Open... and close... and open...


It of course makes sense to look for a solution where overvolting is not necessary, which is my understanding of the current situation re the 4GB issue.

Solution without overvolting: 2GB units apparently work fine.

"4GB problem" exists, and is delaying rollout as it becomes an increasing time sink, due to community unneeded spec chasing. There hasn't yet been any actual need for 4GB. On the contrary, the actual devs with actual experience with actual hardware have presented actual testing showing that 2GB is a better fit to the OMAP. So, the whole "4GB problem" fault lies firmly on the community's shoulders.

Regardless of how we got here, though, solutions need to be found. ED is doing a great job of getting the right people working on it.

A potential solution?: 2GB units running ~1.5Ghz. 4GB units running ~1Ghz. (Or whatever can be stable.)

I still hope they can get the 4GB running at full speed on the optimized boards. I'm not sure if those exist yet though.
 
Solution without overvolting: 2GB units apparently work fine.

"4GB problem" exists, and is delaying rollout as it becomes an increasing time sink, due to community unneeded spec chasing. There hasn't yet been any actual need for 4GB. On the contrary, the actual devs with actual experience with actual hardware have presented actual testing showing that 2GB is a better fit to the OMAP. So, the whole "4GB problem" fault lies firmly on the community's shoulders.

Regardless of how we got here, though, solutions need to be found. ED is doing a great job of getting the right people working on it.

A potential solution?: 2GB units running ~1.5Ghz. 4GB units running ~1Ghz. (Or whatever can be stable.)

I still hope they can get the 4GB running at full speed on the optimized boards. I'm not sure if those exist yet though.
Uhh... making it out to sound like "Hey, it's the community's fault, great job holding it up guys, if only you would've picked 2GB this would've been easier" is pretty rude of you.

~70% of the community wants those 4 GB boards; EvilDragon and company are doing their best to bring it to us, and if for some reason they literally can't get it to happen at 1.35V, then I guess we'll be asked what to do then. I have a feeling as long as it won't fry our Pyras, most of us will be just fine with the RAM running at 1.39V, as while it is a bigger drain on the battery, it'd be a difference of what... 20 minutes of battery life? At most?

Yes, we have to wait longer while they try to sort it out. But I'd rather they sort it out if at all possible.

Not only that, "2 GB is a better fit for the OMAP" is ridiculous. OMAP 5 is known to support up to 8 GB of RAM. There is no "the hardware doesn't support it" like you're trying to assert - it does; it's just for some reason the combination of this chip and this amount of RAM (and possibly other factors, like the RAM timings) is making it not play nice at fullspeed. They just have to figure out why it's not playing nicely, which they are doing (and have temporarily worked around by slightly bumping up the RAM voltage - which is still within spec of what the RAM can handle). Last I heard they apparently got it somewhat working and it was a matter of RAM timings.

I know I'd be very unhappy if I had to lose literally 1/3rd of my processing power just for some RAM issue, especially when a very slight voltage nudge makes it stable, and with a few more weeks they'll probably have it knocked out and we won't need that either.

So in short, keep your pants on. Yes, waiting sucks. But we're ALL waiting - and needless to say, the 72% of the community that wants a 4GB unit would represent a MAJORITY, not a minority, of customers. Pissing them off just to make the remainder happy is not good business sense.
 
Last edited:
I want to have a stable Pyra, and i can waiting for - its no problem. The 4GB Version is a nice to have for me. I only want coding, writing, surfing, gaming, loving, watching. If ED would ask me, what would i choose: a) the 2GB Version at Christmas 2017, or b) the 4GB Version at Christmas 2018, i would take the 2GB Version.

The most important thing for me is stability, not having a big XXX.
 
Last edited:
2GB units apparently work fine
8 years ago my Pandora worked perfectly fine, it did everything I needed it to with it's 512MB of RAM.
Today, it still does almost everything I need it to, but if I were granted one wish to upgrade a component it would be more RAM. It is almost impossible to use the internet to any substantial degree on such a small amount any more. You get 2, 3, maybe 4 tabs, and it's all gone. I've encountered such interactive websites that just suck it all up entirely and my Pandora comes to a grinding halt as Firefox or Chromium struggle to compress or swap or whatever it is they do. If would've asked me whether I thought I'd be needing more RAM to browse web pages 8 years ago I would've said no. The web changed drastically in ways I didn't expect.
2GB is plenty for today, sure. It's probably plenty for most tasks in the future, but we have no idea of knowing what paradigm shift is going to happen that may make it more obsolete than it ought to be.
That is why I want 4GB: even if I don't need it now, even if I just shut off half of it to save battery, the extra cost is well worth the attempted future proofing in my mind and wallet.
That isn't to say we should just throw everything we can into it "just in case": RAM is a special case in that more can always be used even if it isn't strictly needed, if for nothing else than just caching.
 
Keeping extra ram for future use is the same reason I ordered the 4gb as well. With software requiring higher specs than it did ten years ago I'd rather have double the ram just in case it's needed. I hope Ed is able to have updated boards at that point but this will last a long time otherwise. At least with more RAM it might make more games play more smoothly than it would have with half the ram. Even if it ends up cutting the battery life some, it's comforting to know we can replace a worn out battery when the time comes.
 
8 years ago my Pandora worked perfectly fine, it did everything I needed it to with it's 512MB of RAM.
..snip...
I've encountered such interactive websites that just suck it all up entirely and my Pandora comes to a grinding halt as Firefox or Chromium struggle to compress or swap or whatever it is they do.

That's why I am glad my Pandora can run firefox, so that I can use noscript on it. I tend to avoid sites that need oodles of scripts just to read a page on my Pandora, although to be fair I tend to do similar on my main x86 machines too, although not to the same degree. Occasionally on my PCs I have to quit firefox because it's decided to eat 100% of one of my cores, although only about as often as I have to kill LXpanel for the same offence.
 
Solution without overvolting: 2GB units apparently work fine.

"4GB problem" exists, and is delaying rollout as it becomes an increasing time sink, due to community unneeded spec chasing. There hasn't yet been any actual need for 4GB. On the contrary, the actual devs with actual experience with actual hardware have presented actual testing showing that 2GB is a better fit to the OMAP. So, the whole "4GB problem" fault lies firmly on the community's shoulders.

Regardless of how we got here, though, solutions need to be found. ED is doing a great job of getting the right people working on it.

A potential solution?: 2GB units running ~1.5Ghz. 4GB units running ~1Ghz. (Or whatever can be stable.)

I still hope they can get the 4GB running at full speed on the optimized boards. I'm not sure if those exist yet though.

From what I gather from IRC and the mailing list, there is no currently known work-around that makes 4GB stable on more than one board.
 
As the official spokes person for the community... Let's just go live with the 4GB chips disabled to 2GB...

LZsRtcX.png

[doublepost=1504482145,1504482111][/doublepost]This thread is now about shipping

upload_2017-9-4_9-42-8.png
 
8 years ago my Pandora worked perfectly fine, it did everything I needed it to with it's 512MB of RAM.
Today, it still does almost everything I need it to, but if I were granted one wish to upgrade a component it would be more RAM. It is almost impossible to use the internet to any substantial degree on such a small amount any more. You get 2, 3, maybe 4 tabs, and it's all gone. I've encountered such interactive websites that just suck it all up entirely and my Pandora comes to a grinding halt as Firefox or Chromium struggle to compress or swap or whatever it is they do. If would've asked me whether I thought I'd be needing more RAM to browse web pages 8 years ago I would've said no. The web changed drastically in ways I didn't expect.
2GB is plenty for today, sure. It's probably plenty for most tasks in the future, but we have no idea of knowing what paradigm shift is going to happen that may make it more obsolete than it ought to be.
That is why I want 4GB: even if I don't need it now, even if I just shut off half of it to save battery, the extra cost is well worth the attempted future proofing in my mind and wallet.
That isn't to say we should just throw everything we can into it "just in case": RAM is a special case in that more can always be used even if it isn't strictly needed, if for nothing else than just caching.

And for an upgrade board a year after release, it would have been awesome. Where the RAM doubling went wrong for the initial release was when 1. The community pushed for a pre-sale specification that 2. Had no working/operational example and 3. Was not necessary for launch units and 4. Has no current sane need/use.

Claiming that 4GB gives "future proofing" fails if there is no known present state.

Pyra could initially ship at 2GB and save 4GB for an upgrade board some day if it can then be reliable.

I know of no examples of working devices that reliably use 4GB or 8GB of RAM on an OMAP. Does anyone?

If they solve it, fantastic. But, personally, I don't see only 2GB as a show stopper. 4GB only exists as an order option because of irrational hype & fear driven by a few and followed by too many.
 
Honestly, I wanted 4GB for one reason, and that was modded Minecraft. But if it's delayed the Pyra too much, I'm regretting that. I also want lots of RAM for having a Google Keep electron app running in the taskbar, because I use it to set reminders, but I could always use something less memory hungry that does the same thing. Although it wouldn't sync, but I could just only set reminders on the Pyra itself.

In short, I think 2GB would have also been enough.
 
I ordered a 4GB version as others have said not to feel limited byt the 2GB option down the lane. But I don't care either way, to me the most important is to get a Pyra with 2GB or 4GB. The sooner the better.
 
Honestly, I wanted 4GB for one reason, and that was modded Minecraft. But if it's delayed the Pyra too much, I'm regretting that. I also want lots of RAM for having a Google Keep electron app running in the taskbar, because I use it to set reminders, but I could always use something less memory hungry that does the same thing. Although it wouldn't sync, but I could just only set reminders on the Pyra itself.

In short, I think 2GB would have also been enough.
I don't see any reason why it should hold up the 2GB version. If that doesn't have any problems, just ship it out for those that want it.

Good things come to those that wait (just a little longer) :)

I'd settle for 2GB. If I needed to.
 
But how expensive would that be? If 10x the insulation performance comes with 10x the cost, then it's not exactly worth it.
it is cheap (even sold on amazon ) widely used in electronics as substrate, e.g. as PCB which transfers the heat better away
 
Last edited:
If the 4GB issue is the last thing that retains the pyra from shipping i would set a deadline for finding the issue, let's say 6 weeks.
If its not possible to find, just sell the 2GB edition.
But actually i think its not the last issue as the OS is still not finished.
Should we do a poll which preorders wouldn't buy a pyra if it has 2GB instead of 4GB?
 
Back
Top