*nods knowingly in rohezals general direction*
Openpandora Ltd (UK) Struck off email
- Thread starter RMJ250
- Start date
Not again. -.-
It does not matter at all, what kind of mental problems he has, because it is entirely his responsibility to take care of these as a grown man before taking more and more money from people for proper management.
You cannot fuck up this big time and again, lie to people over and over again, screw them and then say "oh sorry, I'm not responsible for my actions, it's a mental problem",
oh I forgot, you never say "sorry" with Craig-Syndrome. I couldn't care less if he is a sociopath with a depression and a severe Oedipus complex still dependent on his mommy with 35,
because out of respect, every man should have the right to be an asshole and be recognized as such.
If you defend perpetrators, it's only creating more victims.
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eazrael
Member
Downloading the annual reports from companycheck is not worth the trouble. But if you register, you can see the company account table which is interesting.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06513352/OPENPANDORA-LTD/financial-accounts#financials
I won't publish the data (dunno know if that would be a copyright infringement). But the interesting things are:
- All the liabilities are from "Trade Creditors" (e.g. the Preorder People). The help for this says "The amount owing to suppliers for goods and services provided on credit." No Bank loans.
- What happened in the fiscal year 2012-2013? OP Ltd had an operating loss of 130k GBP. Debt out of nowhere?
Unluckily the turnover is not part of the information.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06513352/OPENPANDORA-LTD/financial-accounts#financials
I won't publish the data (dunno know if that would be a copyright infringement). But the interesting things are:
- All the liabilities are from "Trade Creditors" (e.g. the Preorder People). The help for this says "The amount owing to suppliers for goods and services provided on credit." No Bank loans.
- What happened in the fiscal year 2012-2013? OP Ltd had an operating loss of 130k GBP. Debt out of nowhere?
Unluckily the turnover is not part of the information.
Morn
Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2010
- Messages
- 292
In Germany you can't even start a limited company with only £3 initial capital. IRRC the limit is 25 000€. Even here, in Poland as the limit has been significantly lowered in recent years it's still an equivalent of about 1200€.
eazrael
Member
Same happened in Germany with a new law. As everybody started to found Ltd. in GB while working in Germany (thanks EU!). The new german "Limited" is thought a company to start a regular Limited company. You have save money to reach the 25000€ for a regular limited. But german banks hesitate to give loans to regular companies with a capital of 25k€ or more. Because if the company folds they loose their money. So they always additional warranties/securities from the owners. Or at least some natural Person to be hold liable.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Some might think the only reason it's so cheap and easy to set up a company in the UK is that's how we end up selling dodgy British weapons to people we shouldn't do. There are hundreds if not thousands of dummy companies in the UK, most of which don't submit accounts like they ought to, so it's not possible to know what they're up to. At least Craig submitted reports, so it's possible to find out certain things.
Speaking of his debts, I wonder if he's counting the money he owes ED for (iirc) 1GHz units?
Speaking of his debts, I wonder if he's counting the money he owes ED for (iirc) 1GHz units?
And what qualifies you to be the judge of what having a mental illness is like? It's this sort of bigoted bull that makes my life substantially more difficult. I get that you're German and that no Germans ever behave irrationally :rolleyes: but, it doesn't change the reality that if Craig has a mental illness that would explain a lot of the weirdness with his business. It also means that all the Craig bashing that goes on is completley counterproductive as it's nuts to suggest that one would choose to deal with the stress he's dealing with if there were a simple solution to it.
It's absolutely ridiculous to pretend like having a diagnosable mental illness isn't a legitimate reason for one to perform poorly compared with people who haven't got one.
This is a detail that people miss when they're wanting to sue Craig or Craig's business. Craig owes both me and ED some money for the upgrade I had to do to ED's shop in order to get my unit. Consequently if I were to file suit against Craig and win, and if ED were to do the same, Craig would be on the hook for more money than he owes. And not just the legal fees and whatever penalties either.
Granted filing a proper suit in big boy court is likely the only way to really figure out what happened, well if anything can, but apart from answers, I doubt that anything productive will result.
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This.
And also, to add: There is a difference between finding or offering an explanation for the cause of some actions, and "defending" or "excusing" said actions. Not to say that this is (or isn't) a true account of whatever has become of Craig, but if that is so, then it goes a long way towards answering all the "But why oh why did he do this?" questions. It would also help in deciding what would be the best course of action, should one want to try to salvage anything from this mess. It does not absolve Craig from his legal and moral responsibilities (or, well, unless this is far more serious than we would think), but it would explain how we got here.
More or less, we don't know that Craig is mentally ill, but it wouldn't surprise me if he had bipolar, some of his antics look a bit like bipolar, but I'm not a mental health professional and I'm certainly not in a position to have access to the information that would be needed to make a diagnosis anyways.
One of the sad facts here is that when he was still posting he was getting crap when he'd try to fill us in and he'd get crap when it would change, regardless of whether or not it was his fault. Then he held back on information and people gave him crap about that.
A lot of people here lost money and it's understandable for people to be upset, but the comments about sending him excrement in the mail and the various threats are not helping the situation. I can only imagine what it would be like dealing with the tomfoolery over at CC and having the mobs out for my head when things weren't working right. I think in hindsight it might have made more sense for ED to have handled the CC situation, or somebody that's more detail oriented.
What's worse is the general abuse that Craig's family has been through. People are upset, but that's really no excuse for abusing anybody.
stuart
Member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2010
- Messages
- 93
I suffer from magor depressive episodes and a sometmes debilitating anxiety disorder which i manage to the best of my ability. Yes, of course it makes some things more difficult than they would be had I not been affected by these things, but when i sign a contract on behalf of my business it doesnt stop me from understanding the terms of that contract and my obligations should I choose to take on the commitment.
I have to be realistic in taking on only what I can deal with beacause, issues or not, I am soley and fully responsable for delivering services I've agreed to deliver. If i take payment and do not deliver, I am in breech of contract no matter what and my inability to deliver what i said i could and would will have a destructive domino effect.
Of course im sympathetic towards anyone suffering from mental illness but, there really can't be any excuses in business. I won't be made to feel guilty for any action I have taken as a creditor, especially since this is merely speculation. Delivering my work on time has, in the past made me very ill... did I deliver on time... yes, did my clients have any idea I was ill... NO..... just the same as technical issues forced me to work 16 hour days for 2 weeks to catch up.... never told the client as its not their problem.
If you take it upon youself to take money from, and enter into a contract with others, you must make sure that contract is satisfied. BPD does not stop you from understanding good advice from others and your own liabilities. I can just imagine trying this excuse with the tax man if I was late paying, it just wouldnt wash.
I have to be realistic in taking on only what I can deal with beacause, issues or not, I am soley and fully responsable for delivering services I've agreed to deliver. If i take payment and do not deliver, I am in breech of contract no matter what and my inability to deliver what i said i could and would will have a destructive domino effect.
Of course im sympathetic towards anyone suffering from mental illness but, there really can't be any excuses in business. I won't be made to feel guilty for any action I have taken as a creditor, especially since this is merely speculation. Delivering my work on time has, in the past made me very ill... did I deliver on time... yes, did my clients have any idea I was ill... NO..... just the same as technical issues forced me to work 16 hour days for 2 weeks to catch up.... never told the client as its not their problem.
If you take it upon youself to take money from, and enter into a contract with others, you must make sure that contract is satisfied. BPD does not stop you from understanding good advice from others and your own liabilities. I can just imagine trying this excuse with the tax man if I was late paying, it just wouldnt wash.
Oookay....
So according to my calculations, he should've about 150 preorders left (which would be approx. 60,000 EUR if one preorder is 400 EUR... but most of them should be less, like 200 - 300 EUR).
According to the survey, we know there are about 550 preorders left (which would be approx. 160,000 EUR if one preorder is 400 EUR).
If that number is true, it would mean he has 1000 - 1500 preorders left... which should be almost impossible.
And these suddenly appeared in 2012 / 2013...? Even weirder.
That's true, but those people didn't start doing that before he posted lies, discredited respectable members like notaz and other community members.
And even then most in the community were very helpful and I also tried to help him as good as possible.
Unfortunately, he rejected any help he could get and was dishonest with both me and the community and (which is worse) his remaining preorders.
I'm pretty sure if that hadn't happen, no one would like to send excrements to him.
It's beyond ridiculous that unqualified people, none of whom have ever met Craig face to face, are even suggesting a possible mental illness as a reason for his actions. First everyone is a lawyer and now we're all psychologists? Good grief.
And it's ironic that Stuart, the first person to get off his arse and actually do something and someone who clearly believes we're responsible for our actions, regardless of our mental state, is also someone who suffers from a serious mental illness. I have a lot of respect for him.
Until Craig faces up to any of this he doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy. Especially not sympathy based on a mental illness diagnosis concocted by a bunch of unqualified people who've never met him.
And it's ironic that Stuart, the first person to get off his arse and actually do something and someone who clearly believes we're responsible for our actions, regardless of our mental state, is also someone who suffers from a serious mental illness. I have a lot of respect for him.
Until Craig faces up to any of this he doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy. Especially not sympathy based on a mental illness diagnosis concocted by a bunch of unqualified people who've never met him.
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comradekingu
Glowing ember
Before the voluntary dissolution there was a "change of officers"
07/11/2013 Miss D.L. Jones has left the board
It also says: 4 days ago
05/12/2013
New Accounts Filed 05/12/2013
New Accounts Filed 05/12/2013
07/11/2013 Miss D.L. Jones has left the board
It also says: 4 days ago
05/12/2013
New Accounts Filed 05/12/2013
New Accounts Filed 05/12/2013
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WizardStan
Mega GP Mania
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 16,731
I suspect she was "fired" (most likely entirely voluntarily) to avoid getting caught up in the mess any more than she has to. For the best.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
If he has a mental illness he shouldn't even take the stress of handling a business in the first place, because it's tough EVEN for normal people.
Second, Craig has been abusing people all over the boards in the past year or so, while he used to have so much support from the community at the time of the ICP2, not too long ago. When you shit on your friends, why are you surprised if they don't smile back ?
waldorfmuppet
Still Fresh
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3
I'm surprised that no-one has noted that £135 740 at a conversion rate of $1.54 : £1 is $209 100
Not that I'm suggesting anything but is it possible that OpenPandora subsumed the liability for delivering the iControlPad-2 but any related money passed straight through the company so didn't end up on the bottom line.
Not that I'm suggesting anything but is it possible that OpenPandora subsumed the liability for delivering the iControlPad-2 but any related money passed straight through the company so didn't end up on the bottom line.
sebt3
homebrew player (P. & C.)
Cannot these preorders be all false ?I mean maybe your counting is right and some nasty guys are faking a preorder number to get cheap pandora ?
waldorfmuppet
Still Fresh
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3
They are liabilities, so unless someone (or in fact around 500 people) suddenly went to Craig in 2012/2013 and said "hey - what happened to my Pandora" and quoted what looked like valid order numbers that Craig had previously not accounted for (although surely he then should have had to re-state previous years accounts?) then no.
A liabiliity in this case is where he has promised to deliver or pay for something and has yet to do so, so is liable to provide goods to that value or a refund of that value (assuming of course the company continues to trade). Taking on a long term lease or contract would also leave him with a liability as he he contracted and hence liable to pay for that under the terms of the lease.
As far as I have seen (as a lurker since 2008) Craig was not selling large amounts of any product during that tax year so I can only think (and I am neither an accountant or lawyer - this is pure unfounded speculation and I am not casting aspersions on OpenPandora Ltd) that he has subsumed that liability from another company or has been found wanting in a court of law for payment of that value. What I cannot understand also is the £28k increase in liabilities during the previous year although that could be unpaid and hence owed wages or some such (or was that the 1GHz orders?)
It's not ironic, there's always sell outs. I've known plenty of people with bipolar and it's a very different beast from major depression or anxiety. No offense to Stuart, but it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that having one diagnosable mental illness qualifies him to state what somebody with a completely different mental illness can and can't do. As I said previously, I'm not in a position to diagnose Craig, but his behavior patterns would be consistent with what I've seen in people with bipolar.
My memory is a bit hazy, but when was that video where he fell off the roof of the house? I thought that happened before a lot of the members really trying to get him. From what I've seen of his behavior, it sounds very much like he ought to be on mood stabilizers and getting some medical attention.
It wouldn't be surprising if he had bipolar. Often times people with bipolar have the sort of infectious energy that causes things to drive forward that wouldn't normally. But, the flip side tends to cause problems as well when they burn out. I think if we go back those mood swings were there from early on, it's just that nobody started paying attention until later on.
As far as lieing goes, that was something that happened later. Early on, he seemed to be naively repeating what CC told him. Some of that later stuff I have a hard time imagining how he was being honest. I'm still not sure about all that stuff that happened after the bail out. It doesn't really square in any way I can imagine.
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It's beyond ridiculous that people who obviously cannot read (explanation != sympathy) apparently feel certain enough about other people that they can unequivocally state that they have never met Craig and are unqualified when it comes to psychological or mental problems. Possibly even without meeting them, eh?
The point is not sympathy. The point is to try to figure shit out. The point is to try to ascertain what to expect, what kind of actions might actually be fruitful and what is just a dead end. I don't think anybody would disagree with Ekianjo above, i.e.
In fact, most of us would agree on that even when taking out the "mental illness" bit. However, that is not the point. We all know that. Also, it does not change Craigs professional responsibilities. It might change the way someone would go about things trying to get their money back, or moderate their expectations of the result.
As for the baseless speculation: Well, I've seen people speculating that Craig acts the way he does because he's running a grand scheme to take off with all the monies. I've seen people speculating about cocaine addiction. I can't really see why speculating about BPD would be very much different.
