Our New Machine, Pandora

[sold]

QUOTE
I think the price tag of £199 is way too high and will almost certainly limit sales of the unit. There still seems to be no definite direction that the unit is being pushed in so it's hard to put forward any comparisons or competitors - is it going to be going up against say the DS (at under £100) or is it going to be pushed as a more geeky/gadget fiend device and so on ?

Who is seen as the market for it regardless of price ?


These days who wouldn't want something that does gaming flawlessly and is a PMP with internet and skype? Im just speculating here, but seriously, why put limitations on the potential uses of this hardware just because its a gaming machine? I personally think there is a gap in the market that can be filled by this type of device.

EDIT: I forgot to mention PDA in there

 

[quartercast]

It's no point him making $50 profit which is a measly £25. I spend more than that on food in one week.

Oh, Happy Birthday Craig.

And that's relevant how? More than one unit would supposedly be sold... in one week.

UK company needs to make a UK profit. I.E. maybe US places can survive with $50 but vice versa a UK business would need £50 in comparison.

*numbers are arbitrary figures


Are you suggesting that UK has the same ratio increase over the US in cost of living as the increase over the value of the pound verses the value of the US dollar?

Even if the majority of cost will be provided to the global locations that produce the components and assemble the devices?

I'm not getting this. Could you provide further explaination?


Yes, and please explain which orifice this information came from.

 

[God Ginrai]

@A_SN - This system will NOT have a camera, craig already said so.

QUOTE

I think the price tag of £199 is way too high and will almost certainly limit sales of the unit. There still seems to be no definite direction that the unit is being pushed in so it's hard to put forward any comparisons or competitors - is it going to be going up against say the DS (at under £100) or is it going to be pushed as a more geeky/gadget fiend device and so on ?

Who is seen as the market for it regardless of price ?



This isn't going to be a commercial game system, so no, it won't be going up against the DS.

People are forgetting that this is in addition to the GP2X, not a replacement.

The GP2X @ £119 will provide NES, SNES, PCEngine, etc...
The Craiginator @ 199 will do more advanced consoles, plus advanced PDA, and for only £80 more...

Do I smell an official name? ;P

@sold - I don't believe there has been any mention of skype.

-God Ginrai

 

[Vimacs]

Would be funny if it had a mic, sip sidetalking!
No, seriously, i think it would be kinda cool, what do you think?

 

[Null]

@A_SN - This system will NOT have a camera, craig already said so.

I'd re-read his post it says - a camera not + a camera.

 

[sold]

@ God Ginrai. I was just kinda thinking of possible uses. Skype would be nice, but yeah, it hasn't been mentioned.

Also, I was wondering, if this thing doesn't have a camera inbuilt, would it be possible to use some sort of external usb camera for video or still shots. Even net conferencing (if the new thing has internet)

 

[weirdocollector]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

Perfectly OK for me !

Go for it !

 

[A_SN]

@A_SN - This system will NOT have a camera, craig already said so.

Heh, learn mathematics, there was a minus sign, which meant that UNLIKE the N800 it will NOT have a camera. Heh, pwned.

As for Skype, I don't know if it would work (I don't know if there are ARM builds, I don't think there are) but we'd be better off with any FOSS SIP VoIP client.

 

[sold]

There is a build for arm but it uses windows mobile os. There was something on the skype forum, but an answer as to whether or not there would be a linux build for arm wasn't given. It doesn't look good though.

I should've just asked if there would be VoIP

 

[cappuchok]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

Perfectly within reason as far as I'm concerned (see my signature... ), though it would still be nice to see some comparison (price vs performance) to the i.MX31. Still, if this is anywhere near as powerful as the OMAP3430 specs would seem to suggest (especially taking into consideration the Cortex A8 and the totally yummy SGX accellerator), I'm sold.

As for why I think it's worth it: Aside from the obvious focus on gaming and emulation (think newer MAME versions, fullspeed PSX/SNES/Amiga (maybe even A1200), and faster DOSbox, plus high-res games in ScummVM and the possibility of at least some degree of N64 emulation), the number of possibilities in a device of such power is just staggering, it will easily replace my laptop as far as wireless troubleshooting goes, not to mention doubling as a PDA with Internet capabilities and X-Windows (perhaps even Compiz Fusion for added wow factor) and whatnot. For VoIP, perhaps OpenWengo could be ported. Add to that USB 2.0 Host with a useful cradle and it becomes a neat little portable media center. Plus, it's based around open source, so "sky's the limit". As far as I'm concerned, this will be the true handheld successor to the Amiga, in terms of how revolutionary it is (compare to how revolutionary the Amiga 500 was when it was first released) and the amazing community spirit surrounding it.

Maybe what is needed is something like compiling a few of the most power hungry emulators (I'm thinking SNES & Amiga, as those don't have many dependancies) and getting a list of fps for various games on both the MX31 and OMAP at various frequencies. That way we'll have some "real life" figures rather than just clock speeds, architectures and manufacturer "marketing speak" (eg. OMAP may state that there processor can be almost twice as fast as the MX31 at certain tasks, so we test that with code that will typically be run on the device).

After we have our own facts, we consider whether the price change is worth the speed performance difference?

If that's possible, it'd be nice to see some numbers of course. Though my gut feeling says the OMAP would be worth it for the SGX accellerator alone (especially considering PSX emulation and desktop compositing).

I think the price tag of £199 is way too high and will almost certainly limit sales of the unit. There still seems to be no definite direction that the unit is being pushed in so it's hard to put forward any comparisons or competitors - is it going to be going up against say the DS (at under £100) or is it going to be pushed as a more geeky/gadget fiend device and so on ?

Who is seen as the market for it regardless of price ?

I'd also like to see that question answered, not that it'd influence my decision to buy the new device even if it ends up at £199, but it'd be nice to know if this is intended as a replacement for the GP2X or a complement.

While I can agree that £199 will certainly limit sales quite a bit, perhaps it's not a bad thing. This will allow the GP2X F-200 to fill the function of being an "entry-level device", removing some of the direct competition between the two devices (there will be a market for both of them).

 

[fusion_power]

Again, you're asking the wrong question. The question isn't how many things it can do, the question is how many MORE things can it do that the GP2X can't, and whether that is worth throwing down another $400 just for those extra things. If it's worth it to you great, but just because a few more systems isn't worth $400 to me doesn't make me bad at math.

Hmm, good point. The value of an gaming device depends heavily on its Software. So for me at the current time, the new Handhelds Value in my personal sheet is 0€ because yet it has no software. This will change of course and I hope it will reach the 300€ value which means REALLY GOOD SOFTWARE. Because this takes time, I think I'm waiting a half year after the release of the Handheld and see what we've got for Software.

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that Exophase has hinted that DS emulation might be possible on the OMSP system.

DS Emulation? on another handheld? AFAIK there is no fullspeed DS Emulator even for modern high end PC's but correct me if I'm wrong. I would like to play Advance Wars Dual Strike on the new Handheld but of course I would prefer an Homebrew Game in this quality for the new Device. (Usualy Direct Homebrew needs less CPU Power than emulated games) (wink to the coders here )

Like mentioned before, the money the new device is worth depends of its Software (in my opinion) So I hope we really get Kick-Ass apps for this machine (including full Speed Emulators and good Firmware for example)

 

[A_SN]

To fusion_power : It's not the software that makes such a device's value, it's its potential. A powerful machine with no software but with a large touchscreen, wifi and good controls, etc.. is worth more than a limited machine (say, an Apple Macintosh from 1993) with a lot of software to it.

 

[jimid2]

$400 is way too much.

$400 may be too much, but £200 isn't. Things cost more over here, that is a very reasonable price for such a powerful machine. Since most of the GP2X community seems to be European, American-style ultra-cheap pricing isn't that important.

hehehe... Ya, it's definitely a matter of perspective... $400 is more than twice the cost of a PSP in North America, but only £40 more than a PSP in Europe - quite a difference, no? But I don't think most of the North American market for this system will balk too badly at a $400 price tag, if the system lives up to its incredible promise. The design is really, really going to be important, tho'... You could never sell a GP2X for $400, no matter how powerful the system inside was - it's too ugly to be an "object of desire". But look at Apple: they package a crap cell with a $200 iPod, give it an uber-slick design and they can't keep the things on the shelves at $500 a piece. Make it beautiful as well as powerful, and you will sell them.

To fusion_power : It's not the software that makes such a device's value, it's its potential. A powerful machine with no software but with a large touchscreen, wifi and good controls, etc.. is worth more than a limited machine (say, an Apple Macintosh from 1993) with a lot of software to it.

This isn't true in the "real world" - if you have to produce a report or surf the internet, a '93 Mac will do you better than a super computer with no browser or text edit software. In the world of gaming, it's well known that you need the software to sell to more than the Hardcore...

 

[fusion_power]

To fusion_power : It's not the software that makes such a device's value, it's its potential. A powerful machine with no software but with a large touchscreen, wifi and good controls, etc.. is worth more than a limited machine (say, an Apple Macintosh from 1993) with a lot of software to it.

Well, but without good Software even an Machine with a large touchscreen, wifi and good controls, etc.. is not the burner I think. A lot of devices had potential. The ATARY LYNX had potential for example, the Sega Saturn had potential for example (ok, it had nightmare complicated hardware to ^^ ) but potential isn't everything I think. The Gameboy wasn't sucessful because of its Hardware, it was sucessful because of its Software like every Nintendo console. Yes, we've talking about an Homebrew Handheld but why should it be different there?
Of course, such an powerful machine like our new Handheld have the ability to bring many devs on board, thats true. Lets see what we've got at the end.

 

[yaustar]

Remember that the £200 is inc VAT, so the US price equivalent is ~$340.

 

[Orkie]

I'm sure craig is counting on sales in america.

Why? Most of the GP2X owners seem to be in Eurasia.

 

[rx_shorty]

Well the price is good if you ask me...
You will get a very high tech machine...

 

[J201605]

I'm sure craig is counting on sales in america.

Why? Most of the GP2X owners seem to be in Eurasia.

I would assume that they are trying to sell to more people than just those who currently own gp2x's.

 

[Orkie]

I would assume that they are trying to sell to more people than just those who currently own gp2x's.

Sure, but I suspect the main focus would still be on Europe purely because it's easier for them to deal in Europe. Plus, who is more likely to buy it? Many Americans would see an extremely expensive game machine (as has already been proven), the Europeans, a reasonably priced machine.

 

[Eolair]

On one hand, if it is mainly going to be a homebrew gaming handheld then £199 might seem like too much. But I think the choice would also depend on how much cheaper a i.MX31 based device would be.

i.MX31 device priced at £149 : I'd pick the i.MX31. An extra £50 is a lot of money for just a homebrew gaming device. If using the OMAP3430 makes it that much more expensive then for the sake of sales Craigix would be better off with the i.MX31. It would most probably be a lot slower, but still be able to run most of the games and emulators that we want. The software will just need some more time and tweaking to get there.

i.MX31 device priced at £165 : I'd think more carefully about it but still probably choose the i.MX31. Even if the OMAP3430 would make the device godly I think Craigix would sell a lot more units at this price point than at £199. If he makes a lot of money maybe we can get OMAP3 the next time around. In say 3-5 years or so.

i.MX31 device priced at £175 : This is where I really start wavering. For an extra £24 I get a machine that is a world of difference in performance. It would also have a significantly longer lifetime. I don't see any gaming handheld in the foreseeable future that will be able to beat this machine. If you want the fastest you will buy this.

i.MX31 device priced at £185 : No question any longer. Without a second thought I'd go with the OMAP3430. £15 is nothing when you get that much more performance, future-proofing and gaming possibilities. It's not just emulating the systems that will be too slow with the i.MX31. It's also the realtive ease with which we will be able to get full speed emulation for systems like Amiga, PSX, SNES, etc.

On the other hand, if this device could replace a real linux handheld computer I would choose the OMAP3430 in all cases. Gaming, music, video, surfing, calender, email, possibly VoIP, etc. For such a device £199 is nothing.

Suggestion: Being able to plug a USB headset with mic into the device would be a great addition (VoIP, voice recognition, voice recorder, etc)