Let there be boards (2010 - 12 - 02)

[benji_stein]

2000 nubs are there, the rest should all be finished shortly after christmas.


Parts are all there to build all the remaining boards.

The nubs should be finished shortly after Christmas, or the boards? There's a difference of several weeks in that.

Cases are all there to build the remaining units.

No, cases are not all "there". 2k are in the UK, and another 2k are in Taiwan. You can't build the rest of the boards in either place, and doing some in Taiwan means extra delays in setup, initial runs, visiting to oversee, etc.

Nothing is missing, now it's basically up to the board production company to finish the boards. Everything else is fine.

Or so you think. Not to rain on your parade, but you've said (essentially) that same statement at least 5 times, and then been hit by Volcanoes, nub failures, and other delays.

TV Out cables are ready to be produced.


They should take about 4 - 6 weeks. We will give the GO once the next boards will really be shipped from Texas (so hopefully, end of this week).

Why wait? One week less is one week less that people have to wait, and if you'd started it a couple of weeks ago, they might even have arrived in time to ship out with this next 1000 boards. If there's no chance you'd ever *not* want the cables (they have been ordered already, after all), I see no purpose to additional delays.

They've been properly stored, as long as you don't discharge and recharge them constantly, they should be fine.

I was under the impression that even when in storage, they should be cycled every six months or so, but I might be thinking of another kind.

 

[TrashyMG]

About LiPo batteries.. My guess these batteries have fairly good shelf life since they're becoming popular in Cell-phone and laptops.


From Wikipedia...

Storage

Unlike certain other types of batteries, lithium polymer batteries can be stored for one or two months without significantly losing charge. However, if storing for long periods, manufacturers recommend discharging the battery to 40% of full charge.[6][7] In addition, other sources recommend refrigerating (but not freezing) the cell.[8]

 

[EvilDragon]

The nubs should be finished shortly after Christmas, or the boards? There's a difference of several weeks in that.

The remaining nubs, as I said above. 2000 are already in Texas, that's enough for 1000 finished boards.


According to the company in Texas, they have all boards finished and tested now (nubless) and they only need 2 weeks to put ALL the nubs on (for all 3000 boards!)


That's what they say, it's up to you if you believe them.


Nothing will happen during christmas time, that's for sure. The companies all close down.


We will be working, if we have anything to work on though.

No, cases are not all "there". 2k are in the UK, and another 2k are in Taiwan. You can't build the rest of the boards in either place, and doing some in Taiwan means extra delays in setup, initial runs, visiting to oversee, etc.

Well, then add 5 days of shipping to the cases, which means that they will be in UK long before the rest of the boards are there.

Or so you think. Not to rain on your parade, but you've said (essentially) that same statement at least 5 times, and then been hit by Volcanoes, nub failures, and other delays.

Then please share with me what's missing in your opinion, except for the remaining nubs that are in production and the boards that are in production.


When we delivered the Pandoras, nothing was missing as well. That the nubs all failed had nothing to do with anything "missing".


900 Pandoras are out in the wild for months and no board has failed. The only thing that has failed were the nubs.


Sure, we shouldn't forget that the US president might eventually launch a nuclear weapon strike at the board company, because he pressed the wrong button...

Why wait? One week less is one week less that people have to wait, and if you'd started it a couple of weeks ago, they might even have arrived in time to ship out with this next 1000 boards. If there's no chance you'd ever *not* want the cables (they have been ordered already, after all), I see no purpose to additional delays.

I need to order at least 1000 TV Out Cables. They cost money (a couple of thousand EUR).


We don't know yet if the board production company is really working or lying to us. We'll find that out hopefully when Trey is visiting them or when they ship the next batch of boards.


Can you assure me no one is going to ask for a refund when the company still is working slowly?


Yes, we are on the way of setting everything up at a different company already. But if that takes a while and there are way more refunds than new orders, I'm happy for every EUR I have to ensure we can produce the Pandora reliable soon.


When the current company ships the next 1000 boards, I'm assured that production there is okay now and can happily order the cables.


If not, you never know what will happen. Of course we'll try to manage, but I rather have TV Out Cables delayed than running out of money shortly before we resolve the production because I spent that money on the cables already.

 

[EvilDragon]

Storage


Unlike certain other types of batteries, lithium polymer batteries can be stored for one or two months without significantly losing charge. However, if storing for long periods, manufacturers recommend discharging the battery to 40% of full charge.[6][7] In addition, other sources recommend refrigerating (but not freezing) the cell.[8]

Yes, and that's the charging level we get them from the manufacturer.

 

[Kieroshark]

Sure, we shouldn't forget that the US president might eventually launch a nuclear weapon strike at the board company, because he pressed the wrong button...

Oh god! Don't even say that.


*crosses fingers*

 

[devhace]

ED, will the board company wait to ship all the boards with nubs until they're all done? Or will they ship them in increments as they finish them? It would be very nice if we could get them at least in thousands so you could start working on them sooner.

 

[EvilDragon]

ED, will the board company wait to ship all the boards with nubs until they're all done? Or will they ship them in increments as they finish them? It would be very nice if we could get them at least in thousands so you could start working on them sooner.

We told them we want at least 500 shipped this Saturday, so we can start building while they continue to solder the nubs there.

 

[007jaws]

We told them we want at least 500 shipped this Saturday, so we can start building while they continue to solder the nubs there.

Well done EvilDragon for your continued hard work, And 'Thanks for sticking with us'


I hope you through in a wifi cable with the Caanoo that i ordered from you last week LOL!


Anyway there is no way Craig will be able to assemble 20 Pandoras in one week due to all the other stuff he is doing?


I hope 500 boards are shipped Soon!

 

[Link]

Why do people think that Pandora# 901 can't exist until there are 3000 complete boards and 3000 cases for them?


If Texas ships 500 or 1000 finished boards to the UK this week, I am happy.


ED Thank you for your vigilence

 

[andyhamer]

The remaining nubs, as I said above. 2000 are already in Texas, that's enough for 1000 finished boards.


According to the company in Texas, they have all boards finished and tested now (nubless) and they only need 2 weeks to put ALL the nubs on (for all 3000 boards!)


That's what they say, it's up to you if you believe them.


Nothing will happen during christmas time, that's for sure. The companies all close down.


We will be working, if we have anything to work on though.


Well, then add 5 days of shipping to the cases, which means that they will be in UK long before the rest of the boards are there.


Then please share with me what's missing in your opinion, except for the remaining nubs that are in production and the boards that are in production.


When we delivered the Pandoras, nothing was missing as well. That the nubs all failed had nothing to do with anything "missing".


900 Pandoras are out in the wild for months and no board has failed. The only thing that has failed were the nubs.


Sure, we shouldn't forget that the US president might eventually launch a nuclear weapon strike at the board company, because he pressed the wrong button...


I need to order at least 1000 TV Out Cables. They cost money (a couple of thousand EUR).


We don't know yet if the board production company is really working or lying to us. We'll find that out hopefully when Trey is visiting them or when they ship the next batch of boards.


Can you assure me no one is going to ask for a refund when the company still is working slowly?


Yes, we are on the way of setting everything up at a different company already. But if that takes a while and there are way more refunds than new orders, I'm happy for every EUR I have to ensure we can produce the Pandora reliable soon.


When the current company ships the next 1000 boards, I'm assured that production there is okay now and can happily order the cables.


If not, you never know what will happen. Of course we'll try to manage, but I rather have TV Out Cables delayed than running out of money shortly before we resolve the production because I spent that money on the cables already.

Ed -


As long as you are in it for the long haul, so am i (and i'm sure many others) i feel it's my duty in the light of the dedication shown by yourself & the rest of the team.


Keep your chin up, for every bit of nit-picking posted

https://www.youtube.com/embed/KuStsFW4EmQ?feature=oembed
there are just as many positive waves (including i'm sure your good self)


Keep on keeping on - i for one, am with you all the way!

 

[EvilDragon]

Keep on keeping on - i for one, am with you all the way!

Thanks!


I will be going on! It's not an easy ride, but I won't give up and neither does anyone from the rest of the team


I'm using my Pandora daily, and I would not want to miss it.


Other users here on the boards also would not want to miss it anymore!


So I'll be doing EVERYTHING I can to get the remaining units into your hands

 

[McLovin]

We told them we want at least 500 shipped this Saturday, so we can start building while they continue to solder the nubs there.

So, if those 500 boards actually get shipped on Saturday... any chance another 100 pandoras will be shipped to your german customers till christmas? *hope*

 

[EvilDragon]

So, if those 500 boards actually get shipped on Saturday... any chance another 100 pandoras will be shipped to your german customers till christmas? *hope*

It will be tight getting units to my customers until christmas, as they need to be built at Craigs place first, then shipped to me, packaged up and shipped to you... but I'll try to work as fast as possible.

 

[ChrisK]

ED, I just want to say that I think most people trust your (and the team's) judgement on how to proceed in regards to manufacturing the Pandora.


P.S. You wacky Germans continue to mangle the use of "by", "while", and "until".

 

[Farox]

Thank's a lot ED !!


I'm with you


Hope Wed Trey could give us good news from Texas.

 

[Wootson]

Didn't OpenPandora ever let these people sign a contract or something? If it was my project there would be a very hard deadline for every company I had to deal with.


No boards or nubs at a specific date, then pay X amount of cash. It's really quite simple. This is the way things get done in the real world.


The whole roles were switched around if everything was done right from the start. Small company or not, you don't have to let other people screw you (and your customers) over. I surely hope that the next time OpenPandora sets up a decent contract with a no-bullshit-policy attached to it.

 

[EvilDragon]

Didn't OpenPandora ever let these people sign a contract or something? If it was my project there would be a very hard deadline for every company I had to deal with.


No boards or nubs at a specific date, then pay X amount of cash. It's really quite simple. This is the way things get done in the real world.

No, unfortunately, it's not that easy. We asked multiple companies - they won't do that with such a complicated and new project. They will do it for later batches, when they know exactly how the boards can be produced.


That doesn't mean they can do that forever though - they have to stick to their given deadlines. Yes, we pretty much could sue them to get money back.


That would take a few months though... and they surely wouldn't continue if we sued them, so that surely would be an issue.


However, don't forget that any contracts they did would be invalid right now.


Any contract would say they will produce xxx amounts of boards until a given date when all the parts are there.


They just got 2000 nubs today to put them on the boards. So they could tell "we couldn't build the boards, we didn't have the nubs".


That excuse won't work anymore, once they have all existing nubs.

The whole roles were switched around if everything was done right from the start. Small company or not, you don't have to let other people screw you (and your customers) over. I surely hope that the next time OpenPandora sets up a decent contract with a no-bullshit-policy attached to it.

As set, we tried that a few times, no company will do that.


They need to stick to their given deadlines, so we could sue them... but that would not be very smart at the moment.


We could do so once the new manufacturing facility is completely setup so we are not reliable to them anymore.

 

[marktuson]

Didn't OpenPandora ever let these people sign a contract or something? If it was my project there would be a very hard deadline for every company I had to deal with.


No boards or nubs at a specific date, then pay X amount of cash. It's really quite simple. This is the way things get done in the real world.


The whole roles were switched around if everything was done right from the start. Small company or not, you don't have to let other people screw you (and your customers) over. I surely hope that the next time OpenPandora sets up a decent contract with a no-bullshit-policy attached to it.

Yeah, this is what I've been thinking. Penalties for late delivery, because the date it part of the package; if you're late, you're not delivering what's been paid for, therefore I want a discount, please - sort of thing.


And +1 for the positive waves.

 

[EvilDragon]

Yeah, this is what I've been thinking. Penalties for late delivery, because the date it part of the package; if you're late, you're not delivering what's been paid for, therefore I want a discount, please - sort of thing.

Sure, possible for later batches. But a problem if you didn't deliver all the parts (nubs) there...

 

[- Theo -]

Didn't OpenPandora ever let these people sign a contract or something? If it was my project there would be a very hard deadline for every company I had to deal with.


No boards or nubs at a specific date, then pay X amount of cash. It's really quite simple. This is the way things get done in the real world.


The whole roles were switched around if everything was done right from the start. Small company or not, you don't have to let other people screw you (and your customers) over. I surely hope that the next time OpenPandora sets up a decent contract with a no-bullshit-policy attached to it.

The problem is how the capitalist world works: when you're small, your partners can screw you, because you don't bring them a lot of business (compared to bigger customers) and loosing the business wouldn't be such a big deal for them. No-bullshit-policies will never replace good relationship, which are unfortunately tied to (that's the way it goes) promises for good profit. That's what they'll hopefully have when Pandora is bigger.