Pandora A,b,x,y Button Placement Not Emu Friendly?

[Spectralist]

I have yet to come across an emulator that doesn't let you reconfigure its button mapping: meaning that pressing the button physically labeled 'A' would register 'A' in SNES, Genesis, and Gameboy all the same. It's NSEW or FGHJ that would do more harm then good, because then you would have to memorize the physical button layout of each system you're emulating.

It's not when using an emulator that it's an issue. When playing SNES i will know when it says push Y to push the left button.

It's after i've just played 6 hours of SNES and go to do something else. Open up a homebrew game for example. And see something say 'push Y' which i have responded to, for the last 6 hours, and most of my life, by pushing the leftmost button. Only now it's not there, it's somewhere else entirely and i have to look down to remember where.

As i've said using something entirely new sidesteppes this issue. It's not a big issue at all, a minor annoyance at best, but i can't see any real benefit of using ABXY. No benefit and minor detriment = poor choice, in my opinion at least.

Simply using anything else, nsew, 1234, !@#$, symbols, greek, colours, , anything that has either never been done, or has only been done one way(and is being done that way) would be better then the current layout.

 

[DawnOfTheRent]

Well, fortunately, the Pandora is "open". So if you wanted to make your own front ends and versions of programs using buttons in an SNES style, you're more than capable of it, seeing as quite a few people would enjoy this, you could even create your own little side community called "SNES Pandora" (clever name I know~ Thought of it myself). A whole archive could be devoted to Pandora apps with SNES button layouts (of course, you'd probably have to host your own archive).

While I'm not fluent with Linux (I don't have broadband yet and my dial-up Linux experiences have been disappointing) I'm under the impression you can create scripts which remap buttons (of course, I haven't looked in my Linux book in forever, so this may be inaccurate). If the Pandora offers something similar, the side community will only have to distribute small script files and associate them with the default programs to make them compatible with your layout of choice (assuming it still uses the button designations A B X Y).

A cheaper DIY (and more power efficient) version of the OLED set up would be to drill a small hole in between all four buttons, create an overlay with a circle of rubber/plastic with the correct button designations for the system you're currently wanting to emulate, and just screw it down covering up the default buttons (while this idea was really just thrown in for humor, it seems the Jaguar used something similar to label button layouts specific to a certain game).

Oh, and just to say: Even though it's too late for the Pandora, I think the N W S E button set up is brilliant, so often do I remember the old days of playing Halo with my dad and having him constantly pause the game, put on his reading glasses, and find out which button is X.

And yes please, help make the menu navigation buttons more standard across all the programs. This shouldn't be hard on the Pandora since it actually has an [ESC] button and if I'm not mistaken, a [Menu] button to help keep us away from the chaos of resorting to combos like we did on the GP2X.

 

[quartercast]

I too think the button layout on the GP2X is confusing. In my mind 'A = OK' and 'B = cancel' (from years of playing on Nintendo consoles), but on the GP2X they're in different positions and their function varies from application to application.

From the point of view of ergonomics, I believe the thumb should most comfortably sit on the 'affirmative' button (A for Nintendo, O for playstation). The next closest button should be the 'negative' button (B for nintendo, X for playstation). For some reason on the GP2X these are B and X, which in my mind both have negative connotations. Its simply not intuitive.

Please, you have the chance to fix this. Don't copy a bad copy.

 

[Arialia]

....
Oh, and just to say: Even though it's too late for the Pandora, I think the N W S E button set up is brilliant, so often do I remember the old days of playing Halo with my dad and having him constantly pause the game, put on his reading glasses, and find out which button is X.

And yes please, help make the menu navigation buttons more standard across all the programs. This shouldn't be hard on the Pandora since it actually has an [ESC] button and if I'm not mistaken, a [Menu] button to help keep us away from the chaos of resorting to combos like we did on the GP2X.

Yes i agree with you, when i read 'ABXY' button for Pandora i was thinking it is same layout as Nintendo button, i've not play a lot on NES ,i am player more on C64 , AppleII and PC (lot) and NDS and little Playstation, i've only noticed today that layout buttons was not same as NDS sorry :rolleyes: .

and for a gaming system made for emulation ( it was the first argument of Pandora isn't it ? ) it is not a good thing.

But it is not too serious .

For me the important thing is make a standard for actions in homebrews/Commercial game Pandora

and i understand now why is what so difficult under gp2x :

Homebrewers who are also most nintendo gamers choose
'East' button for 'Accept/Valid/default' action because it is as place of 'A' button Nintendo
'South' button for 'Back/Cancel/second' action because it is as place of 'B' button Nintendo
the others buttons i don't know

Homebrewers who are also most sony gamers choose
'South' button for 'Accept/Valid/default' action
the others buttons i don't know

and for others homebrewers i don't know

for me the meaning of action button depends on position not on label,

first button for me is 'East' or 'South' , i prefer 'East' because i am most NDS than Playstation
for action : Accept, and first action in game ( fire, jump .....)

second button for me is 'South' or 'East' ' , i prefer 'South' because i am most NDS than Playstation
for action : Back,Cancel and second action in game

the two others are free
maybe 'North' as third action and 'West' as fourth action

For label of buttons i think it is too late .... :rolleyes:

[Edit]
yes NESW (with color of gamepad PS1 ) is a good idea no need to look on label as i do on all pad first

very good idea , more excellent idea and little 'a','b','x','y' paint on case maybe (or stickers )

 

[gruso]

The GP2X button layout SUCKS. There, I said it.

 

[Parkydr]

So many posts about something so trivial.

I don't care. There, I said it.

 

[Nilsiboy]

You and a few other people. Go ahead; CAD files are included. Machine your own compass-buttons.

That doesn't solve the problem. Placing stickers on it, moving the existing buttons, making my own buttons - none of those fix anything. The Pandora GUI, any and all games and applications made especially for the Pandora will use the buttons that come with the unit.

And the main thing that everyone seems to be missing is - it's not me I'm worried about. It's the millions BILLIONS of people who have never heard of, seen, held, smelled, been in the same area code as, or KNOWN anyone who has ever heard of - the GP2X.

And yet, of those same 6 billion people - a surprisingly high percentage - about 50 million - have actually *OWNED* a SNES - and even more have played them, and even more have heard of them.

I'm not trying to cut down the GP2X - I'm desperately trying to get you to realize it's actual impact on the world as a whole.


Actually, making your own buttons seems like it would be a LOT of work, since they look like they're connected to the other buttons + D-Pad on the membrane. But if someone did go through the effort, it shouldn't be hard to make the OS react to each button like you want to, so that your modified layout still works (i.e. A in the program still means A, wherever you put A)

4 buttons versus several dozen (or more than a hundred) buttons is not exactly an accurate comparison.

It is when those 4 buttons are the main ones, if not the only ones, I will use when gaming - and gaming is what sets the Pandora apart from any other UMPC on the market (which there are many).



I don't think that's really an argument... since there are fewer buttons, the time needed to learn the layout becomes smaller...

Yes. A and B are mapped to A and B usually; otherwise you can just hit what makes sense.

That's the problem - you never tell a user to "Hit whatever makes sense." It's not that people are stupid - I am getting offended that everyone keeps talking about how "Smart" the GP2X users are - like the rest of us are idiots. You don't build something and say "If they can't figure out how to use it - they are too stupid for my product!" Bullshit - you are too stupid to design it right in the first place. As a designer - you don't blame the user. You make your device - your GUI - your software - as simple, straightforward, and intuitive as possible - and you document everything. I am sick to death of designers blaming users for being too stupid to use their stupid. Grow up, take some classes on User Interface, or read a damn book - but take some responsibility and figure out YOUR DESIGN SUCKS and fix it. Don't blame the user.


I'm sorry you got the impression of being called stupid. That was not the way - at least I - meant it.
What I did mean to say was that everyone using a pandora is going to be able to realize when they're playing SNES and when not, since it does not take any extraordinary degree of intelligence to do so.

Again, I am not calling you guys who say you won't be able to deal with it stupid, I'm just thinking that you are seeing the situation much too pessimistic.

 

[Null]

Add me to the list of people that doesn't give a shit which button labelling scheme the Pandora uses.

 

[Firefox]

I have to say that I'm in favour of the SNES-like layout.

There isn't much consistancy in the button usage in GP2X software (including the firmware), and GP2X software will have to be ported to the Pandora in any case. So there doesn't seem to be much reason to copy the GP2X.

Lots of people will be using their Pandora to play old games using emulators though, so it'd be nice if the button labelling matched the console being emulated instead of having to picture the original console's controller in your head all the time.

 

[Osred]

The labels do matter, because they're so open to interpretation by devs that everything becomes inconsistent. Does no one else get frustrated with the constantly changing default/action button on the GP2X? This is a direct result of the buttons being labelled in a completely non-intuitive way.

I don't think that the location of the action button matters. Different types of games may warrant a different location of the action button. As such the gameplay may be more intuitive if a button placement which is easy to learn is implemented by the developers. Also in my opinion, with only maybe 4 buttons in use the learning curve for the button placement of any game isn't that steep.

 

[quartercast]

Does anyone else think 'NESW' would look daggy on a nice new flashy Pando? Come to think of it, I think it would look really daggy, like some kind of weird surveying tool. It might look ok in a cool font. But either way it'd be better than 'BXAY', which is just counterintuitive and confusing.

I know 1,2,3,4 have been suggested.. how about 0,1,2,3 since half of you guys are programmers

 

[Arialia]

The labels do matter, because they're so open to interpretation by devs that everything becomes inconsistent. Does no one else get frustrated with the constantly changing default/action button on the GP2X? This is a direct result of the buttons being labelled in a completely non-intuitive way.

I don't think that the location of the action button matters. Different types of games may warrant a different location of the action button. As such the gameplay may be more intuitive if a button placement which is easy to learn is implemented by the developers. Also in my opinion, with only maybe 4 buttons in use the learning curve for the button placement of any game isn't that steep.

have you play a lot under PC ?

For me i dislike learn controls for new game and have configuring controls at each game
So i like standardization made by Nintendo and Sony
with console i need to learn only controls standards and after if the game is good ok i can learn EXTRA combo.

So i have an idea :
why not do for gaming controls the same things as keyboard ?
I mean create gaming controls mapping like keyboard mapping ?

So as we have 'Q' touch which is mapped for example at the physical 'Q' touch in 'Qwerty keyboard' and mapped to 'A' in 'Azerty keyboard'
we could have these virtual touch :
'Acceptbutton'
'Backbutton'
'Thirdbutton'
'Fourthbutton'
'Menu'
'LShoulder'
'RShoulder'
what is the other buttons? i don't retrieve the render of Evildragon which look that :huh:

and in SDL or SFML use of virtual button not physical so if user want the button action will be 'East' it will work as he want and for another user it will be 'West' B)

and program could suggest default settings user or a different mapping for example mapping Nes for emulator Nes B)

 

[Parkydr]

There's no consistency, I have trouble with XBox controls because I'm used to Nintendo.

The Pandora arrangement is the same as the GP2X, I'm used to it, so it's fine.

I especially like the A and B button positions, they read left to right, the way we read in my country.

 

[aranson]

Oh, and just to say: Even though it's too late for the Pandora, I think the N W S E button set up is brilliant, so often do I remember the old days of playing Halo with my dad and having him constantly pause the game, put on his reading glasses, and find out which button is X.

Gawdamn! I read about the N W S E idea yesterday, and It's been at the back of my brain since. I think that's an incredible idea! Damn shame its too late. Maybe for v2 though.

 

[closetwam]

A "Y" within a square, an "X" within a triangle, an "A" within a circle and a "B" with an "X" crossed through it.

 

[DrLGR]

Do we even know that the button labels are? Or is this argument based off of the labels that are on the renders. Do the CAD files have the button labels in them, and that is what the renders were based off of? Just curious if anybody knows what the "planned" layout is, or if this is just to rehash what people "want."

 

[aatu]

A "Y" within a square, an "X" within a triangle, an "A" within a circle and a "B" with an "X" crossed through it.

To be honest, that ain't a bad idea. But somebody would also have to make it look GOOD. If it's too chaotic, it would mess things up even more (especially the two X's)...

 

[Chip]

Do we even know that the button labels are?

Only one man knows for sure, and he hasn't chimed in yet.

Frankly, I'm surprised you are all still arguing over this. Everybody has made their case (repeatedly) for their favorite labels, and there is obviously no one labeling scheme with which everybody will be happy. There are no more new arguements or ideas. At some point, you're just fighting to see who can yell "MY WAY IS BETTER!" the loudest. Just let it go.

 

[fusion_power]

Do we even know that the button labels are?

Only one man knows for sure, and he hasn't chimed in yet.


The Question is: why not yet? ^_^ Craigix could end the whole discussion with one sentence. I'm sure the final control layout for the Action buttons if fix since months. If the Renders are correct we will have a GP2X Button layout but this never was confirmed. Hmm.

Because the Buttons need a name for describing 'em in readme's, the Labeling has to be reproducable in Text files. I don't know ASCII triangle signs or colour-dots so we need Letters or Numbers that can be written in a simple Text File. I, II, III, IV, or so. ^^"""

 

[Tobriand]

A "Y" within a square, an "X" within a triangle, an "A" within a circle and a "B" with an "X" crossed through it.

The ONLY problem with that I have (aside from the XB button probably being a bit strange to appearances) is that it implies (although only implies) that Pandora has been designed for emulation purposes.

As has always been pointed out, that's a no-no, because it renders the Pandora team a lot more open to being sued by the big boys than anything else. As long as it's a portable that is capable of emulation, they're in the clear (or if they aren't, then nor are any PC manufacturers, or most PDA makers either). But the moment it slips into appearing designed for it, then there could be problems.