MIPI woes, good design ideas and headaches

[kasp]

I dunno it seems to me the one thing people praise about the pandora is is dpad and gaming buttons(minus the L and R).  Putting 6 buttons in seems to me be messing with a winning formula for a couple of games?   The L and R need improvement but the others seem great.


If you are serious enough about fighting games wouldn't you be using an arcade stick anyway?  A handheld console really isn't the place to play serious fighting games.

Fighting games are not the only games that use 6 buttons. (see N64 games) 6 buttons was a winning formula as well. (see Sega Saturn controller.) Also, there is nothing wrong with playing fighting games on a handheld console. If it was a bad idea, then why is Nintendo finally making a SSB game for the 3DS handheld?


People will always argue about the labeling of the buttons. (see Klumpen's posts complaining about the Pandora button labels) That is no reason to deny a feature.

-God Ginrai

Yes but the overwhelming majority of controllers use 4 buttons.  Surely if 6 buttons was the winning formula it would have won out or at least be more prevalent .

The 64 is so unique would having 6 buttons really make a significant difference in game play?

 

[Neelix]

Yes but the overwhelming majority of controllers use 4 buttons.  Surely if 6 buttons was the winning formula it would have won out or at least be more prevalent .

No. What wins out or is most prevalent is based on what products are marketed most successfully. This doesn't always mean that the most successfully marketed product is superior to its competitors.

- Neelix

 

[Askarus]

I'm for the ABXY and CZ version.

But Please

     Y

B       A

     X

It feels so uncomfortable to a Nintendo Kid like me to have B on the right side to confirm.

X on the bottom is nice as Playstation also has X on the bottom to confirm.

With this layout we could cover the needs of Nintendo and Playstation.

 

[_wb_]

I'm for the ABXY and CZ version.

But Please

     Y

B       A

     X

It feels so uncomfortable to a Nintendo Kid like me to have B on the right side to confirm.

X on the bottom is nice as Playstation also has X on the bottom to confirm.

With this layout we could cover the needs of Nintendo and Playstation.

Switching Home and End would be really uncomfortable for a Pandora Kid like me

Trying out some different forum fonts (note that none of these fonts seem to have a problem with Greek letters)...

   Δ

Π  Ω

   χ

    Δ

Π    Ω

    χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

  Δ

Π   Ω

  χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

 

[God Ginrai]

I'm for the ABXY and CZ version.

But Please

     Y

B       A

     X

It feels so uncomfortable to a Nintendo Kid like me to have B on the right side to confirm.

X on the bottom is nice as Playstation also has X on the bottom to confirm.

With this layout we could cover the needs of Nintendo and Playstation.

 Switching Home and End would be really uncomfortable for a Pandora Kid like me

Trying out some different forum fonts (note that none of these fonts seem to have a problem with Greek letters)...

   Δ

Π  Ω

   χ

    Δ

Π    Ω

    χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

  Δ

Π   Ω

  χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

   Δ

Π   Ω

   χ

Yea, now good luck finding the χ key on a keyboard.

-God Ginrai

 

[Natsu]

...Or just keep it simple like this.

       Z
   Y      C
X     B
   A

I mean seriously, why overcomplicated it? Since it's six it should avoid that trademark issue mention back there. (If it even an issue.)

 

[God Ginrai]

Yes but the overwhelming majority of controllers use 4 buttons.

By overwhelming majority, you mean "recent consoles". The Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, N64, and original Xbox all had 6 face buttons. If anything, the "overwhelming majority of controllers" use 2 face buttons. By your logic, we should go Gameboy Advance-style and just have A and B buttons.

EDIT:

@Natsu: I was only suggesting alternatives due to the fact that those talking about it seem to be of the opinion we shouldn't use letters.

-God Ginrai

 

[ShleeDragon]

My solution..

 

 

[ShleeDragon]

Playing fighting games is easy.. down-right, infinity! back, back, all seeing eye!

 

[hns]

My solution..

I vote for Chinese character.
Or "e", "i", "pi", "-1" because that are the magic numbers of transcendental mathematics (L. Euler).

 

[xiongxioi]

I say we put electrodes in the buttons, so users can feel different degree of pain when pressing each of the buttons. 

Personally I don't think this would make a different at all, we are not like apple, so even if we can establish a new standard, there won't be fans scream at others for how the pyra has shaped the gaming industry. 

As long as they are all round, I'm happy. <_<

 

[Klumpen]

Yes but the overwhelming majority of controllers use 4 buttons.  Surely if 6 buttons was the winning formula it would have won out or at least be more prevalent .

Yeah right, because the best stuff always sells best. Suddenly I have to think about apples here.

Yes, but you're missing my point. Borrowing Klumpen's suggestion, (purely for being a positional representation) it's a lot easier to remember that East=A, South=B, North=X, West=Y than it is to remember B=A, X=B, Y=X, A=Y.


Basically, using the same symbols you are mapping for the buttons they are being mapped onto is inherently confusing, unless the symbol mapping already matches the button mapping.

If you have buttons labelled A,B,X and Y which were mapped to Y, A, B and X respectively, and tell you "Press Y", do I mean the button mapped Y or the button labelled Y? On the other hand, if you have buttons Labelled I, J, K and L (for the sake of this argument) mapped to A, B, X, and Y, (respectively) and I tell you to press A it's clear which button is intended.

That's why I think that even unlabeled buttons would be better than scrambling my old SNES layout.

 

[Blimp]

Set of easily detachable buttons (press down and turn 90 degrees to change) , number the buttons on the case 1,2,3,4,... for how to use. Then Ed can sell sets of buttons for a high price! (should be profitable, people lose stuff all the time!)

 

[_wb_]

...Or just keep it simple like this.

       Z


   Y      C


X     B


   A

I mean seriously, why overcomplicated it? Since it's six it should avoid that trademark issue mention back there. (If it even an issue.)

This is not sufficiently backwards-compatible with Pandora. Changing the symbols is a drastic but acceptable change in my opinion, but keeping the same symbols and putting them in a different order is extremely confusing.

What about Playstation-lookalike Greek letters, with small Pandora-compatible Latin letters inside, so we get good backwards compatibility, ASCII descriptions of the buttons when needed, unambiguous button names when needed, and lots of geek points. Something like this:

One of the extra buttons could then be labelled with a Rho and N, the other with G and whatever, and then the buttons spell the words PYRA, PANDORA and DRAGONBOX.

 

[bzar]

Set of easily detachable buttons (press down and turn 90 degrees to change) , number the buttons on the case 1,2,3,4,... for how to use. Then Ed can sell sets of buttons for a high price! (should be profitable, people lose stuff all the time!)

And usability suffers when the instructions aren't unambiguous

 

[Natsu]

This is not sufficiently backwards-compatible with Pandora. Changing the symbols is a drastic but acceptable change in my opinion, but keeping the same symbols and putting them in a different order is extremely confusing.

At least the letters are the same. It's better to rearrange them now than later on. Quite frankly, it's better than adding weird and/or


unnecessary symbols.

 

[Ziz]

_wb_, I have no idea, why you ignored my post, but reposted your idea again - without new arguments.

Greek letters are a baaad idea. Yes, most of the modern fonts can handle them. And yes, your games seem to use ttf fonts, so it would be a quite small change. My games would work, too.

But MOST of the games don't use fancy ttf and shall (!) not look modern, but retro™, they use bitmap fonts and that for reason - they look often better and they are easier to use.

Furthermore - and you ignored that, too - most people don't know greek letters. Even I don't know them very well, if I don't use them often.

Another thing you didn't explain: Why not just using numbers?

    (1) (4)
  (2) (5)
(3) (6)

I don't see any disadvantage. Nobody would tell you "Press button 1" or "Press (1)", if the person would mean the KEY 1 on the keyboard. In this case obviously the game button (1) is meant. Furthermore none of the emulated consoles uses numbers, so it isn't confusing anymore, that A is X, X is Y and B is actually A on this device.

 

[_wb_]

_wb_, I have no idea, why you ignored my post, but reposted your idea again - without new arguments.


Greek letters are a baaad idea. Yes, most of the modern fonts can handle them. And yes, your games seem to use ttf fonts, so it would be a quite small change. My games would work, too.


But MOST of the games don't use fancy ttf and shall (!) not look modern, but retro™, they use bitmap fonts and that for reason - they look often better and they are easier to use.


Furthermore - and you ignored that, too - most people don't know greek letters. Even I don't know them very well, if I don't use them often.


Another thing you didn't explain: Why not just using numbers?


(1) (4)
(2) (5)
(3) (6)
I don't see any disadvantage. Nobody would tell you "Press button 1" or "Press (1)", if the person would mean the KEY 1 on the keyboard. In this case obviously the game button (1) is meant. Furthermore none of the emulated consoles uses numbers, so it isn't confusing anymore, that A is X, X is Y and B is actually A on this device.

I didn't ignore your post, I think adding the small ABXY inside the Greek letters solves your problem:

What about Playstation-lookalike Greek letters, with small Pandora-compatible Latin letters inside, so we get good backwards compatibility, ASCII descriptions of the buttons when needed, unambiguous button names when needed, and lots of geek points. Something like this:

One of the extra buttons could then be labelled with a Rho and N, the other with G and whatever, and then the buttons spell the words PYRA, PANDORA and DRAGONBOX.

Just numbers would work too. It is a good solution. The only problem I have with it, is that it kind of "lacks personality" if you know what I mean -- it's not exactly the most inspiring thing to do, you have 6 buttons so you label them 1,2,3,4,5,6. It makes sense, of course, but only in a bureaucratic way.

 

[DaMummy]

☪☭✟

✡卍☮

 

[Klumpen]

Another thing you didn't explain: Why not just using numbers?


(1) (4)
(2) (5)
(3) (6)
I don't see any disadvantage. Nobody would tell you "Press button 1" or "Press (1)", if the person would mean the KEY 1 on the keyboard. In this case obviously the game button (1) is meant. Furthermore none of the emulated consoles uses numbers, so it isn't confusing anymore, that A is X, X is Y and B is actually A on this device.

I mentioned this too. My gamepads have numbers on the buttons and I never had problems with this, you just have to take care that the numbers match the input numeration in the driver.