Less Then A Week Until Preorders And No Finished Pandora

[ashdjones]

OpenPandora need a PR guy.

I would like to volunteer for this. I'm thinking maybe Craig will be okay with a phonecall every couple of days to to chat about how things are going (of course they would need to give me access to the newsfeed too).

At the moment, the lack of communication is a serious issue. All sorts of ill feelings are arising from this which don't need to be.

 

[Dunny]

This is a concern, certainly. I'm not terribly bothered about the lack of startup-GUI vids, but more that I've not yet seen anyone playing any games with the on-board controls.

I vividly recall the bloody awful GP2X controller, and the fact that they still haven't got it right yet - people in the community are having to fix their own. I'm not sure that I want to pre-order without knowing that the second batch is going to radically re-work the controls because they're unusable in the first batch (like the GP2X was). It's also my understanding that none of the devs have yet to try the controls either.

The only saving grace is that if I'm right, DaveC has had a hand in designing the controllers. He and I have butted heads a few times in the past, but that guy really does know about game controls.

It sure is a lot of money for something that's not even been tested yet.

D.

 

[ste_167]

We need to listen to what's being said by craigix and EvilDragon.

It's just not feasible to make one-off prototpye parts (and hence a 'full' Pandora) before the pre-order date.
It would wipe out the profits. There'd be no Pandora.

Get your money put down. It'll retain its value, there's little to lose. Fifty videos wouldn't really show the quality of the controls. I have faith they've got it right, but will only know once I get my hands on it.

andora1: andora1: andora1:

 

[eksasol]

i am not worried.

 

[Babrios]

I think the developers have put their small budget into the things that really count.
They have delivered handcrafted developer boards, shown the system itself is working, we have seen emulators performing astonishingly well, even without graphics hardware support.
If somebody developed a revolutionary new laptop and showed me the board was working plus some renderings of the case, I would not think I'd need to see a finished prototype. A case with hinges, keyboard and a few buttons is not actually hot revolutionary new technology. It's easy everydays basic work in mass production. I fail to see the potential risk there. And understand the reluctance spending money on those awfully expensive complete prototypes.

I would be worried, if the developers had decided to do it the other way around. Presenting prototype cases along with a spec sheet of a nonexistent motherboard. Some well known companies introduce their new products in a way which the public could rightfully call "vaporware" before official release. But oddly hardly anyone ever complains about it.

I can understand however, that for a console with gaming controles, it would be reassuring if somebody had played with a completely assembled unit before. If the lack of a sturdy case is the reason for not assembling some sort of prototype with gaming controls, it might be an idea to make one using the folding technique for the paper mockups, but with metal sheets instead of paper. Corners soldered with silver lead etc. Inner fitting sockets can be made from little woodblocks glued in. Keys, if not already available, could be made of resin, then fitted with microswitches, in case there is no rubber mat. Might be a bit crude, but cheaper than a real prototype and perhaps could show the gaming controls work ok where they are fitted. Maybe one of the developers knows someone who can handcraft it, to please the public.

 

[Spirit]

Wait, what happened to the THEREAREONLY3000UNITSANDTHEYWILLSELLOUTINSTANTLY-panic?

I am not worried about anything.

 

[kevcal]

Heh, I just think you all have too much time on your hands (I'm jealous)

There have been enough videos of software in action - one now coming (with sound) from ED apparently.
The GUI is software, it can be updated at any time - my software is rarely complete before the hardware is available and commonly needs some rework when the finished hardware is released.
I think what you've seen in videos should go some way to allay fears about what the finished hardware is like - only outstanding issues I see are sound and graphics hardware utilisation; which again people are working on.

Controls are a personal choice. As has been said, DaveC has been involved and I think we can probably trust his judgement on these things; you won't know for sure is you like the controls until you have a pandora in your hands anyway, no matter what anyone says or does.

If you have any qualms about pre-ordering - just don't do it - no-one's forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do(!). There are way too many posts on the pre-ordering subject; maybe back off a bit as repeated posts about the same thing aren't helping anything. :blink:

Edit: added 's'.

 

[---_Won_---]

I think it was Einstein that said, "an hour with a pretty girl passes like a minuet, a minuet sat on top of a hot stove passes like an hour" Checking the forums for updates daily will just make the wait that much worse, as soon as I have made my pre-order on the 30th I won't bother checking the forums very often, just try and forget about it and let the devs get on with it..Time is relative!

 

[Kyo]

Hooray, more information! That will definitely quiet me for at least 5 minutes!

 

[EvilDragon]

Ok so sorry to throw the bomb in here but I have to ask... will it incorporate multi-tasking? I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) that the current gmenu2x doesn't

then the staight port probably won't, too.


Basically, gmenu2x runs in multitasking.
You can easily drop to a shell using the serial out on the cradle and run other programs while gmenu2x is running.
The problem on the gp2x is the Framebuffer: If you run a program which also uses the framebuffer (like gmenu2x), the screen flickers and shows both (gmenu2x and the program).
This is why you can't use multitasking off-the-shelf for the gp2x with gmenu2x.
Some programs DO multitask. You can run music with MPD which keeps playing in the background while you navigate through gmenu2x on the gp2x, for example.

The Pandora has kdrive as basis. SDL Framebuffer runs on kdrive (which is a tiny XServer). So as soon as you run gmenuPandora, the video output runs on kdrive. When you run another program, it also runs on kdrive.
So kdrive manages which window is front, multitasking works out-of-the-box.

The only thing that needs to be implemented is a task switcher, multitasking works.

If you configure kdrive to run in windowed mode, you can even move the apps around in windows on the screen like you do on a normal desktop.
That will be the advanced mode: A fully fledged desktop with windows, etc.

Not useful if you only want to play, though, so the standard GUI will be gmenu with semitasking

About lack of videos:
Okay, I did post only a few videos... the first one showed more than one thing, though.
I could also have created a video which shows Linux booting.
One with SNES emulation.
One with Genesis emulation.
One with ...

But I thought one video which shows all would be better.

If you tell me WHAT videos you want to have, I'll create them.
But I can't show any videos of stuff that hasn't been coded yet

About lack of information: At the moment, we have PRETTY much work to do. Negotiate, organize, etc.
It's NOT easy to get all parts needed for a handheld together.
So more information would mean less time to do the rest would mean more delays.

Please do understand that we all have other jobs, too. How could you develop a Pandora for 2 years, investing money like hell if you don't have any other job?

I for myself got 5 hours of sleep each night during the last week. At the moment we are focussing on getting everything we need. As soon as negotiations have finished and ALL orders for the parts have been placed (basically when preordering starts), we might have more time to give you some more information...

It's a hell lot of work we have been facing during the last months

 

[conso]

Ok so sorry to throw the bomb in here but I have to ask... will it incorporate multi-tasking? I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) that the current gmenu2x doesn't

then the staight port probably won't, too.


Basically, gmenu2x runs in multitasking.
You can easily drop to a shell using the serial out on the cradle and run other programs while gmenu2x is running.
The problem on the gp2x is the Framebuffer: If you run a program which also uses the framebuffer (like gmenu2x), the screen flickers and shows both (gmenu2x and the program).
This is why you can't use multitasking off-the-shelf for the gp2x with gmenu2x.
Some programs DO multitask. You can run music with MPD which keeps playing in the background while you navigate through gmenu2x on the gp2x, for example.

The Pandora has kdrive as basis. SDL Framebuffer runs on kdrive (which is a tiny XServer). So as soon as you run gmenuPandora, the video output runs on kdrive. When you run another program, it also runs on kdrive.
So kdrive manages which window is front, multitasking works out-of-the-box.

The only thing that needs to be implemented is a task switcher, multitasking works.

If you configure kdrive to run in windowed mode, you can even move the apps around in windows on the screen like you do on a normal desktop.
That will be the advanced mode: A fully fledged desktop with windows, etc.

Not useful if you only want to play, though, so the standard GUI will be gmenu with semitasking

About lack of videos:
Okay, I did post only a few videos... the first one showed more than one thing, though.
I could also have created a video which shows Linux booting.
One with SNES emulation.
One with Genesis emulation.
One with ...

But I thought one video which shows all would be better.

If you tell me WHAT videos you want to have, I'll create them.
But I can't show any videos of stuff that hasn't been coded yet

About lack of information: At the moment, we have PRETTY much work to do. Negotiate, organize, etc.
It's NOT easy to get all parts needed for a handheld together.
So more information would mean less time to do the rest would mean more delays.

Please do understand that we all have other jobs, too. How could you develop a Pandora for 2 years, investing money like hell if you don't have any other job?

I for myself got 5 hours of sleep each night during the last week. At the moment we are focussing on getting everything we need. As soon as negotiations have finished and ALL orders for the parts have been placed (basically when preordering starts), we might have more time to give you some more information...

It's a hell lot of work we have been facing during the last months


I think the most irritating thing of the last months is: It was announced, that a fully assembled prototype was on the way to you for the GC in Leipzig, but then it didn't make it in time and no one of us knows, where it is. Has it actually been produced? Was it lost by the parcel service? Did it have serious issues, so you tried to hide it from the public? What happened?

 

[polaris]

Thanks for some insightful clarification EvilDragon.

I still believe you need to assign someone dependable in the community to handle PR and frequently update the official blog, frequent updates will only serve to generate more hype prior to the pre-order/launch.

 

[dbzeag]

Basically, gmenu2x runs in multitasking.
You can easily drop to a shell using the serial out on the cradle and run other programs while gmenu2x is running.
The problem on the gp2x is the Framebuffer: If you run a program which also uses the framebuffer (like gmenu2x), the screen flickers and shows both (gmenu2x and the program).
This is why you can't use multitasking off-the-shelf for the gp2x with gmenu2x.
Some programs DO multitask. You can run music with MPD which keeps playing in the background while you navigate through gmenu2x on the gp2x, for example.

The Pandora has kdrive as basis. SDL Framebuffer runs on kdrive (which is a tiny XServer). So as soon as you run gmenuPandora, the video output runs on kdrive. When you run another program, it also runs on kdrive.
So kdrive manages which window is front, multitasking works out-of-the-box.

The only thing that needs to be implemented is a task switcher, multitasking works.

If you configure kdrive to run in windowed mode, you can even move the apps around in windows on the screen like you do on a normal desktop.
That will be the advanced mode: A fully fledged desktop with windows, etc.

Not useful if you only want to play, though, so the standard GUI will be gmenu with semitasking

About lack of videos:
Okay, I did post only a few videos... the first one showed more than one thing, though.
I could also have created a video which shows Linux booting.
One with SNES emulation.
One with Genesis emulation.
One with ...

But I thought one video which shows all would be better.

If you tell me WHAT videos you want to have, I'll create them.
But I can't show any videos of stuff that hasn't been coded yet

About lack of information: At the moment, we have PRETTY much work to do. Negotiate, organize, etc.
It's NOT easy to get all parts needed for a handheld together.
So more information would mean less time to do the rest would mean more delays.

Please do understand that we all have other jobs, too. How could you develop a Pandora for 2 years, investing money like hell if you don't have any other job?

I for myself got 5 hours of sleep each night during the last week. At the moment we are focussing on getting everything we need. As soon as negotiations have finished and ALL orders for the parts have been placed (basically when preordering starts), we might have more time to give you some more information...

It's a hell lot of work we have been facing during the last months

I understand the stress and such, and I understand it makes no sense to have a full on model prior to a preorder because it is still getting actively developed, but why couldn't the stuff I just bolded be posted on the main website in the Blog section? Why couldn't each to the developers have a 3 sentence blurb every other day or so with something just that simple? I mean I am sure all of the developers are talking to each other to see how far along a certain piece is. Why can't that transcription be posted on the Blog section?

Post what you are doing rather than reading about us asking what you are doing then extinguishing panic fires like you just did.

 

[techFreak]

Prototype is a prototype. It's for testing and reviewing purposes. Pandora is a serious piece of hardware. Nothing like this comes out at the first try. Sometimes it fails while making the board, sometimes it fails while trying to assemble the unit. Each failure and each prototype costs us a lot of money. So do not expect that we throw out a few prototypes around and take pictures and videos to tease people. B)

Currently, Pandora main board is a state of the art hardware. Everything is as we want. Now we're trying to make the other parts perfect. So we need to focus on them to make sure everyone receives their Pandora in the best possible condition in both software and hardware aspects.

 

[Karel Jansens]

If you guys wanna know about ripoffs and madman schemes, google "Medison Celebrity scam".

Then come back and badmouth Pandora. I dare you...

 

[ashdjones]

Post what you are doing rather than reading about us asking what you are doing then extinguishing panic fires like you just did.

Yes, exactly. This kind of communication needs to happen, it doesn't matter who posts it.

Even Wraggsters blog is more up-to-date and that relies on second-hand information!

http://pandora.dcemu.co.uk/

 

[jellmoo]

About lack of videos:
Okay, I did post only a few videos... the first one showed more than one thing, though.
I could also have created a video which shows Linux booting.
One with SNES emulation.
One with Genesis emulation.
One with ...

But I thought one video which shows all would be better.

If you tell me WHAT videos you want to have, I'll create them.
But I can't show any videos of stuff that hasn't been coded yet

I think a lot of people actually might have preferred a separate video for each task, rather than 1 video showing multiple actions. It probably would have given the illusion of a higher level of dev/customer communication. I think most people just look at the number of videos, without really judging them by content.

 

[Ryuu]

It is less then a week before preorders for the Pandora start and there have been no signs of a finished pandora. Will there be a video of a finished pandora before preorder??? Am I the only one who is nervous that there is about 2 months left and we have not seen the finished product???

Pre-orders are on the 30th and product shipment is a month later ... so they'll post sumthin then, well imo :unsure:

 

[joa]

I've no problem waiting for updates, it would be nice but i think we should be patient and relax, we know it's coming...

certainly no need for any 'i'm seriously NOT going to buy one if i don't see one before pre-order"

because...YOU know you WILL!!

When it does come out, whose up for some multiplayer bomberman? :lol:

 

[Ryuu]

I've no problem waiting for updates, it would be nice but i think we should be patient and relax, we know it's coming...

certainly no need for any 'i'm seriously NOT going to buy one if i don't see one before pre-order"

because...YOU know you WILL!!

When it does come out, whose up for some multiplayer bomberman? :lol:

after i play u at some quake 3