Opinion: What Is The Best Emulator Available on Pandora?

[TrashyMG]

Personally it's DosBox, I grew up with DOS and while I always wanted an Amiga when I was younger I just never could afford one. so UA4ALL doesn't have as much of a drive for me, plus I don't have any Amiga games where I still have all my DOS games I bought over the years.


Console, I'd say GPFCE for NES and PicoDrive for Megadrive/Genesis emulation.. both are fantastic emulators. I really love the work done on PCSX ReARMed, but I only own 4 playstation games so not as big of a draw for me.

I have to admit I found it a bit amusing to see a TRS-80 personal computer app.


Had to wonder what anyone would want with that, since it required programs to be saved to a cassette tape...so how would you load/save programs with it?

Well I had a Floppy Drive on both my Tandy TRS-80 Model I and Tandy Color Computer(s).. Also there are modern methods of converting the audio data to files and some emulators just can read a WAV or MP3 file of the audio from the data cassette.

 

[moxie]

I have to admit I found it a bit amusing to see a TRS-80 personal computer app.


Had to wonder what anyone would want with that, since it required programs to be saved to a cassette tape...so how would you load/save programs with it?

Even more amusing to see a NES emulator. I mean, the NES games came on carts bigger than the entire pandora - Where would you possibly insert that, eh?

 

[Kumaki]

I have to admit I found it a bit amusing to see a TRS-80 personal computer app.


Had to wonder what anyone would want with that, since it required programs to be saved to a cassette tape...so how would you load/save programs with it?

Even more amusing to see a NES emulator. I mean, the NES games came on carts bigger than the entire pandora - Where would you possibly insert that, eh?

Not really. Because the NES emulator can read .nes files, no cart needed.


I was not aware of any way of loading a file onto a TRS-80 emulator without using a cassette player. Apparently there is some way of doing this. Wondering where one would find TRS-80 roms, LOL. (This was NOT a serious inquiry as to where you find roms, by the way...)

 

[Kumaki]

I have to admit I found it a bit amusing to see a TRS-80 personal computer app.


Had to wonder what anyone would want with that, since it required programs to be saved to a cassette tape...so how would you load/save programs with it?

Even more amusing to see a NES emulator. I mean, the NES games came on carts bigger than the entire pandora - Where would you possibly insert that, eh?

Not really. Because the NES emulator can read .nes files, no cart needed.


I was not aware of any way of loading a file onto a TRS-80 emulator without using a cassette player. Apparently there is some way of doing this. Wondering where one would find TRS-80 roms, LOL. (This was NOT a serious inquiry as to where you find roms, by the way...)

Although...if someone could help me remember the NAME of an old TRS-80 program I once had....you flew a spaceship thru quadrants and had to fight Jovians. Is this familiar with anyone? I know it was in machine language if that helps.


I also remember you had a code you could self-destruct in this game. If, like me, you were a poor sport and would rather destroy yourself than BE destroyed, lol.

 

[moxie]

It just amuses me that you'd consider natural that a developer for a NES emulator would find an alternative way of loading carts, whilst being surprised that a developer for a TRS-80 would find an alternative way of loading tapes


Do look around: http://www.trs-80.com/ This site talks about how to transfer old TRS-80 tapes and discs to modern computers, and also has an archive of (legal) disk and tape images to try

 

[moxie]

Although...if someone could help me remember the NAME of an old TRS-80 program I once had....you flew a spaceship thru quadrants and had to fight Jovians. Is this familiar with anyone? I know it was in machine language if that helps.


I also remember you had a code you could self-destruct in this game. If, like me, you were a poor sport and would rather destroy yourself than BE destroyed, lol.

I went to that site above, to the software archive, and put in "jovians" as the search term. And, lo and behold, a game called "Jovians" popped up! I can't link to the result (weird design choice on the site) but it appears as if it is downloadable. So grab that disk image, install that TRS-80-emulator and have a go

 

[TrashyMG]

Not really. Because the NES emulator can read .nes files, no cart needed.

Well how is that .nes file created I wonder... perhaps from a cart? You think that a computer can just read those like an SD card without some weird amount of hardware trickery.. Hitching up a PC to a cassette player and converting the audio output to a digital file seems just as absurd. Yet it can be done.

 

[Kumaki]

Not really. Because the NES emulator can read .nes files, no cart needed.

Well how is that .nes file created I wonder... perhaps from a cart? You think that a computer can just read those like an SD card without some weird amount of hardware trickery.. Hitching up a PC to a cassette player and converting the audio output to a digital file seems just as absurd. Yet it can be done.

Well, I'm not as smart as that with this stuff. I'm smart enough to download stuff, and also to long ago have had someone do my stuff for me...lol

 

[Kumaki]

Although...if someone could help me remember the NAME of an old TRS-80 program I once had....you flew a spaceship thru quadrants and had to fight Jovians. Is this familiar with anyone? I know it was in machine language if that helps.


I also remember you had a code you could self-destruct in this game. If, like me, you were a poor sport and would rather destroy yourself than BE destroyed, lol.

I went to that site above, to the software archive, and put in "jovians" as the search term. And, lo and behold, a game called "Jovians" popped up! I can't link to the result (weird design choice on the site) but it appears as if it is downloadable. So grab that disk image, install that TRS-80-emulator and have a go

I can't see a download link. But, by the advertisement...it looks like that might be the game I was thinking of.

 

[skeezix]

Hummm...I never could make Hatari work for me.

What problem could you have had with Hatari? Its a pretty solid piece, and not hard to set up Let me know (I'm the maintainer.)


jeff

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Well if you code like you write Atari...


Just kidding .

 

[Kumaki]

Hummm...I never could make Hatari work for me.

What problem could you have had with Hatari? Its a pretty solid piece, and not hard to set up Let me know (I'm the maintainer.)


jeff

I could not make it run any games.


I don't understand the user interface or something, I honestly don't remember.


I know I tried, and found it too difficult.

 

[moxie]

That is actually a general problem with the computer emulators, as opposed to the consoles. The consoles are conceptually simple - You pop in a cart or a CD (and that is easily translated to "loading a rom file"), start the emulation, and off you go. The computer emus, on the other hand, actually are their own computer systems (Nah, really? Yeah, yeah, stating the obvious), which means that ideally you'd bundle the users guide for the original computer with the emu.


Also, to use them the way you'd like, you'd have to have knowledge of the possible configurations of the system in question. I have used an Atari ST, so I know that I'd have to search (in the GUI) for some way to insert disks into disk drives, and that I should click this and that to open windows or install new drives or to change from mid to low resolution (and that sometimes that must be done). These are all actions that make sense in an Atari ST context. Running some machine like a PDP-8 emu out of SIMH calls for an entirely different set of actions - Loading paper tapes on readers, switching front panel switches...And using a machine like the TSR-80 means different things again - Tapes, different DOSes, and so on. There are certain emulators I'd love to try (like the Archimedes one) but which I can't (yet), because I need to learn about the machine and how to use it.


If one really wanted to go the extra step towards making emulators be an accessible resource for computing history (and I'm in no way implying that this ought to be on Skeezix or any other particular persons responsibilites), one should start doing writeups for every emulated system - A web page with a description of an average system, the context in which it was sold and used, how it booted up and how one used the interface of the computer, a description of normal use cases ("Starting a game usually went like this...") with parallell descriptions of how to translate the physical gestures of a real system into events in the emulator GUI, and so on. And yes, there are already a million "computer history museum" sites out there, but that isn't really the same focus, and no, I haven't got time.


Anyway. Despite the fact that I made a little bit of fun of you, I do appreciate the problem. Emulation of computers, particularily the more obscure systems, really mostly is a thing for the nostalgic previous owners. Not because nobody else could enjoy it, but because you need the experience of the real machines to successfully drive the emulator.

 

[atari_afternoon]

That is actually a general problem with the computer emulators, as opposed to the consoles. The consoles are conceptually simple - You pop in a cart or a CD (and that is easily translated to "loading a rom file"), start the emulation, and off you go. The computer emus, on the other hand, ... you'd have to have knowledge of the possible configurations of the system in question.

This is actually, next to the variety, the main reason why I personally love emulation and setting up handheld consoles for emulation. Gaming is great but I enjoy fiddling around with parameters at least as much. The cart - you pop it in. The emulator - you can make it faster or slower, anything


So in this way, a home computer emulator behaves like I would expect anyway. A cartridge console emulator can be tweaked the way I enjoy it most. I love the flexibility.


I wonder how many of us had expected it to be plug+play in the first place. A little fiddling is always necessary an investment that´s well worth it I think.

 

[Kumaki]

That is actually a general problem with the computer emulators, as opposed to the consoles. The consoles are conceptually simple - You pop in a cart or a CD (and that is easily translated to "loading a rom file"), start the emulation, and off you go. The computer emus, on the other hand, actually are their own computer systems (Nah, really? Yeah, yeah, stating the obvious), which means that ideally you'd bundle the users guide for the original computer with the emu.


(snip)


Anyway. Despite the fact that I made a little bit of fun of you, I do appreciate the problem. Emulation of computers, particularily the more obscure systems, really mostly is a thing for the nostalgic previous owners. Not because nobody else could enjoy it, but because you need the experience of the real machines to successfully drive the emulator.

Exactly. And I never used an Atari ST...but I DID use a TRS80...so I'd likely find the TRS emu mush easier...just as I found the Commodore and Amiga emu's easier.


And I'm not offended you made a little bit of fun...it's ok...if one can't occasionally laugh at their own selves....


But, seriously, I just kinda gave up on the Hatari thing, because it was proving too difficult, and I DID have other Atari emu's I could use.

That is actually a general problem with the computer emulators, as opposed to the consoles. The consoles are conceptually simple - You pop in a cart or a CD (and that is easily translated to "loading a rom file"), start the emulation, and off you go. The computer emus, on the other hand, ... you'd have to have knowledge of the possible configurations of the system in question.

This is actually, next to the variety, the main reason why I personally love emulation and setting up handheld consoles for emulation. Gaming is great but I enjoy fiddling around with parameters at least as much. The cart - you pop it in. The emulator - you can make it faster or slower, anything


So in this way, a home computer emulator behaves like I would expect anyway. A cartridge console emulator can be tweaked the way I enjoy it most. I love the flexibility.


I wonder how many of us had expected it to be plug+play in the first place. A little fiddling is always necessary an investment that´s well worth it I think.

Yes...but it helps if you have experience with the real machine so that you know HOW to fiddle.

 

[sswam]

All our emulators are good.


PSX and N64 might be more impressive than NES, but they all do a good job for what they are.


It would be good to have some consistency in the controls, where possible.


- same button for quit game / soft quit emulator / emu menu - pandora?


- default folder is /media/, remember this folder


- accept symlinks to folders and roms


- page up and page down should work (could use shoulder buttons or Y / X)


- multi-character type to search - needed in minimenu and the xfce menu too


Anyone have any more ideas, re. consistency?

 

[Kumaki]

All our emulators are good.


PSX and N64 might be more impressive than NES, but they all do a good job for what they are.


It would be good to have some consistency in the controls, where possible.


- same button for quit game / soft quit emulator / emu menu - pandora?


- default folder is /media/, remember this folder


- accept symlinks to folders and roms


- page up and page down should work (could use shoulder buttons or Y / X)


- multi-character type to search - needed in minimenu and the xfce menu too


Anyone have any more ideas, re. consistency?

Now THIS s the sort of discussion I was, obliquely, trying to get to.


CONSISTENCY OF CONTROLS.


It will require agreement and collaboration, but could be done.


This is the point where I step out, and let the various coders discuss this, now that we got where I truly wanted to be.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

There's already a thread about control.


If someone remembers the title, it's now old.

 

[skeezix]

That is actually a general problem with the computer emulators, as opposed to the consoles. The consoles are conceptually simple - You pop in a cart or a CD (and that is easily translated to "loading a rom file"), start the emulation, and off you go. The computer emus, on the other hand, actually are their own computer systems (Nah, really? Yeah, yeah, stating the obvious), which means that ideally you'd bundle the users guide for the original computer with the emu.


Also, to use them the way you'd like, you'd have to have knowledge of the possible configurations of the system in question. I have used an Atari ST, so I know that I'd have to search (in the GUI) for some way to insert disks into disk drives, and that I should click this and that to open windows or install new drives or to change from mid to low resolution (and that sometimes that must be done). These are all actions that make sense in an Atari ST context. Running some machine like a PDP-8 emu out of SIMH calls for an entirely different set of actions - Loading paper tapes on readers, switching front panel switches...And using a machine like the TSR-80 means different things again - Tapes, different DOSes, and so on. There are certain emulators I'd love to try (like the Archimedes one) but which I can't (yet), because I need to learn about the machine and how to use it.


If one really wanted to go the extra step towards making emulators be an accessible resource for computing history (and I'm in no way implying that this ought to be on Skeezix or any other particular persons responsibilites), one should start doing writeups for every emulated system - A web page with a description of an average system, the context in which it was sold and used, how it booted up and how one used the interface of the computer, a description of normal use cases ("Starting a game usually went like this...") with parallell descriptions of how to translate the physical gestures of a real system into events in the emulator GUI, and so on. And yes, there are already a million "computer history museum" sites out there, but that isn't really the same focus, and no, I haven't got time.


Anyway. Despite the fact that I made a little bit of fun of you, I do appreciate the problem. Emulation of computers, particularily the more obscure systems, really mostly is a thing for the nostalgic previous owners. Not because nobody else could enjoy it, but because you need the experience of the real machines to successfully drive the emulator.

Very well said! Quoted for great justice


This is somethign easily forgotten in a rush, that sense of context; If you're coming to a (say) 'foreign' Computer and Operating System, especially a retro one with wholly different concepts than today, it can be quite a culture shock. Sometimes the emu can mask it, but other times, it cannot.


Something like the ST (and esp Amiga) had a fair variety of configurations.. monitors, disk drives, RAM, etc, flexible, like in a modern PC. Usually you don't need to fiddle, but I coudl eaily see that being overwhelming.


We've often discussed adding a simple UI on top of Hatari (it even has a protocol for communicating with external menus), but its Work, and with limited time, I'm putting it in other arenas (writing a new game, currently.)


But yeah, like that dude who did some 'instruction cards' for the emus a year or two back .. a basic intro card/html would be nice, and even includable with emus .. 'heres where to start!'


jeff