Openpandora Ltd (UK) Struck off email

[Mr_Loon]

The worst business decision he ever made in my opinion was closing down GBAX.com and deciding not to sell the WIZ or Caanoo, as it's a competitor to the Pandora...

The thing I've never been able to get my head round is why Craig did not continue to sell Pandoras after production began again in Germany.

Easy: I didn't let him.


The full plan was based on selling the Pandoras and using the full profit to fulfill the remaining orders.


I wanted to have that in my hands, as I was not sure he would've used the profit for his customers or new projects.


The first time he took orders again was when the 1GHz units had been announced...

I can 100% understand that after the 1GHz fiasco.

My understanding was that when production of rebirth models started in Germany you would use your profits from Pandora sales (from OP GmbH) to provide Pandoras to those in your pre order queue & Craig would use his profits from sales of units by OP Ltd which were to be provided by OP GmbH at shipping + production cost to provide units to his pre order queue.

i.e. The previous arrangement would be reversed.

It was quite some time ago though so apologies if my memory is letting me down.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Sure, wages, office rent... but 130K EUR...?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/rGRjQ7WOmq8?feature=oembed

 

[Miner49er]

Oh dear. Well I guess it was on the horizon for while.

I really don't want to hate Craig. He must've been under a lot of pressure but I do suspect he wasn't being 100% honest.

I've held back making this public before as I didn't want to add to his bad rep but seeing as it probably couldn't get any lower: I threw him an extra 100 quid to get mine way back and he actually had the gall to send me a knackered old one! It was dusty, hinges were floppy, the joysticks didn't work and one the shoulder buttons was broken!! It was a real kick in the balls and left a very bad taste in my mouth, even after I eventually received what appeared to be a brand new one (wifi still didn't work, despite him claiming that it did...but I hoped this was dependent on router). Yeah, wasn't happy especially after buying into all his other money-raising things too (I stopped at the ICP2..I'd had enough)

So yeah, this whole fiasco has effected how I perceive operations like this - eg. I reckon I would've bought into the Oculus Rift if it had not been for this project. My loss there I suppose.

Oh well, all's well that ends...erm terribly.

 

[Klumpen]

And people say, that one person can't change anything. Craig did.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Just read an old post by Craig where he mentioned wanting to lease the EV through his company. Figures where mentioned but let's just say it wasn't free.

 

[Miner49er]

Oh yeah, you have to give Craig a lot of credit for starting this whole thing off. His intentions were great, it's just a huge shame there were so many problems along the way. I do think he took advantage of the community though, as my last post indicates. I dunno, maybe it was a genuine mistake...or maybe he was taking the p155. Who knows. It's all a bit sad really.

 

[Klumpen]

Oh yeah, you have to give Craig a lot of credit for starting this whole thing off. His intentions were great, it's just a huge shame there were so many problems along the way. I do think he took advantage of the community though, as my last post indicates. I dunno, maybe it was a genuine mistake...or maybe he was taking the p155. Who knows. It's all a bit sad really.

I meant, that he has changed the naivety of many people, including ED.

Regarding the Pandora he didn't do as much as all the other guys, as it seems,

he just seems to have had the motivation to say "let's do it for real",

because he expected a lot of money to be made with this device, which he posted somewhere a long while ago.

 

[jottt]

I wonder why Craig has a lot more negative impact on "those kind of operations" than ED has a positive one, despite the facts that ED (and of course Notaz, Fatih, Askarus, and many more, also the ones doing "small" things, like donations) are doing much much more than any company ever would, while Craig mainly did what many companies do

We get screwed by big companies every day and it's "normal". We get screwed by Craig but now it's personal, it seems to me

 

[Miner49er]

Oh yeah, you have to give Craig a lot of credit for starting this whole thing off. His intentions were great, it's just a huge shame there were so many problems along the way. I do think he took advantage of the community though, as my last post indicates. I dunno, maybe it was a genuine mistake...or maybe he was taking the p155. Who knows. It's all a bit sad really.

I meant, that he has changed the naivety of many people, including ED.

Regarding the Pandora he didn't do as much as all the other guys, as it seems,

he just seems to have had the motivation to say "let's do it for real",

because he expected a lot of money to be made with this device, which he posted somewhere a long while ago.

Ah, I see


Well, to give him the benefit of the doubt - I think he truly wanted a product like the Pandora to exist, so therefore his passion was probably a bit more than just the money.

 

[Klumpen]

We get screwed by big companies every day and it's "normal". We get screwed by Craig but now it's personal, it seems to me

That's why he went more and more into hiding and does it like the big screwers. He learns.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

I think his business ideas and money making intentions, were directly in conflict with the nature of open source devices, and thus to an extent in conflict with the community.

A niche market and limited sales were all he could have hoped for. The OS and software was never of commercial quality at launch.

The Pandora simply was not such a device. Potentially it sure could have been.

Cartainly I can see Eds p2 doing a bit better.

 

[eazrael]

I've held back making this public before as I didn't want to add to his bad rep but seeing as it probably couldn't get any lower: I threw him an extra 100 quid to get mine way back and he actually had the gall to send me a knackered old one! It was dusty, hinges were floppy, the joysticks didn't work and one the shoulder buttons was broken!! It was a real kick in the balls and left a very bad taste in my mouth, even after I eventually received what appeared to be a brand new one (wifi still didn't work, despite him claiming that it did...but I hoped this was dependent on router). 

That's what I fear since I set him a final deadline. That I get a a broken one or even simply a brick in a parcel. Probably getting no response at all may be more favorable than this.

 

[stuart]

I've held back making this public before as I didn't want to add to his bad rep but seeing as it probably couldn't get any lower: I threw him an extra 100 quid to get mine way back and he actually had the gall to send me a knackered old one! It was dusty, hinges were floppy, the joysticks didn't work and one the shoulder buttons was broken!! It was a real kick in the balls and left a very bad taste in my mouth, even after I eventually received what appeared to be a brand new one (wifi still didn't work, despite him claiming that it did...but I hoped this was dependent on router). 

That's what I fear since I set him a final deadline. That I get a a broken one or even simply a brick in a parcel. Probably getting no response at all may be more favorable than this.

A box of spare parts would be better than nothing at all, or a brick.

 

[eazrael]

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your objection to the striking off and dissolution of the above company.

Please note that the above action has been suspended until 26/02/2014.

If you wish to maintain the objection after that date, you would need to apply again in writing enclosing documentary evidence of what action you are taking against the company. This evidence should be received at least 2 weeks before the objection expires.

If no evidence is received the striking off action will continue and this may result in the company being dissolved from the register of limited companies.

 

[hitbyambulance]

i got the same response.

 

[Exophase]

We get screwed by big companies every day and it's "normal". We get screwed by Craig but now it's personal, it seems to me

What big company has ever treated you like this? Big companies don't normally ask for the full price for devices they have yet to make, take 1.5 years longer than the expected date before they can start shipping anything, ask for more money to speed up the rate at which they can send them (which ends up not really speeding up anything), take new orders for an even more expensive newer model that they then weren't prepared to pay for and thus weren't prepared to actually send, start denying any refund requests, drop all communication entirely, then much later ask if the still outstanding customers to just write off their loss so they can strike off the company scot-free.

Craig actually got a ton more leniency than a real company ever would because people recognized he was a small player, but there are limits to these things. I said years ago, the more people go on defending and wanting to believe in things the more upset they'll be when they finally reach their limits, and that if Craig didn't deliver eventually there will be a lot of people pretty angry with him.

 

[ramboky]

What big company has ever treated you like this? Big companies don't normally ask for the full price for devices they have yet to make, take 1.5 years longer than the expected date before they can start shipping anything, ask for more money to speed up the rate at which they can send them (which ends up not really speeding up anything), take new orders for an even more expensive newer model that they then weren't prepared to pay for and thus weren't prepared to actually send, start denying any refund requests, drop all communication entirely, then much later ask if the still outstanding customers to just write off their loss so they can strike off the company scot-free.

Craig actually got a ton more leniency than a real company ever would because people recognized he was a small player, but there are limits to these things. I said years ago, the more people go on defending and wanting to believe in things the more upset they'll be when they finally reach their limits, and that if Craig didn't deliver eventually there will be a lot of people pretty angry with him.

Amen. A big company would quickly find themselves in real legal trouble if they screwed over hundreds of people in the way Craig has. The leniency people have shown him isn't admirable, it's absurd. I don't think I've ever witnessed so many people who have been so obviously ripped off defend the perpetrator to the extent seen in these forums. And it went so far that believers were attacking anyone who questioned what was really going on. 

Unbelievably, some here are still giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[jottt]

One thing first:

I never intended to defend Craig and his actions. I am fully with you when it comes to using all the legal help you can get to get back your money. Thats your right I think and I would never try to talk anyone out of it.

Besides that, I am not a native English speaker so it may happen that I do not express myself the way I intended

What big company has ever treated you like this? Big companies don't normally ask for the full price for devices they have yet to make, take 1.5 years longer than the expected date before they can start shipping anything, ask for more money to speed up the rate at which they can send them (which ends up not really speeding up anything), take new orders for an even more expensive newer model that they then weren't prepared to pay for and thus weren't prepared to actually send, start denying any refund requests, drop all communication entirely, then much later ask if the still outstanding customers to just write off their loss so they can strike off the company scot-free.

Craig actually got a ton more leniency than a real company ever would because people recognized he was a small player, but there are limits to these things. I said years ago, the more people go on defending and wanting to believe in things the more upset they'll be when they finally reach their limits, and that if Craig didn't deliver eventually there will be a lot of people pretty angry with him.

You are right, most companies do not do exactly this (to private persons at least). I was referring more to "General" stuff, and it happens all the time.... like cars with parts build in that are crappy, cost a lot to replace or where faulty in the first place and where not replaced on warranty. My Toyota car display was such a case. 3500€ replacement costs according to Toyota for replacing simple display that was misproduced (many identical issues with that series of display) AND could have been fixed for a electronically skilled person with proper tools in 2-3 hours. Mainly: Products you buy that get useless on purpose far too early...like a 600$ mobile that becomes worthless not because its old and worn out but because noone is allowed to write a decent software.

Software that looks "fine" beforehand and after you bought it you find issues that prevent you from using it properly but noone likes to fix them, because noone cares (they got the money, right?). Most German telecommunication companies also tend to show this behaviour 2 seconds after you signed the contract with them ...

Anyways:

When I decided to spend money on the Openpandora back in 2008 I pretty well knew that this is a wager. Of course I hoped it would turn out well but I knew it was a risky investment. In business terms this is probably as risky as a venture capital seedstage investment

Now again: I do not want to say anything pro-Craig. I just say: I for my part calculated with that risk (and for me I was lucky, besides the 3 years wait). If I don't want to take that (big) risk, I go and buy a finished product.Same goes for kickstarter: I love the idea and I funded quite a few things, but I know that: a) this could totally go wrong or b ) the product might not become what I hoped for. That risk is part of this kind of deal.

What Craig (probably, as we don't know for sure) did is in no way acceptable and I support every legal step to shed light on this. Especially because (and thats the only thing I take an issue here) it seems like the personal failure of a single man puts the whole idea / project in a bad light. This is not only unfair against those that put huge amounts of time/money/whatever into it and are still working on a successful product but also because I (personally) really like that kind of development. Never ever was there a chance to create such a thing, because 10 years ago you'd either need a professional financial investor or a huge amount of money. This system makes it possible to distribute risks and costs on a greater amount of people and is a lovely way of giving power back to people.

Noone would have produced a Pandora and I am pretty sure noone would have financed it.

Now this is what really pisses me of, even though I understand that if you sunk US$300 into nothing getting back your personal money is more important right now

 

[EvilDragon]

I don't think anyone blames Craig for the bad things that happened because he didn't know better.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be a lot more supportive to him if he always told honestly what's happening and proved he is trying to support his customers as good as they supported him back when the preorders started.

Heck, I'm even sure in that case many of his customers would say "Too bad I lost that money - but before Craig gets anymore trouble, I'd rather forget about it".

The problem is that no one knows what happened with all that money, he has not been supportive to his customers at all and told lies over and over again.

THAT is why people are angry now.

He started an awesome thing - the Pandora. But sadly, on the way down with all the issues he had, he somehow lost the idea that it's a community device.

The whole community here is very supportive - you couldn't wish for more. Everyone understood the issues, tried to help us finish it and now even donates that the remaining customers get their unit.

If he hadn't lost the spirit, most of his customers wouldn't have lost the faith and would still be supporting him as good as they could.

But he decided to turn his back on the customers and not tell them what happened during the last three years... sad, but his decision.

 

[SNESFAN]

anyone got craig's mailing address? I have to poop and need to know where to mail it.