Micro USB plz?

[bzar]

I propose to have one Type A port, one Mini-AB port (even though it is deprecated now), and one Micro-AB port with SlimPort capabilities.

Is a Micro-AB port structurally solid enough to handle an HDMI cord pulling it in many directions? Usual use case I see with the slimport devices has the device sitting on a table and the weight of the cable supported by the table or something rather than the flimsy micro-usb port. With Pyra I'd guess holding it in one's hands is a more likely scenario, which puts a lot more torque on the port.

I think the above suggestion is otherwise OK, but I'd rather have a mini-hdmi or mini-dp (that are designed to handle those cables) than putting all that pressure on the micro-usb.

 

[levi]

Three USB ports seems overkill to me personally. Which of them would support charging, assuming that's a siginificant use of USB in the Pyra?

 

[thatgui]

I'm with Grench in including a micro USB3 port. I'm also against including a Type B connector, it violates the USB Standard, is not very common at all (or am I the only one only owning one cable with a type B connector ?), and we probably would have a size issue due to the receptable having rather big dimensions.

Edit: As B-Zar, I would like to have a dedicated video out - thats probably a special usecase of mine, but I'm thinking of connecting my Pyra via video out, while the "big" USB port is occupied by a gamepad, and the "small" one is used to power the Pyra

Edit: correction

 

[bzar]

It doesn't violate the standard if it's used to connect pyra to a host as a gadget, like external memory, gamepad, keyboard and so on. That said an AB-port (also known as on-the-go or OTG) would probably be better than a dedicated B-port because it can be user as either A or B.

I have about seven or so A-B cables at home (and probably as many A-miniB and A-microB).

 

[thatgui]

It doesn't violate the standard if it's used to connect pyra to a host as a gadget, like external memory, gamepad, keyboard and so on.

I know, but most of the time it will be the other way around. I thought that if a device is host capable it needs to fullfill the host standards, don't know much about how strict the standard is handled though.

 

[bzar]

(Not exactly sure which part is unclear here, please don't get offended if I say obvious things or sound condescending. It's not my intention )

A device can have both kinds of ports (or an AB-port) to support working in both roles, like pandora does. This is why we can have nice stuff like MasterControl where Pandora works as a gadget.

 

[_wb_]

Three USB ports seems overkill to me personally. Which of them would support charging, assuming that's a siginificant use of USB in the Pyra?

The mini and micro one could be used for charging. The big one would be host only -- so it provides power, it doesn't take in power.

Dedicated video out would be nice, e.g. a mini displayport or mini hdmi. But if we want to reduce the number of ports, it makes sense to use a SlimPort (MyDP).

Are (mini) DP and (mini) HDMI really that much stronger / capable of keeping the cable plugged in while moving the device? I don't know any device that is not meant to just be put on a table or something while connected to the TV/monitor/beamer.

Maybe we need a custom solution after all: maybe a SlimPort (which uses a standard microUSB connector) with two screw holes next to it, something like an old fashioned VGA cable. You can plug in any normal microUSB connector, but you can also use the "DragonBox super strong cable" that is just a normal microUSB cable but with two screws which you can use to firmly attach the cable to the Pyra.

(Not exactly sure which part is unclear here, please don't get offended if I say obvious things or sound condescending. It's not my intention )


A device can have both kinds of ports (or an AB-port) to support working in both roles, like pandora does. This is why we can have nice stuff like MasterControl where Pandora works as a gadget.

Yes, but AB only exists for mini and micro, not for the normal size. Some people wanted a normal size Type B port. I don't think that would be very useful.

 

[thatgui]

A device can have both kinds of ports (or an AB-port) to support working in both roles, like pandora does. This is why we can have nice stuff like MasterControl where Pandora works as a gadget.

Ok, then thats were my error was, I thought a USB device can only implement one role - which is total nonsense as (as you said) the Pandora already implements this, sorry :mellow:

 

[bzar]

Mini-DP is almost the size of a USB-B and used for instance in MacBooks. By my experience they are a lot sturdier than micro-usbs.

I'm not advocating a full-size USB-B either. For the gadget mode stuff mini-AB and/or micro-AB should suffice, as USB cable is quite a bit less straining for the port than a HDMI cable.

 

[levi]

I don't have any USB-full-size B ports or cables, but then I don't own any large USB-pluggable devices such as printers. Every USB peripheral I have is either directly wired in on the peripheral side, or connected via a mini or micro B socket.

 

[_jr_]

I'm fine with Mini-AB as long as the Mini-A-Adapter is included or at least available from the dagonbox shop. Finding one was a PITA, not least because of crappy descriptions and unhelpful images on online stores.

 

[Grench]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Types of USB connectors left to right (ruler in centimeters): Micro-B plug, UC-E6 proprietary (non-USB) plug, Mini-B plug, Standard-A receptacle (upside down), Standard-A plug, Standard-B plug

I propose to have one Type A port, one Mini-AB port (even though it is deprecated now), and one Micro-AB port with SlimPort capabilities.

I don't think it is useful to have a Type B port.

Your picture of USB connectors was not complete. Not a single mention or inclusion of USB 3.0.

The Pandora has TWO USB ports. One is a USB 2.0 type A. The other is a an USB 1.1 Mini A with OTG support.

Likewise, the Pyra would have TWO USB ports. One would be USB 3.0 OTG. The other would be a USB 2.0 type A (Full sized host). What we're all really debating is whether that USB 3.0 port should be expressed as a USB 3.0 type A, USB 3.0 type B or USB 3.0 micro A. All of these connectors is somewhat different from the pre-3.0 ports shown above. They all have additional leads in the connector. The micro-USB type A is dramatically different from a 'normal' micro-USB 2.0 type A.

Good reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0

Go look at the images - these connectors have additional pins and in the case of microUSB 3.0 are about twice as wide.

I think the end choice really comes down to either:

1. Having 2 full sized USB type A ports - one 3.0 and one 2.0 then needing a USB to micro USB adapter to charge from a cell phone charger OR have a male-male gender changer adapter to utilize a standard USB cable for charging. I was unable to find a USB 3.0 male type A to female microUSB 3.0 adapter. I was able to find it in the 'old' variety - but they seem to be very rare ducks.

or

2. Having 1 full sized USB 2.0 type A port AND 1 micro-USB 3.0 OTG type A port. In this scenario a cell phone charger could be used to charge - the micro-USB type A is backwards compatible. It could use USB device cables just like a Samsung Galaxy Note III. It would follow the USB device spec more closely. If you have a USB 3.0 device that you want to plug into the Pandora at USB 3.0 speeds, though, you will then need an adapter with female USB 3.0 on one end and male microUSB 3.0 on the other. Just like these:

http://www.amazon.com/Mall-Female-Micro-Adapter-Connector/dp/B00HLYDNL6

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Color-Micro-Samsung-Galaxy/dp/B00FNDXO0M

I'm inclined to go with option 2.

 

[bzar]

I'm not aware of a full-size USB3 OTG configuration; is there one? I seem to be only able to find microUSB3-A-USB3-A adapters. That would mean the USB3 port would have to be micro-sized if we want to have the gadget mode as well (and we do )

So yes, same as you said

That leaves the three USB2 lines. At least one should be full-size for easy usage of common peripherals and memory sticks. Maybe even two.

 

[slaeshjag]

Preferably one internal one for hardware hacking. Something that hindered me from even thinking about modding my pandora, is the lack of nice internal interfaces to tap into.

 

[levi]

What do you mean by 'nice internal interfaces'. Do bare contact points, like you have for power, 12c and the UARTs count? Granted, to mess with the USB you need to take lines off the socket itself IIRC.

 

[slaeshjag]

The I²C is a bit awkward to access (only 1.8v on the pads accessable iirc?). UART and I²C isn't exactly the fastest busses either, so the stuff I wanted to do isn't practical with them.

 

[Granitehead]

Maybe we need a custom solution after all: maybe a SlimPort (which uses a standard microUSB connector) with two screw holes next to it, something like an old fashioned VGA cable. You can plug in any normal microUSB connector, but you can also use the "DragonBox super strong cable" that is just a normal microUSB cable but with two screws which you can use to firmly attach the cable to the Pyra.

So you mean the screw holes aren't on the connector itself? It doesn't seem very clear to me and otherwise it wouldn't make sense, the problem isn't the cable slipping out but the port breaking of the board (possible even ruining it in the process).

 

[Binky]

The Pandora has TWO USB ports. One is a USB 2.0 type A. The other is a an USB 1.1 Mini A with OTG support.

Please can we talk about them as low-, full-, high- and super-speed?

The pandora has

• one highspeed host port with a fullA socket that can supply 500mA
• one lowspeed+fullspeed+highspeed host/slave port with a miniAB socket than can supply 200mA

Only refer to something as USB2.0 if it supports low, full and high speeds

 

[FBnil]

Preferably one internal one for hardware hacking. Something that hindered me from even thinking about modding my pandora, is the lack of nice internal interfaces to tap into.

Why not use an USB breakout board or USB breakout cable? (or do you want to mod it internally?)

Check these out these other examples: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10031 and http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/USB-65/USB-5V-POWER-BREAK-OUT-CABLE/1.html

 

[_wb_]

I think the end choice really comes down to either:


1. Having 2 full sized USB type A ports - one 3.0 and one 2.0 then needing a USB to micro USB adapter to charge from a cell phone charger OR have a male-male gender changer adapter to utilize a standard USB cable for charging. I was unable to find a USB 3.0 male type A to female microUSB 3.0 adapter. I was able to find it in the 'old' variety - but they seem to be very rare ducks.


or


2. Having 1 full sized USB 2.0 type A port AND 1 micro-USB 3.0 OTG type A port. In this scenario a cell phone charger could be used to charge - the micro-USB type A is backwards compatible. It could use USB device cables just like a Samsung Galaxy Note III. It would follow the USB device spec more closely. If you have a USB 3.0 device that you want to plug into the Pandora at USB 3.0 speeds, though, you will then need an adapter with female USB 3.0 on one end and male microUSB 3.0 on the other. Just like these:

http://www.amazon.com/Mall-Female-Micro-Adapter-Connector/dp/B00HLYDNL6

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Color-Micro-Samsung-Galaxy/dp/B00FNDXO0M


I'm inclined to go with option 2.

What about option 3:

3. One full-sized USB 3.0 Standard-A port (which is backwards compatible with USB 2.0 and 1.x), and one micro-USB 3.0 OTG port (with SlimPort support). And maybe one mini-USB 1.1 OTG port too, just for backwards compatibility with the Pandora.

That would be my preferred option. If for some reason we cannot have two USB 3.0 ports, then change the micro-USB one to 2.0 OTG with SlimPort support.

Maybe we need a custom solution after all: maybe a SlimPort (which uses a standard microUSB connector) with two screw holes next to it, something like an old fashioned VGA cable. You can plug in any normal microUSB connector, but you can also use the "DragonBox super strong cable" that is just a normal microUSB cable but with two screws which you can use to firmly attach the cable to the Pyra.

So you mean the screw holes aren't on the connector itself? It doesn't seem very clear to me and otherwise it wouldn't make sense, the problem isn't the cable slipping out but the port breaking of the board (possible even ruining it in the process).

The screw holes would be in the Pyra case (maybe some metal plate to fortify it), and the screws would be in the connector, like how you can secure a VGA cable. That way most of the torque/stress would not be on the port itself or the board it is attached to, but on the case.