Openpandora Ltd (UK) Struck off email

[Klumpen]

Stopping the struck off is just one email that doesn't cost anything.


If he can strike off the company, then nothing will be checked and the company with all its liabilities and mysteries is gone.


If striking off is stopped, there willm be a full insolvency procedure, which means the companies accountings will be thoroughly checked. In case he did anything illegal (i.e. like moving money to his own or to the iCP accounts) he'll be held personally responsible for it.

There's still an awful lot of money (about 130,000 EUR) where we have no idea where that went.

Including or excluding the part of the ICP2 kickstarter money which was supposed to be invested by him?

BTW: How much money do you have to spend on a new electric car and a 3D printer?

 

[andmaz777]

130,000 EUR is an awful lot of money to be unaccounted for and enough to probably sort all the mess out!


Not saying it has been used for anything other than what it was intended for BUT it does have to be accounted for properly.

 

[Exophase]

BTW: How much money do you have to spend on a new electric car and a 3D printer?

Craig says he leased and claims that with government subsidizing that it was basically free. I found this pretty hard to believe.

The 3D printer, Makerbot Replicator 2, costs $2199 now, I think it cost about $3000 when Craig got it (nearly 1 year ago).

 

[stuart]

If enough people complain to the various bodies listed through out this thread, then this *may* prompt an investigation. If HMRC or Trading Standards decide to show an interest, they will use their power to get to the bottom of exactly what was going on and take action if they find any illegal activities. Yes, the chances of this happening are slim, but its possible, especially if enough noise is made. Up to you. 

ED - Have you objected to companies house? I'm sure you have enough outstanding invoices to say that you still have an interest in pursuing them.....

 

[Klumpen]

Craig says he leased and claims that with government subsidizing that it was basically free. I found this pretty hard to believe

I laughed out loud back then, because it's a timeless classic heard here and there:

"How did you afford THAT?"

<Well, I got it practically for free!>

That's really dark stuff.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

So craig is eco friendly but not pandora preorder friendly.

 

[BeefJerky]

If enough people complain to the various bodies listed through out this thread, then this *may* prompt an investigation. If HMRC or Trading Standards decide to show an interest, they will use their power to get to the bottom of exactly what was going on and take action if they find any illegal activities. Yes, the chances of this happening are slim, but its possible, especially if enough noise is made. Up to you.

Agreed. And it's worth doing. It's more difficult outside the UK but there is supposed to be Europe-wide protection and I have a mail into one of these bodies at the moment after being put on to them by local consumer advice. If they turn out to be the right people to speak to, I'll get the details posted here.

 

[eazrael]

The optimum outcome: Enough people complain so the strike off is canceled and formal insolvency procedure starts. As few people as possible complain and the auditors find enough money so these few people get a bigger chunk of the cake as long as there are only small creditors.

Outcome for everybody who did nothing: nothing. In any case.

There are a bunch of ways to get active. Read the full thread.

- Complain at Google Wallet or other payment processor. (world wide)

- Complain at OpenPandora (send a reminder, invoice, deadline, whatever) (world wide)

- Try the ECC "European Consumer Centres", (EU + Norway + Iceland)

- Try a european payment order order something similar (EU except Denmark)

- Complain at the Companies House, requires any previous action (world wide)

Beware of legal pitfalls and costs. Try to google before doing anything. Ask people with legal knowledge. A bunch of options are free of charge.

Do something.

 

[ramboky]

Don't bother trying, risky, too expensive, blah blah blah...

Lets agree to disagree on the small claims option. I think it's a good idea, you don't. You think you know what you're talking about, I'm certain you have no idea. Either way, us arguing here is of no benefit to anyone. But you have to admit, unless you're as stupid as you keep saying I am, that filing an objection to Craig striking off Openpandora is a no lose option with the possibility (however remote) of a refund and a much higher possibility of repercussions for Craig. And maybe even some answers.

Or are all these people wrong too? :

Stopping the struck off is just one email that doesn't cost anything.


If he can strike off the company, then nothing will be checked and the company with all its liabilities and mysteries is gone.


If striking off is stopped, there willm be a full insolvency procedure, which means the companies accountings will be thoroughly checked. In case he did anything illegal (i.e. like moving money to his own or to the iCP accounts) he'll be held personally responsible for it.


There's still an awful lot of money (about 130,000 EUR) where we have no idea where that went.

If enough people complain to the various bodies listed through out this thread, then this *may* prompt an investigation. If HMRC or Trading Standards decide to show an interest, they will use their power to get to the bottom of exactly what was going on and take action if they find any illegal activities. Yes, the chances of this happening are slim, but its possible, especially if enough noise is made. Up to you. 

ED - Have you objected to companies house? I'm sure you have enough outstanding invoices to say that you still have an interest in pursuing them.....

The optimum outcome: Enough people complain so the strike off is canceled and formal insolvency procedure starts. As few people as possible complain and the auditors find enough money so these few people get a bigger chunk of the cake as long as there are only small creditors.


Outcome for everybody who did nothing: nothing. In any case.


There are a bunch of ways to get active. Read the full thread.


- Complain at Google Wallet or other payment processor. (world wide)


- Complain at OpenPandora (send a reminder, invoice, deadline, whatever) (world wide)


- Try the ECC "European Consumer Centres", (EU + Norway + Iceland)


- Try a european payment order order something similar (EU except Denmark)


- Complain at the Companies House, requires any previous action (world wide)


Beware of legal pitfalls and costs. Try to google before doing anything. Ask people with legal knowledge. A bunch of options are free of charge.


Do something.

^^ Do something is the key here. Ignore the pessimistic (and loud) few. you have nothing to lose.

 

[EvilDragon]

130,000 EUR is an awful lot of money to be unaccounted for and enough to probably sort all the mess out!

Not saying it has been used for anything other than what it was intended for BUT it does have to be accounted for properly.

Well, I have no idea whether it has been accounted for or not, but I just can't understand where that all disappeared...

Sure, wages, office rent... but 130K EUR...?

The worst business decision he ever made in my opinion was closing down GBAX.com and deciding not to sell the WIZ or Caanoo, as it's a competitor to the Pandora...

I sold over 1000 WIZ and Caanoo, and his shop had a lot more sales than mine before he closed it down. It could've paid wages and rent, but instead, as the Pandora had such a huge delay, he had 2 years of wages and rent without having any real income...

He tried to force me to NOT sell the WIZ as well back then - good thing I disagreed with that, as my shop and with it the Pandora would be dead as well then...

 

[stuart]

Don't see the point in the negativity. None of us need reminding that its a crappy situation. Theres loads of info here now if you do want to take action, and if you don't ... cool. Just my opinion but i think it's best to keep this thread constructive.

 

[Mr_Loon]

The worst business decision he ever made in my opinion was closing down GBAX.com and deciding not to sell the WIZ or Caanoo, as it's a competitor to the Pandora...

The thing I've never been able to get my head round is why Craig did not continue to sell Pandoras after production began again in Germany.

 

[stuart]

re small claims, not sure why anyone would think its risky or pricy.

If you are in the UK you can do this online for £25. Having the outstanding case, and hopfully the subsequent judgement which is delivered online is also enough to prevent the strike off!

 

[EvilDragon]

The worst business decision he ever made in my opinion was closing down GBAX.com and deciding not to sell the WIZ or Caanoo, as it's a competitor to the Pandora...

The thing I've never been able to get my head round is why Craig did not continue to sell Pandoras after production began again in Germany.

Easy: I didn't let him.

The full plan was based on selling the Pandoras and using the full profit to fulfill the remaining orders.

I wanted to have that in my hands, as I was not sure he would've used the profit for his customers or new projects.

The first time he took orders again was when the 1GHz units had been announced...

 

[Neelix]

You did at some point offer him a drop-shipping arrangement at some point though right?    I seem to recall being puzzled that he would turn down a chance at getting an income again in order to sulk....  (or at least that's how it seemed to me)

- Neelix

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Maybe craig lost some of that money during the creation of the pandora, and never mentioned it. He could have messed up somewhere.

 

[EvilDragon]

You did at some point offer him a drop-shipping arrangement at some point though right?    I seem to recall being puzzled that he would turn down a chance at getting an income again in order to sulk....  (or at least that's how it seemed to me)

Yes, that was AFTER the 1GHz fiasco in order to help him to finance these units as he couldn't pay them to me...

 

[notaz]

Sure, wages, office rent... but 130K EUR...?

Well if you take all the years since development started in ~2008 and take his family members involved (who were company directors, there must be a reason for that, right?), it can easily add up. Like if you take years 2009-1012 (he mentioned he'll have to get "normal" job at the end of 2012 which implies he had no job before that), and pay 3 people 800EUR/month, you already get 115k.. And we all know how he uses his "early profits" from the 3d printer case.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Yes that 3d printer, hmmmmm. Now that is interesting, it certainly did sound like he bought it from the KS ICP2 cash, judging from his KS update comment on it. If that's the case, will he sell it and give the cash back to us? Hmmm indeed


The EV he has I'm pretty certain , as others mentioned, is leased. Going by what he has said elsewhere, he leased it at a discount rate due to some government scheme. By elsewhere, I mean another unrelated forum.

 

[konqithedragon]

He said he bought it the moment the campaign ended despite the fact the icp2 was "ready to go"... 

one does not buy a 3D printer to prototype cases/etc  if it is ready to go and sold in November..a month after you buy the thing.