understand different people have different points of view, and that is mine.

How about no button labels at all? Then everyone can imagine they're labeled however they want?

QUOTE
First impressions are very powerful. the right impression can draw in a prospective buyer while the wrong one could have the opposite effect. In my opinion, the one that pleases the most number of people is the Nintendo-style button layout.Just my $0.02 though, so take it with a grain of salt.


I can't tell if were you're smiling or not when you typed that... but do you seriously believe someone interested in the Pandora (and I think Pandora will attract a more intelligent demographic overall) will NOT buy one because the button labels don't meet the (apparently) almighty Nintendo button label standard?

Large grain of salt taken!

the truth of the matter is, though, that Nintendo and Sony are defacto standards in the gaming world today. They were the pioneers, and nobody can deny that. They set the precedent that everyone has followed. I know that's not a convincing argument to do it their way, and I know the pandora is kind of a "don't go with the standard" device, but it also needs to be successful and thus must pander to the wills of foolish mortals.



I will deny that - they were not "the pioneers."

Myself and probably many others around here have owned game consoles before Nintendo or Sony (Sony, relatively speaking, is a freaking kid in the videogame world) existed. They certainly came along later and set standards, and they certainly pioneered many things in their own time. But they were not THE pioneers. I wonder if many young gamers even realize this, but Videogames were not invented in Japan.

You must be a bit young. And that's fine - being young is fantastic. But gaming existed long before the Playstation. And even before Nintendo made Donkey kong. I know cuz I was around at the time!

As for pandering...

I still cannot buy this idea that button labels... BUTTON LABELS!!... will somehow make or break the Pandora. And that somehow the right button labels... BUTTON LABELS!!!!... will make the Pandora something that little Johnny will beg his soccer mom for, and the wrong ones will send him running in terror after years of suckling his standardized official Nintendo gaming equipment.

It's just silly. I feel like this is a Monty Python skit!