Is the Pandora's ABXY layout confusing?

[TrashyMG]

If we don't say [L] it's because Ctrl: Control are usually used for combinaisons. The reason L was named Ctrl is because on normal computer there is a Ctrl button (and it is treated as ctrl by the computer). The reason Pgdn was named like this isn't the same and the and there isn't any Pgdn button on a normal computer. That's why _wb_ used Ctrl because this name correspond to that exclusive use (combinaisons) while the name Pgdn correspond to the usage of indicate to the user that X make the page down.

Well there are two CTRL buttons and two SHIFT keys one set is on the Keyboard and the others are shoulder buttons.. Just like on a regular keyboard they're different entities (Left SHIFT/CTRL and Right SHIFT/CTRL) and can be mapped separately. 


NVM after spending 5 minutes trying to figure out what you are getting with that broken up paragraph I realize my response has nothing to do with it.


Also I beg to differ about PGDN not being on a normal computer: 

Spoiler

 

[God Ginrai]

and there isn't any Pgdn button on a normal computer

I'm not even sure if you own a keyboard. Are you typing these posts with your phone?

-God Ginrai

 

[Kiga]

I'm not even sure if you own a keyboard. Are you typing these posts with your phone?

Who care?

NVM after spending 5 minutes trying to figure out what you are getting with that broken up paragraph I realize my response has nothing to do with it.


Also I beg to differ about PGDN not being on a normal computer:

Well, that's change nothing, Pgdn is a button dedicated to page down, while Ctrl is dedicated to combinaisons. that's why we says Ctrl+X instead of L+X and instead of ctrl+pgdn.

 

[Neelix]

Is there any chance of removing the word frequently from the poll questions? (or adding similar questions with "occasionally") Currently it only offers options to express frequent or initial confusion or none at all.

- Neelix

 

[God Ginrai]

Well, that's change nothing, Pgdn is a button dedicated to page down, while Ctrl is dedicated to combinaisons. that's why we says Ctrl+X instead of L+X and instead of ctrl+pgdn.

All Key sequences are combinations of Modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Meta, Super) and Keypresses. (Z,X,C,V, 1, PageDn, etc.) Since the keypress that the X button generates is PageDn, you would refer to that Key Sequence as "Ctrl-PageDn".

-God Ginrai

 

[Kevin Osuna]

     ¿Could it be possible to use clear plastic button keys for the action buttons and underneath them they could place an e-ink screen on top of the rubber key-mat so we could change the configuration or use any characters we want?

     it will require a clever design and a lot of testing but I think it could be an awesome feature. It would be a cheaper version of the keys used by Razer in their keyboards. A led could be placed in the center of the 4 or 6 buttons and the buttons could be connected through them by making an extended part in each of them so they will work as light pipes too, because they'll be on top of the let. I guess it's too late for something like this, though.

>e-ink screen resists a lot of pressure and eats almost no power.

>we would't need the latest type of e-ink screen for something like this, because there's no need for fast refresh rate. 

>the button keys could come in different colors as long as they are transparent. 

> it would represent more costs but it would be cool and useful to have something like that.

  ...it's just an idea hahaha

 

[Kiga]

That isn't impossible, the issue would be to convince E-ink or Guanzhou OED to produce tiny e-ink screen  and to find a companie which can produce these keys. A good idea but hardly feasible.

 

[Kevin Osuna]

That isn't impossible, the issue would be to convince E-ink or Guanzhou OED to produce tiny e-ink screen  and to find a companie which can produce these keys. A good idea but hardly feasible.

yeah, not to mention how it would delay the progress that has been done already on the PCB design by gta04. maybe for the Dragonbox: Pyra 2?

 

[Klumpen]

Yes, it's a major flaw of the Pandora and I get confused, but not because there is an A-Key and an A-Button.

All my confusion is there because (as I've said before) the order of the buttons is messed up by using the same labels like the SNES I grew up with but in other places.

It should have been SNES-layout or something entirely different from the very beginning.

 

[moxie]

I voted "No", but the option isn't really spot on. I almost never look at the actual labels. I realized the other day that my pandora has the X and Y buttons switched. Apparently, it never bothered me

 

[Foxgod]

I wouldnt not mind if the order of the abxy is changed, as long as it remains abxy styled.

I dont like having greek characters or other type of characters, because they look cheap, and will make the pyra look like a chinese knockoff device.

 

[EvilDragon]

My solution doesn't suggest going in either of those directions. I do admit I am not part of the design team, but I am trying to suggest solutions, and the only reason we haven't confirmed these solutions is because EvilDragon has not responded to my posts about it.

I haven't even seen one of these posts nor received a PM or similar, as far as I know.

 

[TrashyMG]

Well, that's change nothing, Pgdn is a button dedicated to page down, while Ctrl is dedicated to combinaisons. that's why we says Ctrl+X instead of L+X and instead of ctrl+pgdn.

No CTRL isn't always dedicated to combinations especially when it comes to gaming, have you played any game with a keyboard and mouse?,  generally CTRL was used as the fire button on many old games, Modern 3D shooters left control is often used as crouch or jump.. Going back way further back to IBM dumb terminal emulation the right CTRL is used as the enter key, since the terminals had an enter and return button that had slightly different uses..  


But that isn't the point is it.. There will be a CTRL and SHIFT key on the regular keyboard.. people will know that the shoulder buttons and the face buttons have other uses such as PGUP and PGDN.

 

[WizardStan]

Is there any chance of removing the word frequently from the poll questions? (or adding similar questions with "occasionally")

That's fair. How about "periodically"? I wanted to distinguish between "it happened a few times at the start but now I'm fine" vs "it happened at the start and it just keeps happening bro" The exact frequency it happens shouldn't matter, just that it still happens enough to be a bother.

 

[Neelix]

I would have used "repeatedly"  though I suppose periodically works too.

Thanks.

- Neelix

 

[God Ginrai]

My solution doesn't suggest going in either of those directions. I do admit I am not part of the design team, but I am trying to suggest solutions, and the only reason we haven't confirmed these solutions is because EvilDragon has not responded to my posts about it.

I haven't even seen one of these posts nor received a PM or similar, as far as I know.

I'll send it to you in a PM now so you don't have to go hunting back through the pages of the most recent button topics to find my posts.

-God Ginrai

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

what is it?  Can you post it here too.  I lost track of this Action Button thing long time ago too 

 

[God Ginrai]

what is it?  Can you post it here too.  I lost track of this Action Button thing long time ago too 

No, we've already gone sufficiently off-topic about this subject in this topic. I made the post in the Action Buttons topic, and then quoted the post right after into the third poll topic when I saw EvilDragon ask me in the poll topic to give him one suggestion. You can find it easily enough in one of those topics.

-God Ginrai

 

[Majin Wamu]

I think the button layout is kind of weird, especially when I first got the Pandora, but it proves that it doesn't make a difference what the buttons are labeled as, well for me anyways. What I am saying is when I change the button commands in an emulator, I don't pay attention to the label of the button, I just enter the button that is most comfortable for me. For example, when playing a PSX game, I make X the south button, square the west button, circle the east button, and triangle the north button. I really have no idea what letters these buttons are but I know what they do by their position. Besides, each console the emulators emulates have different layouts (Sega VS SNES) so it really doesn't make a different what the buttons are labeled as on the Pandora (and soon the Pyra).

 

[comradekingu]

I think its a case of asking people for a mode of transportation and getting "faster horses" as a reply.

While i can live with any ABXY in use, on a design level i cannot. It messes with my head, even if it was standardized. It isnt, and adding buttons to something on the notion that this is how it is, is what lead to said problem.

Forsight is greatly lacking, its not dealing with the issues that arise from it, its broken because it never was right, but sort of halfway ok.  Made a post about it

All the polls are not dealing with this preconceived notion, or have designs that aren't thought through, or other problems entirely. The legality of imitating trademarks for example.

A good paradigm doesn't arise from asking what labels to put on the buttons, since that isn't the key (puns intended), nor is it the whole puzzle.

We need to know

sizes          How big are the buttons

feel,            travel, feel

colours       how many to pick from, translucent?

positions,   where _exactly_ are the buttons.

engraving,  the pandora has engraved letters, visually un-invasive

shape  -  flat buttons, differing texture?

lighting - where are the leds, how many, how bright

contrast -. to the basecoat colour

Right now we are in a car, driving at great speed, into a wreckage of mayhem and other crashed cars, instead of avoiding it we are discussing how to crash in the most gentle way possible, how much throttle and turn radius to apply instead of the real issues, and that has been the design process even before we picked up the stick.