Beta Mame4All Beta

[Mjlink]

^
Thank you sir!

Any chance you'll be on the new forums? Both of you Dave & Steve?

Peace & Pandora,

Link

 

[DaveC]

Bug:

I noticed using Donkey Kong as an example that if I use rotate normal it doesn't work right. It should double the 224 width to 448 but instead the image is zoomed in and cropped. It looks like it is guessing at 3X instead of 2X. The MAME ROM spec page that shows the machine hardware specs is correct but when you get to the game it is zoomed.

EDIT: Ok now I know what it is doing. It is using the tallest hight and integering that. So in this case it is taking the 256 image height (which is now landscape on the Pandora screen) and saying "hey 256 x 3 will fit into 800" But since the Pandora screen is not 4:3 the 224 x3 doesn't fit. You need to use the vertical oriented game WIDTH value (smaller number) when determining the integer that will fit into 480.

Something to look at but of course the sound is more important because without working sound nothing else matters.

 

[cosam]

EDIT: Ok now I know what it is doing. It is using the tallest hight and integering that. So in this case it is taking the 256 image height (which is now landscape on the Pandora screen) and saying "hey 256 x 3 will fit into 800" But since the Pandora screen is not 4:3 the 224 x3 doesn't fit. You need to use the vertical oriented game WIDTH value (smaller number) when determining the integer that will fit into 480.

It's a little more complicated than that. For many games, the largest scale that will fit in both axes is 1:1. This isn't so much of a problem if your native resolution is 320x240 like on the Wiz; you just render it and live with a bit of a border and maybe some minor clipping. On the Pandora you however end up with a tiny image and massive borders. What it therefore does is calculate the integer scale which best matches the physical screen, based on the diagonal measurement. This may be larger or smaller than the actual screen, so borders and/or clipping can occur. If the calculated scale results in clipping in both axes, it backs off by one. It's not an ideal algorithm and the non-4:3 aspect ratio doesn't help, but it does work as designed and provides a reasonable compromise for the games I tested. I can add a "never clip" mode, but I don't think it would make a good default.

 

[DaveC]

EDIT: Ok now I know what it is doing. It is using the tallest hight and integering that. So in this case it is taking the 256 image height (which is now landscape on the Pandora screen) and saying "hey 256 x 3 will fit into 800" But since the Pandora screen is not 4:3 the 224 x3 doesn't fit. You need to use the vertical oriented game WIDTH value (smaller number) when determining the integer that will fit into 480.

It's a little more complicated than that. For many games, the largest scale that will fit in both axes is 1:1. This isn't so much of a problem if your native resolution is 320x240 like on the Wiz; you just render it and live with a bit of a border and maybe some minor clipping. On the Pandora you however end up with a tiny image and massive borders. What it therefore does is calculate the integer scale which best matches the physical screen, based on the diagonal measurement. This may be larger or smaller than the actual screen, so borders and/or clipping can occur. If the calculated scale results in clipping in both axes, it backs off by one. It's not an ideal algorithm and the non-4:3 aspect ratio doesn't help, but it does work as designed and provides a reasonable compromise for the games I tested. I can add a "never clip" mode, but I don't think it would make a good default.

To me using a diagonal measurement makes little sense especially since we have a widescreen and no MAME games that this version runs do.

What would make much more sense would to be to use the width (smaller) number in pixels of the arcade game, then determine how many times that would go into 480 then determine the integer (and probably 99% of the time it would be 2X unless it is vector). Since if you make the width fit, the height (800PX) will ALWAYS fit that is all you need to be concerned with. There would never be a case where an integer value that fits the narrow dimension of the screen would clip in the 800PX direction.

Also for the integer mode (not the fractional modes as it would look too ugly) it would be a nice option to have a setting for filter/no filter as Notaz has made that accessible now. It would be in the current list of screen modes and saved per game.

 

[cosam]

To me using a diagonal measurement makes little sense especially since we have a widescreen and no MAME games that this version runs do.

Maybe not be wide-screen, but many games are 384x224 (scales nicely to 768x448) which is a lot closer to the Pandora's native aspect ratio than it is to 4:3. I agree that the diagonal measurement is not ideal, though. I could use some kind of threshold system (e.g. allow clipping if less than 10%) but then I'd also have people complaining that the thresholds were wrong for some specific game.

What would make much more sense would to be to use the width (smaller) number in pixels of the arcade game, then determine how many times that would go into 480 then determine the integer (and probably 99% of the time it would be 2X unless it is vector). Since if you make the width fit, the height (800PX) will ALWAYS fit that is all you need to be concerned with. There would never be a case where an integer value that fits the narrow dimension of the screen would clip in the 800PX direction.

Making it fit is easy; I've already said I can add an option for that. But using this approach for games like R-Type (224x256) results in a tiny image and a lot of wasted screen.

 

[DaveC]

Maybe not be wide-screen, but many games are 384x224 (scales nicely to 768x448) which is a lot closer to the Pandora's native aspect ratio than it is to 4:3. I agree that the diagonal measurement is not ideal, though. I could use some kind of threshold system (e.g. allow clipping if less than 10%) but then I'd also have people complaining that the thresholds were wrong for some specific game.

Making it fit is easy; I've already said I can add an option for that. But using this approach for games like R-Type (224x256) results in a tiny image and a lot of wasted screen.

And in your 384x224 example with the method I suggested it automatically would give 768x448 as you would integer double the 224 width and you would get that result. As I said if you did it using the narrow number (arcade width vertical, height horizontal) the size in the 800 direction would automatically fall out. I don't know of any game MAME4all suports that is native resolution of over 400 one direction and less than 240 the other.

Your R-type example 256x224 would double to 500x448, hardly "tiny". There are allot of other modes in MAME where the screen IS tiny like vertical games not played rotated, vector games etc. Ok so you have a border on the sides as expected, but of course you will for all of these because none were widescreen. The object is to get the largest integer size you can while fitting everything in, no cropping. The object of this mode was not: must fill screen completely no matter what. I guess this is where your thinking and mine are opposite. If you want full screen no matter what then you would use one of the fractional modes and filter it.

I tried Donkey Kong rotated integer and it was totally unplayable cropped off and I would expect most others to be the same. What I was expecting, and was the whole point of this mode, was to get it unfiltered and have it integer to 448x500 so it is as large as it can be while still looking good unfiltered (have to use Notaz script for now). I don't know of anyone who would want to play with a good chunk of the screen cut off.

 

[cosam]

Your R-type example 256x224 would double to 500x448, hardly "tiny".

R-Type is 256 lines (I typoed on the horizontal figure) and this at 1:1 really is tiny. This is what I'm trying to avoid.

There are allot of other modes in MAME where the screen IS tiny like vertical games not played rotated, vector games etc. Ok so you have a border on the sides as expected, but of course you will for all of these because none were widescreen. The object is to get the largest integer size you can while fitting everything in, no cropping. The object of this mode was not: must fill screen completely no matter what. I guess this is where your thinking and mine are opposite. If you want full screen no matter what then you would use one of the fractional modes and filter it.

I tried Donkey Kong rotated integer and it was totally unplayable cropped off and I would expect most others to be the same. What I was expecting, and was the whole point of this mode, was to get it unfiltered and have it integer to 448x500 so it is as large as it can be while still looking good unfiltered (have to use Notaz script for now). I don't know of anyone who would want to play with a good chunk of the screen cut off.

We are talking about two different modes. I've explained the object of the one that's in there, and it works as designed. Your mode has an entirely different goal but I acknowledge its usefulness and have said I can add it.

 

[cosam]

Uploaded a third beta PND:

• Rewrote audio handling - sound seems to work, finally!
• Additional controls mapped for use in rotated mode (Q, ".", Shift and A = A,B,X and Y)

 

[Mjlink]

STEVEM,

Thanks for the sound!!

Thanks for the effort!

= RockStar

Peace & Pandora,

Link

 

[Jumpman]

Holy Shit! I'm gonna download this ASAP, and give it a go. SteveM, You Rock!

Chris

 

[jonlad1]

This is fandabidosie!

Oooh, forgot to ask, are saves states implemented in MAME4ALL?

 

[Jumpman]

SteveM, this is AWESOME!

I just deleted the GP2X version off my SD, as it is no longer needed. Do you have any plans to add in a Mame frontend? You know so when you select a game, you can see the game artwork and whatnot, that would be a very cool addition.

Also, do you have a donation link? I would love to throw you some funds for your hard work, it's greatly appreciated.

Please, keep up the good work. Maybe you can port over the CPS2/Capex emu, seeing how good you did on this one, just a thought!

Chris

 

[DaveC]

R-Type is 256 lines (I typoed on the horizontal figure) and this at 1:1 really is tiny. This is what I'm trying to avoid.

We are talking about two different modes. I've explained the object of the one that's in there, and it works as designed. Your mode has an entirely different goal but I acknowledge its usefulness and have said I can add it.

Ok that is fine. For the case like in R-type I would think one would just run it scaled to fit in that case. I am not sure who would run that with much of the screen cropped. I really don't actually see anything that the current integer mode would be good for as the vast majority will be badly cropped to the point of it being unplayable. I know you said you can add the other mode and that isfine but there will be a bazzillion different modes for scaling that one can start to get confused (remember now you need to have all of these modes for both rotated and regular).

Also now that Notaz allows the filter to be toggled on/off could a line in the menu be added for filter on/off and be saved per game like the other options? This is the main reason to have an integer mode at all is to do an integer mode and nearest neighbor for sharpness. Right now as everything is filtered there is almost no point to integer as it looks pretty much the same as fractional with the filter on both.

Do you think a way to run vector games bigger than a post stamp is going to be added? Talk about "tiny"

Also samples are not working unless i screwed something up.

Good work on this though, it is getting nice

 

[cosam]

Oooh, forgot to ask, are saves states implemented in MAME4ALL?

Don't think so. Could be hidden in the menu somewhere but I've never come across it.

Do you have any plans to add in a Mame frontend? You know so when you select a game, you can see the game artwork and whatnot, that would be a very cool addition.

No plans just now but if something was ported it's be easy enough to plug in. The current menu is actually a front end too; the MAME executable is completely separate and so can be run from anywhere. I thought about porting my own FE but there's a lot of old-style OpenGL in there and I'm not sure how it'd perform on the Pandora.

Also, do you have a donation link? I would love to throw you some funds for your hard work, it's greatly appreciated.

Really not necessary, but I may set something up as it gets "less beta". I'm not in this for money but it would of course be cool if donations would cover the occasional SD card or whatever.

Please, keep up the good work. Maybe you can port over the CPS2/Capex emu, seeing how good you did on this one, just a thought!

Is the source available? FinalBurn Alpha would be nice too, eh? ;-) No-one working on either of these yet?

Also now that Notaz allows the filter to be toggled on/off could a line in the menu be added for filter on/off and be saved per game like the other options? This is the main reason to have an integer mode at all is to do an integer mode and nearest neighbor for sharpness. Right now as everything is filtered there is almost no point to integer as it looks pretty much the same as fractional with the filter on both.

Yes, I will be adding this. The integer mode was included in anticipation of the nearest neighbour filter.

Do you think a way to run vector games bigger than a post stamp is going to be added? Talk about "tiny"

Hmm... I thought this might have been fixed already but I never tried it. Will have to dig out Asteroids or something and have a look.

Also samples are not working unless i screwed something up.

Yeah, never tested that either. I don't think any of my changes would have affected it though. If you're following the below and it still doesn't work, let me know and I'll look into it. The samples directory should be in appdata.

The sound samples are used to get complete sound in some of the oldest games.
They are placed into the 'samples' directory compressed into ZIP files.
The directory and the ZIP files are named using low case!.

The sound samples collection can be downloaded in the following link:
http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/gp2x.cgi?0,0,0,0,5,2511

You can also use "clrmame.dat" file with ClrMAME Pro utility to get the samples pack.

 

[Hitnrun]

So you figured out the sound problem? Nice! Was it a buffer problem, or you completly rewrote the audio parts of the library?

 

[jonlad1]

Hey Steve,

Found an small issue (maybe)...

When playing games with four players (TMNT, Simpsons) you can play as other characters with right+select (Player 3 for example) to add coin and right+Start to start the game as player 3.
This doesnt seem to be working for me. Am I doing this correctly?

 

[CapcomSuicide]

Steve,

Thanks so much for your hard work on this Emu!

Can't wait to try the PND tonight!

andora2ut4:

Please sort out a Paypal, or if you don't want that, name a charity!

 

[cosam]

So you figured out the sound problem? Nice! Was it a buffer problem, or you completly rewrote the audio parts of the library?

I ended up chopping out the separate buffers and replacing them with one big one. This made it easier (for me) to follow where I should be writing to and reading from. It's all SDL now, so a bit easier to digest. The current PND does however have a potential buffer overrun but this is (hopefully) fixed in the code already.

(I had a look if the same approach would work on PocketSNES, but the sound code in the emulation bits assumes separate buffers so it would take a bit of extra work. So if you're looking for something to do, the current code is here ;-)

When playing games with four players (TMNT, Simpsons) you can play as other characters with right+select (Player 3 for example) to add coin and right+Start to start the game as player 3.
This doesnt seem to be working for me. Am I doing this correctly?

Strange if this doesn't work - I've not touched any of that code. I'd like to get rid of these key combos though anyway as we have plenty of keys just to use 2,3,4 and 6,7,8 like the big MAMEs do.

 

[jonlad1]

So you figured out the sound problem? Nice! Was it a buffer problem, or you completly rewrote the audio parts of the library?

I ended up chopping out the separate buffers and replacing them with one big one. This made it easier (for me) to follow where I should be writing to and reading from. It's all SDL now, so a bit easier to digest. The current PND does however have a potential buffer overrun but this is (hopefully) fixed in the code already.

(I had a look if the same approach would work on PocketSNES, but the sound code in the emulation bits assumes separate buffers so it would take a bit of extra work. So if you're looking for something to do, the current code is here ;-)

When playing games with four players (TMNT, Simpsons) you can play as other characters with right+select (Player 3 for example) to add coin and right+Start to start the game as player 3.
This doesnt seem to be working for me. Am I doing this correctly?

Strange if this doesn't work - I've not touched any of that code. I'd like to get rid of these key combos though anyway as we have plenty of keys just to use 2,3,4 and 6,7,8 like the big MAMEs do.

Adding the 3p coin works, but I cant start the game as 3p using the same key config but with start. Give it a try when you get chance.

Button shortcuts is definitely the way to go.

Sound is fantastic!!

 

[gruso]

Fantastic improvement. I'm about to hit the hay so I've only tried one game (NBA Jam). The sound was still a little choppy but 90% good. It also crashed at one point but I didn't see it happen - I was looking elsewhere and it was at the desktop when I looked back.