@Levi That was your choice and probably a good one. But there are a number of people out there who haven't taken up ED's offer for whatever reason and are still waiting on a Pandora or refund from Craig. Those people should be filing a claim before it's too late. But aside from a lot of complaining and (up until recently) an inexplicable amount of Craig-love here, nothing is likely to happen.
Openpandora Ltd (UK) Struck off email
- Thread starter RMJ250
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Trip
Sorry, but I suck at explaining stuff :P
I'm sorry for everyone that hasn't received their Pandora from Craig.
I'd have been in the same boat if my mother hadn't lent me £100 to upgrade with ED, as there would have been no way that I could have afforded it otherwise
An easy way to go about this could be to create an on-line petition and get all the people from the forum who never received anything to sign it. The petition could then be forwarded to trading standards along with proof and a request for an investigation.
Not too sure if this would work or not though?
I'd have been in the same boat if my mother hadn't lent me £100 to upgrade with ED, as there would have been no way that I could have afforded it otherwise
An easy way to go about this could be to create an on-line petition and get all the people from the forum who never received anything to sign it. The petition could then be forwarded to trading standards along with proof and a request for an investigation.
Not too sure if this would work or not though?
I doubt that would work. What you'd want to do is file a complaint directly with them. A petition itself isn't likely to be valid, you've got no way of knowing which ones are valid and which ones aren't, until there's an investigation. I'd bet that people filing their complaints directly would have more of an effect.I'm sorry for everyone that hasn't received their Pandora from Craig.
I'd have been in the same boat if my mother hadn't lent me £100 to upgrade with ED, as there would have been no way that I could have afforded it otherwise
An easy way to go about this could be to create an on-line petition and get all the people from the forum who never received anything to sign it. The petition could then be forwarded to trading standards along with proof and a request for an investigation.
Not too sure if this would work or not though?
Or at least that's how we do things in the US. Generally you'd file a complaint with the State Attorney General's office with relevant facts and they might take it up if there's public interest in the matter. Although considering that the businesses are out of business, I doubt they'd bother.
There is the sentence that causes the current state in which nothing will be tried at all and Craig goes on happily ever after.
I am so happy, that my money went to ED (and to the previous owner of my first Pandora).
Have you looked at the list of Craigs previous companies? It is quite long.
Of course there is public interest, if a weasel opens up companies at a regular basis and does fishy stuff with lots of other peoples money.
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pmprog
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Or maybe the people talking aren't actually involved? ie, already have their Pandoras, whether from Craig or from ED direct or cross-upgrade
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hitbyambulance
Active Member
I asked earlier in the thread what a non (UK) resident pre-orderer who hasn't received their Pandora could do, but no one responded. So... what is the process? How much does it cost to file a claim - 300.00GBP?
This was the information I found, but I'm not sure it's fully relevant - http://www.tsol.gov.uk/Publications/Scheme_Publications/company_restoration_Oct_2011.pdf
This was the information I found, but I'm not sure it's fully relevant - http://www.tsol.gov.uk/Publications/Scheme_Publications/company_restoration_Oct_2011.pdf
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There are some, at least on the Survey-List.
pmprog
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I don't think anyone here knows, my best suggestion is to see if you can speak to a local (to you) solicitor/lawyer and ask them what the best course of action is. Even if they don't know UK law, they should be able to tell you who you'd need to speak to (I would have thought)
No, what causes the current state is Craig. We still don't have any evidence of criminal wrong doing and as this is a ltd, the only way to get anything out of Craig would be if he had violated the relevant regulations and made himself liable anyways.
This is hardly the only business that's been handled like this. It's the risk of doing business with an LTD, the proprietors are not held responsible the way they are in other types of business.
Unless there's evidence that he's somehow broken the law, there's nothing that they'd be able to do. Being an incompetent businessman is hardly illegal, otherwise the entire banking industry would be serving time in prison. The government in most places isn't able to go in and intervene just because somebody runs a string of failing businesses. In fact around here it tends to be encouraged as the pluses tend to outweigh the minuses. So, we get a fair number of failures, but the successes more than make up for it. That's why people need to do their due diligence before investing.
If you're not in the UK, don't bother. Any legal proceedings would have to be brought in Craig's local court. The cost of a one way ticket alone is likely to absorb anything that you'd win. And most likely you'd wind up in small claims court.
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stuart
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Actually I was told it can be. A company director who manages his companies funds badly or makes risky or incompetent investments can be prosecuted. Of course it wouldn't happen here I shouldn't think but a company director can be held accountable for incompetent management of his companies funds.
My accountant always told me, if I were to invest several grand of my ltd companies money in a scheme to transfer a Nigerian prince's business assets to the UK, and that investment ruined the company, I could actually be prosecuted.
I am VERY surprised that no one has yet formally objected to OpenPandora LTD's application to be struck off.
I think it at least should be looked in to as if they have siphoned off money from the original OP preorders and put them towards another business, then thats just wrong. Also - they seem to blame circuit co a LOT - I don't understand it, if they were REALLY to blame that much, then there surely would have been a way to resolve the issue, obtain a partial refund, take legal action. With that sort of money at steak, if they really did ruin the business and there was a case, many lawyers would have taken it on as a 'no win no fee'.
Sorry if I've missed something and got the wrong end of the stick, been very busy these last years and not really kept up with the OP news. All I know is I still want one of these things, I truly thought that by putting my money up there in 2010 and being patient I was one of the good guys, supporting the project.
It truly hurts to feel like and be referred to as part of the problem :-(
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I take it you don't know how the US banking industry has been run the last few decades. It's an industry built upon fraud and to date there's been no interest in prosecuting all but the most blatantly obvious cases. Issuing credit to people that were clearly not capable of paying it back, filing fraudulent paper work, then selling the debt to somebody else has been common. Not to mention the various tricks used to get people to pay fees that they shouldn't have to pay.
But, even worse was the insurance fraud that was credit default swaps. Buying insurance on somebody else's paper and hoping that it would go bankrupt. Had the banking industry not engaged in that, the US Federal Government could have bought out all the bad debt for less than what they finally paid.
stuart
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@Hedwards - Yipes.... of course we've had similar things here in the UK, but none so blatently wrong. I think the point is, that sort of thing is probably illigal over there as it is over here - but no one seems to care. Our banks were bailed out by our tax money, then the government tried to lean on them to stimulate the econamy by providing easier small business loans and better first time mortgages. They just laughed!
stuart
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Well - I don't know if you guys think there's any point, but I've objected officially to the strike off application.
This can be done if you are a creditor by sending an email with the objection and any supporting information to enquiries@companieshouse.gov.uk
I was very suprised when I spoke to companies house today to find that not one person had objected. I suggest everyone who can does - If only to prompt an investigation. It may be that nothing untoward has taken place, but I think there's enough doubt that an investigation would be welcome.
I am thinking of following this up with a moneyclaim online application for the amount I paid. I'm not sure it will be worth it, but if companies house and HMRC investigate and find that there are irregualities with drawings and business to business transfers, then it may be succesfull.
The thing that really stings, is that Openpandora LTD were actually in breech of contract quite early on, and they broke several trading standards rules. I was aware of this but I thought, by not pressuring them and waiting as long as it took, I was a supporter.
I guess I was nieve for not forseeing this end result. I also said, "thats not going to be popular in a million years, its too silly' when I first heard 'What does the fox say" so my judgment seems way off.
Anyway - I wonder what you guys think. I may just go through the motions on a matter of principal, and If I get anything back I'll donate it to the fund.
Still REALLY want a pandora - even though, when I first ordered, I didn't even own an iPhone. A Lot's changed and I still want one!
This can be done if you are a creditor by sending an email with the objection and any supporting information to enquiries@companieshouse.gov.uk
I was very suprised when I spoke to companies house today to find that not one person had objected. I suggest everyone who can does - If only to prompt an investigation. It may be that nothing untoward has taken place, but I think there's enough doubt that an investigation would be welcome.
I am thinking of following this up with a moneyclaim online application for the amount I paid. I'm not sure it will be worth it, but if companies house and HMRC investigate and find that there are irregualities with drawings and business to business transfers, then it may be succesfull.
The thing that really stings, is that Openpandora LTD were actually in breech of contract quite early on, and they broke several trading standards rules. I was aware of this but I thought, by not pressuring them and waiting as long as it took, I was a supporter.
I guess I was nieve for not forseeing this end result. I also said, "thats not going to be popular in a million years, its too silly' when I first heard 'What does the fox say" so my judgment seems way off.
Anyway - I wonder what you guys think. I may just go through the motions on a matter of principal, and If I get anything back I'll donate it to the fund.
Still REALLY want a pandora - even though, when I first ordered, I didn't even own an iPhone. A Lot's changed and I still want one!
Finally someone who acts. I like you.
stuart
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Imteresting - I've just been looking through my correspondence:
This is from Jacquelyn at OpenPandora Ltd
None of this seems in keeping with the spirit of the project or the people supporting it, and I for one feel more duped and mislead the more I read back on the details. I should have asked for a refund in the early days and just purchased directly from ED. Ugh!
This is from Jacquelyn at OpenPandora Ltd
I forwarded this email from OPL to Circuitco at the time and asked if they cared to comment: they sent the following
They also stated:
Which directly contridicts the claims made by OPL.
None of this seems in keeping with the spirit of the project or the people supporting it, and I for one feel more duped and mislead the more I read back on the details. I should have asked for a refund in the early days and just purchased directly from ED. Ugh!
No surprise. I just wonder what Craig actually did with all the money, that he seems to have been keeping here and there at different occasions, IF he has been keeping it.
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Not remotely surprised. Guessing we'll never know the details but I couldn't help but wonder when I saw similar stuff happening very recently with the icp2 - what kind of contracts allow for delivery (or even non-delivery) of products that aren't fit for purpose yet still require full and then seemingly ever increasing payment? Something never smelled right about that one.
