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Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. ClockworkCoder

    ClockworkCoder Active Member

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    So to summarise what you're saying: the specification for the Pyra as advertised, and pre-ordered by ~90% of individuals, was inadequately researched and ill-conceived from the start? Or did I misunderstand?

    Somehow I doubt that this was actually the case.

    Like a few others, I simply want the best specification possible for the price, but lack the technical knowledge here regarding what is actually feasible, or practical.
     
  2. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

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    Yes inadequately researched and ill-conceived. Seems to have been offered as a result of irrational community pressures before it could be properly researched.

    Doubt all you want. Read the history and the piles of posts from @Mr_Loon pushing for it and @TrashyMG responses proving through testing & videos of it being wholy unnecessary.

    People ordered, "The best" spec. The price difference was small. That is natural & normal when presented that choice. It is why car dealers do not bother to stock, "base models".

    At best it gives $pec $heet Credit$ and some theoretical RAM headroom -beyond what the OMAP can keep up with processing (actual testing)- at expense of 5-15% battery life penalty. But, very few of the people ordering saw or understood these points and, Moar is Better, right?
     
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  3. tarator

    tarator Member

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    I plan also to do some Java-programming on the Pyra, while travelling.
    (Web-Applications with Eclipse as IDE and Firefox or any other browser)
    I'm afraid this is not feasible with 2GB of RAM.
     
    Djoga'Ro likes this.
  4. Kippykip

    Kippykip BFG 9000

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    If the boards have to be reduced to 2GB, I don't know if I'd be still willing to keep up with the pre-order to be completely honest.
    As I would be paying a premium for postage and the device that would be kinda underpowered to something like a GPD-Win which is quite a bit cheaper.
    The absolute main reason I pre-ordered the pyra was for 3G web browsing which takes quite a chunk of the ram out.

    Like right now I haven't got much here open and I'm halfway through my ram (although Windows 10 is bloated a bit but you get what I mean)
    upload_2017-9-4_23-41-26.png

    I wouldn't mind the extra voltage for the extra 2GB but hopefully there will be a better solution.
     
  5. sebt3

    sebt3 homebrew player (P. & C.)

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    This is windows memory usage. While working on my pyra i'm rarely using more than 300MB of memory. that leave 1.7G for your firefox. more than enough...

    EDIT: but as far as i'm aware, the 4GB memory is still a target and wont be left behind...
     
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  6. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    It is good to see that Grench is still preaching against RAM over 2GB. Keep fighting those windmills, my friend.
     
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  7. Linux-SWAT

    Linux-SWAT Advanced Member

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    It's stable at 1.7GHz with 4GB RAM under Slackware ARM 14.2 and -current.
    Voltage specs for 2GHz are not available. Do you have them ?
     
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  8. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

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    Then the dev team needs to figure out how they are doing it and what the difference is.

    2Ghz, 4GB & Ubuntu (Debian derrivative) is what they advertise as supported.
    https://www.cnx-software.com/2014/0...lopment-board-is-now-available-for-149-euros/

    Maybe the 2Ghz timings and 4GB RAM settings can be harvested from the items in their git repository?
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 4, 2017 ---
    Ask @TrashyMG, if he has time, to run that scenario on the 2GB dev board. I suspect you'll be surprised.
     
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  9. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    TBH Ed was bullied into more ram by a few select individuals, one of which was pissed he couldn't get 8GB made specially for him and very vocal about it.

    I ordered 4GB myself, because why not, but I am at 3 or 4 years into the pyra now, with a preorder as soon as it opened about 2 years ago. We need positive movement, and trashy had shown how much you can do with the 2GB.

    Right now if 4GB is solved today, 2 more years wouldn't surprise me, there are case issues, antenna issues (WiFi), main board issues still (something to do with eagle layouts) amongst others

    If anyone else other than ED was heading this... I would bail. That said, if I could get it this year, 2GB with cellular would be just fine with me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  10. Letalis Sonus

    Letalis Sonus Very Active Member

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    That limit is configurable, you can use more than 3GB if you want to. However, the Java VM is PAE aware and can circumvent the whole address range limit (requires server mode, Oracle's Java defaults to client mode on Windows only).

    As far as modded Minecraft on Linux goes you're more likely run out of virtual address space before RAM becomes an issue - pro tip: make use of MALLOC_ARENA_MAX to avoid having glibc mass pre-allocate memory ranges for the tons of tiny processes spawned by Java, it'll make it a LOT more playable on 32bit systems. I had some fun times getting that stuff to run on a T60p whose chipset only supports up to 3GB RAM...
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  11. lukey

    lukey Rare Species

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    I'd happily go with the 2Gb now and 4Gb as upgrade later. And IMHO that's the Way to go if the Fault is on the CPU-PCB: 1st Batch 2Gb Only and those who want 4Gb have to/want to wait.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  12. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    I don't remember any bullying, just lots of asking and discussion. If you meant me as the pissed person, I was not, however I frequently brought/bring it up, especially when Grench is on his campaign. The way I look at it is that if the SoC was designed for it we can find a way to use it, and all I really wanted was discussion, and not blindly accepting whatever quantity (although the videos were different lacking imo, TrashyMG really helped restore my confidence that real web browsing and other activity at the same time would be doable with 2GB). This comes from the experience of the lack of RAM when using the Pandora, on which web browsing is nearly pointless for many of us at this point. If you mean somebody else that was asking for various custom features, such as no touch layer, I don't think there was much emotional response by them with that, and especially not any vocal displays of being pissed. That person also frequently challenges things rather than just accepting them. So does Grench. So do many of us, including a few I haven't seen in a while.

    Oh, and there is no guarantee of an upgrade in the future, so no reason to put faith in that. We want it to happen, but that alone doesn't make things happen.
     
  13. Silent-Hunter

    Silent-Hunter Advanced Member

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    @rygD I think he meant that other guy, who mentions 8GB of RAM in practically every post he makes.
     
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  14. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    Nope it was not you. This person we later found out hasn't preordered.. Come to think of it I havent seen them around in a while.
     
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  15. Xcl4m4t10n

    Xcl4m4t10n Very Active Member

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    Twin Peaks has finished, so I need something new.
     
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  16. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    I'm watching Revenge, also the Last Ship just resumed
     
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  17. jeeks

    jeeks Very Active Member

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    well the keyboard thread has more side plots than twin peaks.
    some people hated the ending though, probably because the most popular fan theory was the one which was right so everyone knew where the whole thing was going. it's kind of lacking in twists, too, and the mystery part was very short lived.

    (edit: this is not sarcasm or anything, i just watched twin peaks and now i'm out of stuff to do/watch too D: )
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  18. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    I just want to be upfront about a couple things. I agree with some of what Grench is saying, and being stuck with a 4GB option even if it will delay production really sucks (if it doesn't, yes "MOAR RAMS" and I would like 4GB). If that issue did cause a noticeable delay I would let my preference go instantly, and ask for 2GB. Can the 4GB option be removed without causing problems at this point?
    Maybe with an email saying "hey, 4GB will only be available to preorderers, and they will be delayed until after all initial 2GB unit preorders have shipped, with an additional cost tacked on, so you can switch to 2GB and everything goes as expected, or you can wait 2 Months for work on the 4GB option to continue, and run-ons are great."
    It doesn't seem to me that the RAM is significantly holding anything up at this point, though.

    I think I was informed of who you meant, and I thought some of those comments were tongue in cheek like some of my own, so I liked and agreed with them. Sorry if I inadvertently supported any bullying or abuse. I will attempt to be more aware of this in the future.


    I was waiting for them all so that when I am in the right mental state (assuming they are more like his films than earlier Twin Peaks) I can get through them all at once.

    Ewww! ;) For those that like things a bit creepier, many of the horror shows have been airing, or are returning soon. Also, a couple of series on starships are coming soon.

    @jeeks, I had to stop reading your post. Ya know we we have spoiler tags, right?
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 4, 2017 ---
    I just want to be upfront about a couple things. I agree with some of what Grench is saying, and being stuck with a 4GB option even if it will delay production really sucks (if it doesn't, yes "MOAR RAMS" and I would like 4GB). If that issue did cause a noticeable delay I would let my preference go instantly, and ask for 2GB. Can the 4GB option be removed without causing problems at this point?
    Maybe with an email saying "hey, 4GB will only be available to preorderers, and they will be delayed until after all initial 2GB unit preorders have shipped, with an additional cost tacked on, so you can switch to 2GB and everything goes as expected, or you can wait 2 Months for work on the 4GB option to continue, and run-ons are great."
    It doesn't seem to me that the RAM is significantly holding anything up at this point, though.

    I think I was informed of who you meant, and I thought some of those comments were tongue in cheek like some of my own, so I liked and agreed with them. Sorry if I inadvertently supported any bullying or abuse. I will attempt to be more aware of this in the future.


    I was waiting for them all so that when I am in the right mental state (assuming they are more like his films than earlier Twin Peaks) I can get through them all at once.

    Ewww! ;) For those that like things a bit creepier, many of the horror shows have been airing, or are returning soon. Also, a couple of series on starships are coming soon.

    @jeeks, I had to stop reading your post. Ya know we we have spoiler tags, right?
     
  19. Djoga'Ro

    Djoga'Ro moonstruck

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    He only proved it unnecessary for the use cases, he tested it for. To prove it WHOLY unnecessary, you'd need to test it for every thinkable use case. That should keep you busy for the week. Have fun.

    So you're saying the SoC cannot munch through the data as fast as storage can provide it? I fear, ED is going to face over 1k refund requests then. But, how come you're not pleading for no RAM at all? That' be very sensible, should your claim hold up. o_O
     
  20. jeeks

    jeeks Very Active Member

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    all text of my post is about the keyboard thread. but yeah, i'll mark it as spoiler (for the keyboard thread) ;) i don't even know any fan theories about twin peaks ._.'
     
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