Micro USB plz?

[_wb_]

Would it be possible to have a wide micro-AB USB 3.0 port, and an eSATAp port which can be used as both a USB 2.0 host port and a powered eSATA port?

 

[bzar]

Do we have 12V DC coming from somewhere? If not, the port would require an external power supply to power the connected device some devices (apparently there are special cables for this kind of setup).

 

[_wb_]

Do we have 12V DC coming from somewhere? If not, the port would require an external power supply to power the connected device some devices (apparently there are special cables for this kind of setup).

No, I don't think we have 12V anywhere. It's the same in most laptops, and for that reason I would expect recent drives (especially SSD ones) to work fine with just 5V.

There are only two versions of this port. Most laptop computers do not have +12V power available, and have an eSATAp port which provides only +5 V. Desktop computers, with +12V available, have a port with two additional pads, placed against the plug's "horns", which provide +12 V. Some manufacturers refer to these ports as eSATApd, where d stands for "dual voltage". Some devices, such as 2.5-inch drives, can operate off the +5V supplied by laptop eSATAp ports. Others, such as 3.5-inch drives, also require +12V; they can be powered from a desktop eSATAp port, but require an external +12V power supply if used with a laptop computer. This can lead to confusion if users are not aware of the distinction.

 

[Binky]

It seems clear to me that if The CPU will be the OMAP5 and we want both OTG and USB3,  we're going to need to use a wide micro-AB port.   In that case I would recommend that ED find a supplier of these cables for people wanting a full size USB3 connector.

It seems that it won't be possible to use both OTG gadget mode and USB 3 host mode at the same time.  

I'm thinking if we also want a full size USB port,  it will have to be a USB2 port.

- Neelix

What's your objection with the idea floated on the previous page? That is to wire a USB3A and microUSB3AB to the same pins on the chip, and have a mechanism (software or hardware) which disconnects the data lines from the micro port when the full-size port is in use?

Would it be possible to have a wide micro-AB USB 3.0 port, and an eSATAp port which can be used as both a USB 2.0 host port and a powered eSATA port?

This would be a very nice idea - but would it need a separate sata controller? If so, how would that be interfaced with the SOC?

 

[WizardStan]

What's your objection with the idea floated on the previous page?

Stupid people. That is my objection.

 

[Grench]

What's your objection with the idea floated on the previous page?

Stupid people. That is my objection.

We protect stupid people from themselves by

1. Linking presence detection in the full size USB 3.0 A connector to a pair of micro relays that disables the data pins on the microUSB 3.0 connector. Both cannot be 'present' from a data perspective.

2. Isolate the power lines for the 2. The micro connector can still be there for charging while the full size port is discharging.

Then we have a special forum chain where we point people to who decide they're going to try to run the device as a 3-way host without a hub and highlight your post calling them stupid.

Yes, it's still a bit of a crazy idea. However, we have people who really really want the USB 3.0 port to be usable directly with memory sticks and the like (full size type A) AND we want to be able to charge the device via USB (microA) AND we want to be able to use one port as OTG so that the Pandora can be the device to another host (microB). There is only one USB 3.0 OTG port to work from on the OMAP5 and the z3770. I am unaware of ANY mobile SOC that has more than one USB 3.0 port.

So - this is a potential solution for having our cake (microUSB 3.0 OTG) and eat it too (USB 3.0 type A host).

Side note - do really stupid people buy a $700 handheld Linux on ARM gaming/general computer? Or just smart people who have a few things left to learn? Ignorance can be cured. There is no fix for stupid.

 

[WizardStan]

Then we have a special forum chain where we point people to who decide they're going to try to run the device as a 3-way host without a hub and highlight your post calling them stupid

Excellent, everything accounted for then. Good work.

 

[Null]

Side note - do really stupid people buy a $700 handheld Linux on ARM gaming/general computer?

There's no telling what really stupid people would spend $700 on.

Hmm, maybe I was wrong.

 

[Grench]

Then we have a special forum chain where we point people to who decide they're going to try to run the device as a 3-way host without a hub and highlight your post calling them stupid

Excellent, everything accounted for then. Good work.

 

Side note - do really stupid people buy a $700 handheld Linux on ARM gaming/general computer?

There's no telling what really stupid people would spend $700 on.

Hmm, maybe I was wrong.

That's an even BETTER place to send stupid people. That way we can identify them easily in a crowd by their white devices and proprietary ecosystem and weird sweater vests

.

 

[mcobit]

Wouldn't the Pandora be chargeable with an usb 2.0 port, too?


So if you have an usb 3.0 Micro port, a USB 2.0 micro and a fullsized USB 2.0 port, you could still use highspeed devices while charging with the micro usb 2.0 port.

 

[Granitehead]

I still think three is too much. I'm for USB 3.0 micro OTG (with Slimport) and USB 2.0 Host (maybe with eSATA).

 

[Neelix]

I still think three is too much. I'm for USB 3.0 micro OTG (with Slimport) and USB 2.0 Host (maybe with eSATA).

Don't get the appeal of combining video out and our one OTG port in one connector.  I'd like to be able to use both at once.

- Neelix

 

[Grench]

Would it be possible to have a wide micro-AB USB 3.0 port, and an eSATAp port which can be used as both a USB 2.0 host port and a powered eSATA port?

That is a fantastic idea - and the SOC -does- have SATA on it.

So - to recap ports on the back of the Pyra, we have:

1. Power barrel connector.

2. USB 3.0 type A with data lines tied to #3 on micro-relays to cut the data lines from #3 when a device is plugged into #2.

3. microUSB 3.0 OTG. Electrically isolated from #2 so it can still charge the device

4. eSATAp. Combined USB 2.0 and eSATA connector. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp

5. HDMI or microHDMI or DisplayPort++ (Dual-Mode DisplayPort) or other video output port

6. (maybe) something to access the UARTs or GPIO through the case.

 

[Grench]

Very informative piece on eSATAp:

http://superuser.com/questions/435738/how-to-check-if-my-esatap-port-provides-12v-power

 

[Neelix]

2. USB 3.0 type A with data lines tied to #3 on micro-relays to cut the data lines from #3 when a device is plugged into #2.

This doesn't seem like such a good idea to me...  What if I want to use the OTG port in device mode (e.g USB networking) and still use the Type A port in Host mode (e.g midi keyboard) at the same time?

EDIT: (yes I am very likely to want to use that exact combination at some point)

- Neelix

 

[WizardStan]

What if I want to use the OTG port in device mode (e.g USB networking) and still use the Type A port in Host mode (e.g midi keyboard) at the same time?

Plug it into a hub plugged into the eSATAp port.Seems to me the only issue would come if you wanted to use the OTG port in conjunction with a USB3.0 device.

edit: which I just realized would be a problem anyway because the OMAP5 only has the one USB3.0 port on it which is also the OTG port, so by design it is impossible to use it in device mode and as a USB3.0 host at the same time. You aren't losing anything.

 

[Grench]

2. USB 3.0 type A with data lines tied to #3 on micro-relays to cut the data lines from #3 when a device is plugged into #2.

 This doesn't seem like such a good idea to me...  What if I want to use the OTG port in device mode (e.g USB networking) and still use the Type A port in Host mode (e.g midi keyboard) at the same time?

EDIT: (yes I am very likely to want to use that exact combination at some point)

- Neelix

Then you would have the microUSB 3.0 OTG port in device mode and the USB 2.0 host. You will NOT be able to use the microUSB 3.0 OTG port in device mode and the companion USB 3.0 port as host at the same time.

There is ONLY 1 USB 3.0 port capable on the SOCs that we're talking about. The idea of having a microUSB 3.0 OTG AND a USB 3.0 type A requires that they utilize the same data lines.

The device, in this imagination of it, would ALSO have a USB 2.0 host port for you to plug your keyboard/hub/mouse/etc into while using the USB 3.0 OTG as a device-mode USB port.

 

[Grench]

What if I want to use the OTG port in device mode (e.g USB networking) and still use the Type A port in Host mode (e.g midi keyboard) at the same time?

Plug it into a hub plugged into the eSATAp port.Seems to me the only issue would come if you wanted to use the OTG port in conjunction with a USB3.0 device.

edit: which I just realized would be a problem anyway because the OMAP5 only has the one USB3.0 port on it which is also the OTG port, so by design it is impossible to use it in device mode and as a USB3.0 host at the same time. You aren't losing anything.

Exactly.

Porting out the USB 3.0 port's data lines to both a microUSB 3.0 OTG and a USB 3.0 type A ports doesn't magically create a 2nd USB 3.0 wireset on the SOC. It's just a convenience idea since we couldn't seem to decide which ONE we wanted - so I thought, "Why not both?"

 

[WizardStan]

So what exactly is the benefit of having a USB type A alongside the OTG? What problem does it solve that can't be solved by just having the OTG port and an adapter the way it is now?

 

[Grench]

 Now, what if I wanted to hook up an external hard drive via the eSATAp port, then share it back to my desktop through the microUSB 3.0 OTG in device mode and have a keyboard, mouse and two USB drives connected?

http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-SuperSpeed-Type-Micro-B/dp/B005H3Q57M
and
http://www.amazon.com/Esatap-Power-Esata-Female-Adapter/dp/B00E3G5HKA
and
http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-4-Port-Individual-Switches-HB-UMLS/dp/B00BWF5U0M

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