Our New Machine, Pandora

Should this thread die?

  • Yes, kill it now!

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  • Maybe move it to off-topic?

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  • No, let it live until its natural death!

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God Ginrai

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Turnip said:
With this design you could have the anolog on the bottom right for fps's if you wanted.

project_bumblebee-1h.jpg
There's a serious flaw in your design that I've been meaning to bring up.

There are no speakers.

Also, I can't tell if you put shoulder buttons on both sides, but if you did, then no one's going to want shoulder buttons on the bottom that they might accidentally hit depending on how they hold their console.

-God Ginrai
 
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atomicthumbs

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nexgen.gpxxx said:
ONE WORD!!!!!!!!!

WIKI
snip
Olympus_2020.jpg


I think you might want one of these. It's made by Liebermann and costs $20,000 dollars, but it has Solar Memory and a Q-RAM hard drive that enables instant startup. Also it runs Windows Vista, Windows XP, Linux, and Mac OS X at the same time. Not to mention the DVD burner that makes its own media.

Eolair said:
atomicthumbs said:
Interesting info: the Gamecube does 12 million polygons per second. How many does the GPU in the OMAP do again?

Also, enough arguing.
Unfortunately it's unknown because we don't know which PowerVR SGX core the OMAP3430 is using (Jadon said he would be happy to tell us the correct performance numbers once the information is public).

But there's not even a working full speed GC emulator for PC anyway so forget it.


I was thinking more of GC-style graphics. Seen Metroid Prime? As far as I remember, it was very early in the console's life, but it had incredible graphics (better than most PS2 games.
 
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zaffercharles

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Hey I forgot to mention, I'd like picture in picture GPS, so I don't have to look where I'm going.



Seriously. Make it like an upgrade or something. :eek:
 

icurafu

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atomicthumbs said:
nexgen.gpxxx said:
ONE WORD!!!!!!!!!

WIKI
snip
Olympus_2020.jpg


I think you might want one of these. It's made by Liebermann and costs $20,000 dollars, but it has Solar Memory and a Q-RAM hard drive that enables instant startup. Also it runs Windows Vista, Windows XP, Linux, and Mac OS X at the same time. Not to mention the DVD burner that makes its own media.

Eolair said:
atomicthumbs said:
Interesting info: the Gamecube does 12 million polygons per second. How many does the GPU in the OMAP do again?

Also, enough arguing.
Unfortunately it's unknown because we don't know which PowerVR SGX core the OMAP3430 is using (Jadon said he would be happy to tell us the correct performance numbers once the information is public).

But there's not even a working full speed GC emulator for PC anyway so forget it.


I was thinking more of GC-style graphics. Seen Metroid Prime? As far as I remember, it was very early in the console's life, but it had incredible graphics (better than most PS2 games.


The lowest end SVG card does 2 million polygons, I imagine it would be closer to this end. But since the two high end OMAPs have different video capabilities, it would be the card 1 or 2 up and certainly not the lowest end. So all we know at this point is more than 2 million.
 
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Turnip

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God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
With this design you could have the anolog on the bottom right for fps's if you wanted.

project_bumblebee-1h.jpg
There's a serious flaw in your design that I've been meaning to bring up.

There are no speakers.

Also, I can't tell if you put shoulder buttons on both sides, but if you did, then no one's going to want shoulder buttons on the bottom that they might accidentally hit depending on how they hold their console.

-God Ginrai


An n64 emulator that required you to use it one way would have the bottom shoulder buttons doing nothing and vice versa. You could make the start and select buttons smaller and put the speakers next to them.
 
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God Ginrai

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Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
With this design you could have the anolog on the bottom right for fps's if you wanted.

project_bumblebee-1h.jpg
There's a serious flaw in your design that I've been meaning to bring up.

There are no speakers.

Also, I can't tell if you put shoulder buttons on both sides, but if you did, then no one's going to want shoulder buttons on the bottom that they might accidentally hit depending on how they hold their console.

-God Ginrai


An n64 emulator that required you to use it one way would have the bottom shoulder buttons doing nothing and vice versa. You could make the start and select buttons smaller and put the speakers next to them.


For good N64 controls, you'd need both start and select on the right side, not one on each side.

-God Ginrai
 
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Turnip

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God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
With this design you could have the anolog on the bottom right for fps's if you wanted.

project_bumblebee-1h.jpg
There's a serious flaw in your design that I've been meaning to bring up.

There are no speakers.

Also, I can't tell if you put shoulder buttons on both sides, but if you did, then no one's going to want shoulder buttons on the bottom that they might accidentally hit depending on how they hold their console.

-God Ginrai


An n64 emulator that required you to use it one way would have the bottom shoulder buttons doing nothing and vice versa. You could make the start and select buttons smaller and put the speakers next to them.


For good N64 controls, you'd need both start and select on the right side, not one on each side.

-God Ginrai


You mean because n64 had 6 buttons on the right side? I think with those 4 buttons and the d-pad which could be used as c-buttons for some game's one would be able to figure a workable control system for virtually every N64 game.
 
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God Ginrai

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Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
With this design you could have the anolog on the bottom right for fps's if you wanted.

project_bumblebee-1h.jpg
There's a serious flaw in your design that I've been meaning to bring up.

There are no speakers.

Also, I can't tell if you put shoulder buttons on both sides, but if you did, then no one's going to want shoulder buttons on the bottom that they might accidentally hit depending on how they hold their console.

-God Ginrai


An n64 emulator that required you to use it one way would have the bottom shoulder buttons doing nothing and vice versa. You could make the start and select buttons smaller and put the speakers next to them.


For good N64 controls, you'd need both start and select on the right side, not one on each side.

-God Ginrai


You mean because n64 had 6 buttons on the right side? I think with those 4 buttons and the d-pad which could be used as c-buttons for some game's one would be able to figure a workable control system for virtually every N64 game.


That Dpad will be too low to press when you need to.

-God Ginrai
 
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sephiroth111

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nexgen.gpxxx said:

dude. if you want all that, get a $3k (usd) laptop from falcon-nw. really it'll be cheaper. and while your at it, why don't we add in a 1080p 45in display, cause those little screens hurt eyes, an aigea physX card,the ability to generate its own power using a cold fusion engine, and why not: a french maid. actually... that last one isn't a bad idea.

honestly i see so much unreasonable crap that people want to add, for a price lower than the gp2x. don't forget we'll be getting a higher quality machine than if GPH were making it. so take it in stride and let it go with the flow. if you want to request stuff, be honest with yourself: did you see it in another handheld first? i'm not saying be limited in your thinking, but if nintendo or sony isn't releasing a handheld that can emulate modern PC level graphics, than chances are, its not too likely to happen for a price lower than $700, and at that point, i'll just buy a thin notebook and have something better.

that being said, Bluetooth would be nice. wifi-b/g would also be fine. 802.11N is a bad idea, because most of the hardware is $120, and its still an unfinished spec. let alone we aren't getting a hard drive, so all that speed would be wasted. though a slot for compact flash on the inside would be nice. and it doesn't HAVE to be occupied. it'd just work better than a NAND, which everyone freaks out about.

edit: forgot to finish a thought.
 
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Turnip

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God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
With this design you could have the anolog on the bottom right for fps's if you wanted.

project_bumblebee-1h.jpg
There's a serious flaw in your design that I've been meaning to bring up.

There are no speakers.

Also, I can't tell if you put shoulder buttons on both sides, but if you did, then no one's going to want shoulder buttons on the bottom that they might accidentally hit depending on how they hold their console.

-God Ginrai


An n64 emulator that required you to use it one way would have the bottom shoulder buttons doing nothing and vice versa. You could make the start and select buttons smaller and put the speakers next to them.


For good N64 controls, you'd need both start and select on the right side, not one on each side.

-God Ginrai


You mean because n64 had 6 buttons on the right side? I think with those 4 buttons and the d-pad which could be used as c-buttons for some game's one would be able to figure a workable control system for virtually every N64 game.


That Dpad will be too low to press when you need to.

-God Ginrai


The amount of space between them would be dictated by the size of the anolog nub. The smaller the nub, the closer it could be to the buttons without getting in the way..
 
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sold

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I sorta thought that a handheld system should be considered as say a good control pad with screen and hardware intergrated into a small package.

If the screen slides up to reveal a keyboard, and there are say six buttons and a mouse control nub thing on the right, and a d pad and analouge nub/stick (above the d-pad so its out of the way) and start and select buttons on the left, and 2 or 4 shoulder buttons the device has all the functianality of a good gaming controller with the added bonus of keyboard and dedicated mouse control that can be used as a second analogue stick when needed (eg. psx ape escape). And touchscreen is an added bonus.

The OMAP or even the i.mx31 soc would allow for some awesome emulation and applications (OMAP being my preference :) ). Hindering the device by implementing crappy controls would be a pity.

And apart from that, people seem to be favouring particular ideas based on what THEY want to use the device for. Why not consider designs that do everything well over personal preference and (in some cases) overly complicated ideas? (Not saying the ideas are bad, just saying) You can put whatever progs on the machine you want when you get it, but a kickass multipurpose control layout would benefit everyone.
 

DaveC

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Exophase said:
Boohoo. Whoever said it'd be possible to vertically orient the thing anyway? Besides, you could still fit buttons in that region, depending on how you did it. You just happen to think emulating vertical MAME cabinets is more important than whatever benefits analog could give you. A lot of people would disagree with you.

Pretty much every console/handheld ever made has some kind of support for 2D graphics, why do we need more of that?

Why this 3D has potential:

- Modern 3D acceleration allows better than 2D acceleration than any 2D accelerator I'm aware of
- Enables better emulation of PS1, the most popular platform ever made
- People are actually interested in making 3D games
- It's better than the 3D on any other handheld we have. Especially DS. That kinda sucks.
- Not a lot of people are doing 3D homebrew for PSP anyway, may as well try a platform people actually do homebrew games for.

But of course running vertically oriented MAME games so that they take up as much of the screen as possible is all that matters right?
Well since the design isn't final maybe it can be vertically oriented maybe not. Hopefully it can like the GP2X. My point is why make that impossible if we don't have to? It is not "all that matters" but why slagg it off? Believe it or not there are alot out there other than me that have MAME high on the list too. Some may like MAME/arcade stuff some may not. It is not like there are only a few of those games though, there are alot. Everyone is assuming that N64 will be fullspeed with sound. Emulation of PSX? what is wrong with it on the PSP? It has PSX *now*. We need 2 that do PSX, but 0 that will do MAME well? Maybe for some.

Every console/handheld ever made has some kind of support for 2D graphics, why do we need more of that? Well there may be support for it but very few things are 2D hand-drawn pixelart anymore. Everything is pretty much all 3D. Why do we need support and good controls for 2D games? Because there will be alot of those systems emulated on this new one. Pretty much the only way to get 2D games now days is through emulation. 3D is commonplace and can be found on every current system portable or not. The point is for those that want 3D they have many options such as the PSP and home consoles/PC . For those that want the 2D systems emulated well with good controls too there are far fewer options, 0 of them handheld.

3D homebrew? 3D takes an enormous amount of work, probably why there is not much of it on the PSP. There will be some on this new thing but do you really think there is going to be a huge amount of 3D homebrew stuff? How immersive are FPS games on a 4" screen?

To those that say "just use the GP2X for other systems": The GP2X is too weak to do many of these well. SNES is just plain lousy on the GP2X. You have to OC as high as possible, strip out all of the effects and downgrade the sound to something that sounds like a broken AM radio to get a "decent" framerate. GBA as you know is just too much for the Gp2X hardware too as only the l337 few that can OC to 300 MHz can play stuff without stuttery sound and choppy animation. Amiga is way too slow, PC-Engine is poor etc. You coders did an amazing job with what you had to work with but the hardware is just too weak, kind of close but it is a miss. GP2X is not an option anymore. It would be nice that when this new system did these 2D systems (much better than the GP2X) it had good controls for them too.
 
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Turnip

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Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
God Ginrai said:
Turnip said:
With this design you could have the anolog on the bottom right for fps's if you wanted.

project_bumblebee-1h.jpg
There's a serious flaw in your design that I've been meaning to bring up.

There are no speakers.

Also, I can't tell if you put shoulder buttons on both sides, but if you did, then no one's going to want shoulder buttons on the bottom that they might accidentally hit depending on how they hold their console.

-God Ginrai


An n64 emulator that required you to use it one way would have the bottom shoulder buttons doing nothing and vice versa. You could make the start and select buttons smaller and put the speakers next to them.


For good N64 controls, you'd need both start and select on the right side, not one on each side.

-God Ginrai


You mean because n64 had 6 buttons on the right side? I think with those 4 buttons and the d-pad which could be used as c-buttons for some game's one would be able to figure a workable control system for virtually every N64 game.


That Dpad will be too low to press when you need to.

-God Ginrai


The amount of space between them would be dictated by the size of the anolog nub. The smaller the nub, the closer it could be to the buttons without getting in the way..


project_bumblebee-1h-1.jpg


Its tempting to add two extra buttons to both groups of 4, bearing in mind it may be emulating saturn aswel so both sets of 6 would be used. Infact thinking about it lots of games could use 6 buttons such as street fighter where you'd usually use the 2 shoulder buttons but the 6 button arcade style arangement would be the ideal.

Do we need start and select? Presumably in nes emu's and stuff that needs them you could just set them to the shoulder buttons?
 
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cappuchok

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As for control layouts, the start/select buttons could be made to double as the 5th/6th button on a Genesis/Arcade controller. This would give ample room for comfortable emulation of SNES and PSX-like consoles with four buttons on the right, as well as for Genesis and arcades (including NeoGeo) which typically had 6 buttons.

My own personal choice when I was considering a gamepad for emulation (for which I wanted an extended SNES/PSX layout to cope with 6-button Genesis and NeoGeo) is the Saitek P990. Remove the analogs and you have a very versatile layout combining most of the existing digital control pad schemes from the 80's - 90's.
 

Billy Lee

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My view on the price of £200 for OMAP: it is cheaper than what I thought but still too much for a gaming device. Having said that, I've started warming to the idea of OMAP over the days. Still, I'd have to think very carefully about spending so much to play old games. And that's coming from someone who has lots of money to spare (I work but live with my parents so don't have living costs). On top of the price of the machine, I'd also have to buy an SD card. I'd also like to buy an arcade stick, e.g. a HORI one, for MAME to get the real arcade experience (assuming it has good TV-Out).
 

X-Code

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It's not "only" a gaming device, the price tag is totally reasonable if we consider what it's going to offer, gaming, emulation, multimedia functions, PDA and computer functions... A Zaurus SL-C costs more and doesn't even come close to the specs being mentioned here :)
 

P-J

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X-Code said:
It's not "only" a gaming device, the price tag is totally reasonable if we consider what it's going to offer, gaming, emulation, multimedia functions, PDA and computer functions... A Zaurus SL-C costs more and doesn't even come close to the specs being mentioned here :)
Don't forget that this stuff won't appear out of thin air. Users will have to rely on the community to actually code this stuff.
 
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Billy Lee

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Yeah but no one is going to buy it for the multimedia capabilities. Only retro gamers will buy this machine. I don't think I'd make use of any other features, unless... it can play videos at HDTV resolution via the TV-Out. Is this possible? That would be a great feature for those of us who have a HDTV but no Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player.
 
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