Is Everything On Track For Early April Production?

[torpor]

Godamnit, just ship the bloody Pandora's!!! The more eyes that look at the problem, the better .. and yeah, if the hardware proves to be faulty: FIX THE HARDWARE FOR THE NEXT RELEASE, and let us swap out the boards.

I would wager that there is a huge pool of developers just *waiting for hardware* to start pushing Pandora into fantastic-game-platform land. The WLAN issue - if it really is a hardware issue - should not be stopping that development!

 

[fusion_power]

I think, it can't be a hardware Problem. Makes no sense and is completely unlogic. I mean, after 4 (or 5) Board revisions, WiFi should work like it does onto every other device does. Because exactly this was actualy the reason, why it had so many Board revisions. I'm sure, there are reasons why MWeston choose to use SDIO instead of SPI, even if the SDIO Problems under Linux are long time known.
And I'm sure, the Chip-Manuacturer makes sure to deliver a WORKING Chip. So when MWeston uses the exact standards to connect the Chip onto the Board, these things also can't be faulty except the given "standards" are wrong from the beginning.
So if the Board is not the source of the errors, and the Chipset is not the source of the errors, I think the only remaining factor is the Firmware/OS. Strange enough because people always say, that Linux can do everything (better than Windos etc... )

I mean, HOW do the other Devices with this WLan and/or OMAP Chipset make the WIFI working? I would ask THEM and of course I would ask Texas Instruments, they know the WIFI Unit, maybe they have the right Driver-components?

 

[Phawx]

I'll take mine now. Thanks.

 

[notaz]

the SDIO Problems under Linux are long time known.

what problems?

 

[crade]

I think the only remaining factor is the Firmware/OS. Strange enough because people always say, that Linux can do everything (better than Windos etc... )

What people tell you that? If there is one thing linux can't do as well as windows, it is run windows drivers.

 

[mali]

the SDIO Problems under Linux are long time known.

what problems?

Can you elaborate, please? We just know the chat from the boards and we are no experts. What do you think is the problem regarding the disfunctonality of Wifi? It would be great, if you could shed some light on it

 

[Grench]

We just wanted to make an offer that you can use WiFi right from the start, that's why we want to offer you a small WiFi dongle and your Pandora NOW.

So are you saying that if we choose to get the Pandora now, we will get a Pandora with a dongle, and if the problem was in hardware you will let us exchange the board (and the dongle?) for a new board?

Exactly. We sure hope it's not a hardware thing, as it would mean quite a lot of work and some more cost for us... but there's no need to let you all wait.
If it's really hardware thing, we have to fix those boards anyways - regardless if you have them or if they are still lying around in the MP facility... so no need to hold them back at all.
And if it's software, someone else might find a fix, so it might even speed things up.

So either way, it surely does make sense to me.

Or you can get it right away including a dongle so you get a full functional Pandora including a minimal WiFi dongle which surely won't get in your way - starting delivery in April. And if there really is something wrong (as said, there's always a chance), we offer to fix it.

Will this be the first thousand preorderers only or including the other 3 thousand people who ordered.who get their pandora now

The hardware fix / exchange? Well, anyone who got a faulty Pandora from us will be valid for an exchange, that's for sure.
But as we are still working on finding a fix while the production and assembly continues, we sure hope we'll get a fix after the first 1000 have been delivered.

Perfectly reasonable - especially the offer to fix them if it turns out to be a hardware issue that can not be worked around. I don't see many, if any, people turning down the free wifi nub offer. In fact, I'd be inclined to ship all 4000 this way - get that batch out the door and in hands. I know there must be some pain in buying 4000 802.11 USB dongles - but it isn't likely much more than making a hardware change and re-printing the boards or swapping out a component. In fact, skip the offer to repair the on-board wifi if it is hardware since you're supplying a hardware solution (USB plug). Then fix it for batch 2 and sell us batch 1 people the replacement hardware at cost.

If the community can't fix the driver issue, then that is the #1 change on the list for the 2nd batch. At that point you may as well put the WiFi on the low power USB port and have it turn off/switch to the hard wired mini-USB guest port when plugged into something other than a charger. At that point the internal sdio header could be turned into an internal SDHC slot = 96GB onboard... I'm liking this idea.

Lets get it into people's hands and see if it can be fixed. The more the merrier - the difference between order 1000 and order 2000 is what? 6 hours on the order page? Do all 4000 this way - then review. If it can't be fixed with software by the community, then make a revision to batch 2 and charge us all cost for a replacement motherboard with the revisions on it. If anyone doesn't want to do it under -this- kind of scenario, let them opt to move their order to batch 2 without the batch 2 up-charge / price hike.

Simple.

 

[kingoddball]

F**K the Wifi.. Simple.. Dongle me!

I didn't want this thread to come out as a fight against OP. I just wanted a simple answer.

We got half an answer..

BUT!!! Why has no one mentioned the MOTHERBOARDS FROM TEXAS!?

The boards are actually what I was asking for.

They seem like the "DarkHorse" that we don't hear about....

It's just strange that all we hear about are the cases, they were fine (IMO) but the Mobo's are the sticky wicket... They are the slowest part to assemble.

Have they been cranking out the 500 per week for the past month since OP mentioned april 1st MP?

 

[Caine]

That offer is more than fair ED.

If it turns out I'm in the first 1000 (I don't really know, ordered day 1 in Germany between 17:00 and 18:00 or so),
then I'll gladly take that offer.

Time to dive into WiFi drivers I suppose

 

[atomicthumbs]

We'll probably let you decide if you want your Pandora NOW (and we might even throw in a free mini-WiFi-Stick so you can use WiFi with your Pandora!) or wait until everything is sorted out. And when I mean YOU, I'm not talking about a public discussion - every single customer can decide if he wants it now with stick or wait until internal WiFi is sorted out.

that is seriously some of the best customer service I've ever seen. you guys are awesome.

 

[torpor]

The answer to this nightmare is simple: Make 1000 Pandoras, ship them as fast as possible, let us help work out the wrinkles in the hardware.

 

[Dead1nside]

Your decision is admirable. Like others has said that's almost above and beyond the call of duty, high quality customer service.

So you're making up 1000 for people who want it now, with the dongle? What about if you have more than 1000 people who are happy to have a dongle for now, and replacement/repair if it cannot be remedied in software later?

I'd certainly plump to have the Pandora sooner with the dongle, and if it turns out to be a hardware problem, replacement/repair later.

Thanks guys.

 

[Monk]

And btw people, why the hell would te pandora be delayed again?

Thanks. Don't you KNOW that is the majic "throw a spanner in the works" phrase?

In my opinion it make no sence to delay the delivery (even of all 4000 units) because of a software error. Especially if it's only that WiFi works with 30 kb/s which is of course not the best rate but more than enough for surfing.

You realise that 30kbps would be slower than a 56kbps modem, right?

I am wondering about this wifi thing. IIRC, there were tests that proved that the hardware was done properly and works, right? So, the wifi problem should be software only. I have faith that as long as it is a software only issue, that the community will be able to fix it, even if it takes a while.

That's what was said, but tests are like benchmarks. They don't tell the compelte story. We might not even know if a pure software fix IS possible until one has been produced. Life is like that, sometimes, and all they can do is take their best (educated) guess.

The problem is, you can never be 100% sure if it's hardware or not when you don't have the software properly working yet. As we don't want to lie to you, we surely cannot promise

As glad as I am to hear someone from OP say that (as it's been true and pointed out long ago) I feel for you. This must be a gut-wrenching moment. Good luck, and peace

I'm confused though, based on the above, why would anyone turn down an early model with sub standard wifi?

As the mos tpolite post to raise this concern, let me have a stab at a couple of possibilities by way of theoretical answer.

1. Perhaps the battery run time will be deminished with a USB stick, rendering Pandora-with-a-stick less useful to some customers who specifically intend to use WiFi with it rather a lot.

2. Perhaps it will block the USB port that some customers intended to be using much of the time (I don't know what for - Accelerometer? Camera? Mouse? Full sized keyboard? Hard Drive/SSD? The list of theoretical possibilities goes on and on) meaning they will have to use a USB hub, adding to what needs to be carried around.

I guess it's nice to give the customers an option but what would you gain from waiting?

Presumably the option to cancel if it turns out that the thing never gets fixed. A related but opposite question - what does a customer gain from getting a Pandora + WiFi dongle if a Pandora + Wifi dongle does not meet their needs? Note that my 2 quick answers, above, probably miss a lot of things I haven't even considered. Doubtless for some it just won't be "good enough". Being able to stall and not go for a flawed unit NOW gives people a chance to hope OP (or their other customers) will perfect it rather than rush for the "cancel" button. No-one WANTS to cancel, so waiting is, perhaps, better.

ED - good offer, good solution/workaround. Good customer service.

 

[Caine]

In fact, I'd be inclined to ship all 4000 this way - get that batch out the door and in hands.

That would be madness. If it does turn out to be a hardware failure they would end up paying for every Pandora board twice.
The first 1000 boards are already finished, in case of a hardware failure they will need to be replaced anyway.

The current approach of putting the remaining boards on hold and ship out those boards that are already made is much safer.
Some of those first 1000 can help in debugging the drivers.

 

[Spirit]

Fuck that, I will PAY for my dongle, but thank you very much for the offer.

 

[aliking]

The fact that they are even talking this way is a good indication that they consider it a strong possibility that this requires a hardware fix.

The way I'm reading this, they have halted production on the boards until they are sure, and are only talking about dongling and sending out the 1000ish that have already been produced. They are not going to build the other ~3000 if they feel like there is a risk of having to replace them.

This sucks for OP. It may well be the best solution to get a number of them out, but please let's not talk like they should just send them all out or like accepting a potentially crippled unit and then waiting until after the 2nd batch to have it replaced is the obvious choice.

 

[borgqueenx]

The fact that they are even talking this way is a good indication that they consider it a strong possibility that this requires a hardware fix.

The way I'm reading this, they have halted production on the boards until they are sure, and are only talking about dongling and sending out the 1000ish that have already been produced. They are not going to build the other ~3000 if they feel like there is a risk of having to replace them.

This sucks for OP. It may well be the best solution to get a number of them out, but please let's not talk like they should just send them all out or like accepting a potentially crippled unit and then waiting until after the 2nd batch to have it replaced is the obvious choice.

Leave people a choice?

 

[crade]

Sounds like we could end up with more than 2 batches

 

[conso]

the SDIO Problems under Linux are long time known.

what problems?

Goddammit, Notaz, I really love you for working on the kernel and that awesome picodrive on my dingoo, but either give a detailed opinion or shut up. You are one of the 2-3 persons who could really describe the situation correctly and believable, instead you are teasing us.

I'm probably in the first 1000, not sure. Guess has more important things to do than answering me that. With my luck, I'll be 1001.
Would certainly take a pandora with a tiny wifi-dongle on my own risk.
What really worries me is Craig's "We won't release the last 3000 until the problem is solved." That may take f*cking long.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

You guys just wrecked my speculation detection machine...