bradleyb01
Still Fresh
ATXGuy said:
Good point about the cash, this won't be done for free.
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Good point about the cash, this won't be done for free.
mali
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A question to the OPT:
Does the board production continue as we speak or is it still stopped? The delays are starting to affect the theoretical timeline of the second batch, so I'd like to know where we stand right now. Thanks
Does the board production continue as we speak or is it still stopped? The delays are starting to affect the theoretical timeline of the second batch, so I'd like to know where we stand right now. Thanks
kikeminchas
Still Fresh
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- Nov 18, 2009
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- 42
I also perceive a different tone in ED's posts and updates. Before he look very honest and direct, now his last two posts just seem to try to disguise bad news in a nice dress... Seriously, from the point of view of the customer these are bad news... the only positive thing is the WIFI, but that's just a fix for an issue we even didn't know we had... the case with the cases is just... well... ridiculous... It doesn't matter how good it is going to look right now... it just makes all the team look like fools... and I don't mean it in a bad way, I feel sorry for them and I don't like to hear the level of stress ED had to stand in the last weeks because of the WIFI issue.
And yes, ED, as you mention in the blog, shipping a Pandora without a working WIFI would have been a very bad idea. It was a bad idea now and it was idea before when it was proposed for the first time and the dongle solution appear... why not to wait some days more, give MWeston some time to investigate?? In any case you knew you wouldn't be able to get the cases any time sooner... (if you REALLY didn't know...well...)
I'm afraid that since the time pressure must be really high now, bad decisions are going to be taken, we will see more rushed updates, more blog posts will be edulcorated, more delays... anyway...
I just wanted to vent out a little bit, I had my deadline set in any case. It will be a pity but evrybody has his/her limits. And also, please team just don't forget you depend on this community niceness to keep your asses safe at this moment... don't sell that Pink Pandora first... I'm one of the last orders (november 2009) and I can only feel respect for the people who is supporting you since Autumn 2008. Don't slap them in the face please!
Greetings
And yes, ED, as you mention in the blog, shipping a Pandora without a working WIFI would have been a very bad idea. It was a bad idea now and it was idea before when it was proposed for the first time and the dongle solution appear... why not to wait some days more, give MWeston some time to investigate?? In any case you knew you wouldn't be able to get the cases any time sooner... (if you REALLY didn't know...well...)
I'm afraid that since the time pressure must be really high now, bad decisions are going to be taken, we will see more rushed updates, more blog posts will be edulcorated, more delays... anyway...
I just wanted to vent out a little bit, I had my deadline set in any case. It will be a pity but evrybody has his/her limits. And also, please team just don't forget you depend on this community niceness to keep your asses safe at this moment... don't sell that Pink Pandora first... I'm one of the last orders (november 2009) and I can only feel respect for the people who is supporting you since Autumn 2008. Don't slap them in the face please!
Greetings
bradleyb01
Still Fresh
kikeminchas said:
+1, I also feel really bad for the original orderers.
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mali
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They'll send nobody to China. They just placed a cardboard character for you to shoot at
"Painting the bike shed" is a common metaphor for business meetings where nothing important gets decided because everyone is too busy discussing trivial matters, such as what color to paint the bike shed.
Except in the case of OpenPandora, it's not a metaphor. They are actually discussing what color to paint the cases.
Except in the case of OpenPandora, it's not a metaphor. They are actually discussing what color to paint the cases.
torpor
hack hack hack, the little machines fight back
I had my order in within minutes of it being possible to do so. I've waited patiently for TWO years to see this project come so far. Now, it just seems there is some stupidity going on.
PAINTING THE CASES CAN WAIT! SHIP 500 PANDORAS TO DEVS NOW! WE ARE WAITING TO GET SOFTWARE WORKING ON REAL HARDWARE AND DONT CARE ABOUT PAINT.
PAINTING THE CASES CAN WAIT! SHIP 500 PANDORAS TO DEVS NOW! WE ARE WAITING TO GET SOFTWARE WORKING ON REAL HARDWARE AND DONT CARE ABOUT PAINT.
Esn
(:";
This is what it looks like unpainted. Zoom in and take a close look at both the images:
That looks better to me than this. This looks good from far away, but not as good (IMO) up close:
That looks better to me than this. This looks good from far away, but not as good (IMO) up close:
kikeminchas said:
Im with you on this 100%. I think EVERYONE loves Ed. Who wouldnt? His german accent, his funny lines in videos, his all around jolly and GOOD character. It pains me to see this project taking its toll on him. I think he genuinely cares and believes in the project and the community, unlike another part of the OP team (ive voiced my concerns regarding this elsewhere in the forum), and because of that, I think it is very easy to see that he is truly pained by this. Ed, hang in there, but continue being brutally honest about where everything stands, its part of why we all like you !
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torpor said:
There is definitely something off ("stupidity"?) when you consider that the project is years behind, final hurdles have been crossed/jumped, the OP team is in a way, about to get lynched, and yet they decide, out of the blue... that they want to delay the project further, because they want to paint the cases. This is after people agreed to go with the ugly looking smudged cases. So knowing that their community is in a sense, in arms, and knowing the kind of pitfall that the Chinese factory represents (after the numerous delays and BS from the Chinese), they are still willing to play with fire? It makes no sense... and that is what leaves me a bit unsettled.
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Sugar_Kane
Could crush a grape
I'm not sure about all this, it does sound very bad, although Ed did say that the fixing of the boards will give the chinese some extra time to spray the cases, I'm not sure if that factors in the shipping and green lighting (*sigh*) of the test painted case, which we know from the previous saga can take way too long.
I guess the decision to send to Turkey wouldn't be so bad if it would actually take less time than Michael soldering 700 or so resistors by himself. I mean, it was said that he could do it on the fly, but then it could still take him a few days longer than having them done this way, BUT I really don't think it's wise to introduce more international shipping at this point, as we all know too well how much of a farce that can become, and I wouldn't want to be the guy that has to blog post 'well, customs are holding the boards at the moment... ' etc.
I guess the decision to send to Turkey wouldn't be so bad if it would actually take less time than Michael soldering 700 or so resistors by himself. I mean, it was said that he could do it on the fly, but then it could still take him a few days longer than having them done this way, BUT I really don't think it's wise to introduce more international shipping at this point, as we all know too well how much of a farce that can become, and I wouldn't want to be the guy that has to blog post 'well, customs are holding the boards at the moment... ' etc.
Usoppe
Still Fresh
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I think we shoudnt overact as well. Yeah we are angry and some production processes could be faster (f.e. MWeston - the hardware guru - -> China, check the cases until finished instead of waiting for samples). But everything is running and everyone involved give their last blood on this project. So fairness is what needed now.
Yes, we had alot of delays. But we have progress too. We are almost at finishline - speculating about "oh everything will go wrong, ohohoh" and whinning like that, quitting all the orders could kill the project and at the end everyone would be the looser.
Critic is good, but always be fair, I would say. I criticize too but Iam faithful to the project because we have evidence of steady progress. And you can see with your own eyes that were almost done. There arent empty promises anymore (prototype Pandoras going around, some people had them in their finger) .
Lets criticize but dont be Nostredamus flamming the projects end ^^
Yes, we had alot of delays. But we have progress too. We are almost at finishline - speculating about "oh everything will go wrong, ohohoh" and whinning like that, quitting all the orders could kill the project and at the end everyone would be the looser.
Critic is good, but always be fair, I would say. I criticize too but Iam faithful to the project because we have evidence of steady progress. And you can see with your own eyes that were almost done. There arent empty promises anymore (prototype Pandoras going around, some people had them in their finger) .
Lets criticize but dont be Nostredamus flamming the projects end ^^
r00tw00t
Member
the blogpost was 'damage control' which backfired.
Sugar_Kane
Could crush a grape
I wonder whether just having the lid painted would greatly reduce the time? Then Michael wouldn't have to check it either. If the colour wouldn't be off with the rest of the unit, this would solve the 'dirty square' problem.
Iorgy77
emu parasite kid
I am sensing some angst.
MWeston
Internal Development
Geez, I'm sick of these blog posts with suggestions as fact. Nothing is going to Turkey. Fatih suggested it. ED promoted it. Craig shot it down. End of story. Thousands of dollars have been spent setting up the hall in England and more shipping means more delays, more cost and possibly more taxes. It was a nice idea to spare my sanity having to solder 800 boards (don't forget all those rev4s still ready for devs and the Press) but that is just how it has to be. I'll do what I have to do to get it done faster and that is the reality of my life for the past two years. After reading ED's blog post it doesn't look like he actually said anything other than suggesting things but it's not a fault of the forum to read something and not at least consider it to be the plan. It's not.
The parts from Texas are in the air already and they are going to England. The cases will be shipped on Saturday April 17th (unpainted) or on Tuesday April 20th (painted). Silk screening would mean shipping them on Friday April 23rd and we saw more samples that were a bit better but still not great. Why is that so hard to do? Why haven't they made thousands yet? It baffles me too but from what I hear, they know we are unhappy and keep trying to impress us to no end...and it isn't happening although I have to say seeing the painted cases was the first time I started to feel like this could actually work. I'm pretty picky and perhaps more so than many forumers but I just want a professional product. We'll see what we get in the end. We actually never asked them to keep trying things like they have done. They've just sort of forced that on us by never having anything ready to ship. I'm not sure ED really understood that from Fatih and saying we told them to keep taking their time making it perfect is so not true. It was more like "well, um, if you think that is best...I guess we have a wifi issue we could work on while these delays happen".
The current problem with the painting idea is that they need to take a PCB I sent them and put a painted unit together to be sure that tolerances still exist. Unlike those pictures you have seen of the black and pink one, doing thousands will be done in a professional and dust free environment should we chose to do that. A few extra days while we prepare other stuff like opening up boxes and soldering resistors? Hmmn, it might actually be worth it.
I asked Fatih to ask them about the durability of the paint. Yes, I go through Fatih again because going direct seems to go no where these days. They answer to the one making the purchase orders. He said they tried applying stickers and scratching the paint with a knife and were happy with the test results. I mentioned that we were more interested in more general rubbing and finger grease/salts. I also asked him to find out exactly what kind of paint they will use so we can research its durability. If this all gets done before Friday, no time will be lost since I guess they are still building final cases themselves this week. Can I get a collective: WTF? I hear ya.
So the deal is still that I fly to England as soon as I know those cases have taken off. I will make sure the hall is prepared as I want it and maybe double check the wiring to be sure stations are properly grounded. Craig and I will go through the boxes from Texas and be sure it is all there and okay. I'm also going to ship lots of stuff from my own office here so that I am certain I have the tools I've used all along. I'll do the resistor mod while the cases are in the air and when they get there, we'll throw hundreds together immediately following that. As long as the case company can finally get it together this time, we can still start shipping these out to customers at the end of the month. That's the real plan.
Oh, I should also add that production of the remaining boards from the 4000 has been resumed. Once the wifi fix had been verified to make wireless transactions work and reliably so (maybe not at break neck speeds but I still think there is some software work to do as download rates are totally variable based on CPU speed), I emailed them to continue on with the part change as part of the remaining build process.
Michael
The parts from Texas are in the air already and they are going to England. The cases will be shipped on Saturday April 17th (unpainted) or on Tuesday April 20th (painted). Silk screening would mean shipping them on Friday April 23rd and we saw more samples that were a bit better but still not great. Why is that so hard to do? Why haven't they made thousands yet? It baffles me too but from what I hear, they know we are unhappy and keep trying to impress us to no end...and it isn't happening although I have to say seeing the painted cases was the first time I started to feel like this could actually work. I'm pretty picky and perhaps more so than many forumers but I just want a professional product. We'll see what we get in the end. We actually never asked them to keep trying things like they have done. They've just sort of forced that on us by never having anything ready to ship. I'm not sure ED really understood that from Fatih and saying we told them to keep taking their time making it perfect is so not true. It was more like "well, um, if you think that is best...I guess we have a wifi issue we could work on while these delays happen".
The current problem with the painting idea is that they need to take a PCB I sent them and put a painted unit together to be sure that tolerances still exist. Unlike those pictures you have seen of the black and pink one, doing thousands will be done in a professional and dust free environment should we chose to do that. A few extra days while we prepare other stuff like opening up boxes and soldering resistors? Hmmn, it might actually be worth it.
I asked Fatih to ask them about the durability of the paint. Yes, I go through Fatih again because going direct seems to go no where these days. They answer to the one making the purchase orders. He said they tried applying stickers and scratching the paint with a knife and were happy with the test results. I mentioned that we were more interested in more general rubbing and finger grease/salts. I also asked him to find out exactly what kind of paint they will use so we can research its durability. If this all gets done before Friday, no time will be lost since I guess they are still building final cases themselves this week. Can I get a collective: WTF? I hear ya.
So the deal is still that I fly to England as soon as I know those cases have taken off. I will make sure the hall is prepared as I want it and maybe double check the wiring to be sure stations are properly grounded. Craig and I will go through the boxes from Texas and be sure it is all there and okay. I'm also going to ship lots of stuff from my own office here so that I am certain I have the tools I've used all along. I'll do the resistor mod while the cases are in the air and when they get there, we'll throw hundreds together immediately following that. As long as the case company can finally get it together this time, we can still start shipping these out to customers at the end of the month. That's the real plan.
Oh, I should also add that production of the remaining boards from the 4000 has been resumed. Once the wifi fix had been verified to make wireless transactions work and reliably so (maybe not at break neck speeds but I still think there is some software work to do as download rates are totally variable based on CPU speed), I emailed them to continue on with the part change as part of the remaining build process.
Michael
I'm amazed hom much grief the 'Chinese' are getting in all these posts. China pretty much manufacture every toy you own and more than likely the gadget you are using to read this. I deal with them every week regarding PCB assembly, metalwork, plastics etc and I can assure you the world would not be getting them to manufacture everything if they were a bunch of charlatans.
There is more to this story than we are lead to believe. We have been spoon fed bu11$hit since day one, but due to the fact that the Pandora was a bespoke item I stuck with it, but not anymore.
I know there have been plently of posts along this line, but as I said way back when, this was never really a community project, all information should have been public since day one.
There is more to this story than we are lead to believe. We have been spoon fed bu11$hit since day one, but due to the fact that the Pandora was a bespoke item I stuck with it, but not anymore.
I know there have been plently of posts along this line, but as I said way back when, this was never really a community project, all information should have been public since day one.
kriskelvin
Still Fresh
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4
Some serious whining going on here.
Speaking as one of the "silent majority" not frequently bickering on these forums once a new blog post is released, I don't care after 18 months if its one more month or two, or three - I want the best quality device they can produce and this last blog post reassured me that they're still striving for this. I plan on using this gadget for years and will not throw it away in 6 months for Nokia's new lock-in phone because of 1-2 better specs. I'm done with jailbreaking, firmware hacking etc..
How many of you guys have ever done any electronics development on this scale? With the sole responsibility (incl. financial) on your shoulders? Without some corporate momma in the background to clean up your mess? Seriously, I can only imagine the strain they're under.
Speaking as one of the "silent majority" not frequently bickering on these forums once a new blog post is released, I don't care after 18 months if its one more month or two, or three - I want the best quality device they can produce and this last blog post reassured me that they're still striving for this. I plan on using this gadget for years and will not throw it away in 6 months for Nokia's new lock-in phone because of 1-2 better specs. I'm done with jailbreaking, firmware hacking etc..
How many of you guys have ever done any electronics development on this scale? With the sole responsibility (incl. financial) on your shoulders? Without some corporate momma in the background to clean up your mess? Seriously, I can only imagine the strain they're under.
