I can understand how some people are going to say that the Pandora is expensive. It is. We are paying a premium for being part of a project with a scope of 4000 units. To compare with Sony is just ridiculous. I would be seriously surprised if they ever made a product in less than 4000000 units.
Instant Pandora with a premium?
- Thread starter craigix
- Start date
Sugar_Kane
Could crush a grape
What would have happened if initial projections were right and we were all now sat here with our units, would OPT no longer exist?
Can't batch three just have a higher price tag and start taking orders now?
Can't batch three just have a higher price tag and start taking orders now?
Is this for real or merely a joke? I hope a joke, because if criticism is so hard to handle, it really shouldn't be invited?
I too would cancel (well I did already try in December as I was short for Christmas, but my emails never got a reply) if this becomes a reality. I have waited far too long already, if I suspect that OPL think they can keep me waiting further, whilst they sell my unit to someone else for a higher margin, then the camels back will truly be broken.
Please at least just finish fulfilling the first batch orders, then charge whatever you want.
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One thing was not mentioned: when these 7 day orders would be available? I think it may take about month (or two months ) or so to actually do it without messing with batch1 parts, because more cases will be needed (afaik even not all batch1 cases currently at UK), some additional parts and etc will also be needed. By that time I think almost all batch1 will be out.
Sugar_Kane
Could crush a grape
I think it is imperative that batch 1 is dealt with before anything else
graupelschauer
Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2010
- Messages
- 131
So after reading 5 pages, if have to say that I will not pay anything more. I ordered at the time where I had to pay more than the early first-batchers and this was expensive enough for me. And hey: I already pressed a "buy a pandora" button 2 years ago, why should I do this again?
But I am really interested in how you will manage this craig? Based on the last comments 90% of the community would buy the more expensive unit and you think you can hire 2-3 guys (which cost money, too) to build 90% of the units in just 7 days? I mean seriously: 7 days?? You missed every deadline for about 2 years even if you thought you were close to release, what will you do if you cannot accomplish this task? Would you hire another 2-3 workers, decreasing the profit? Would you excuse another time for the delay?
So I will not give you extra money but I am not going to cancel my order, too. and I'll really be pissed if I move to the end of the whole queue because everyone is willing to spend some extra cash!
But I am really interested in how you will manage this craig? Based on the last comments 90% of the community would buy the more expensive unit and you think you can hire 2-3 guys (which cost money, too) to build 90% of the units in just 7 days? I mean seriously: 7 days?? You missed every deadline for about 2 years even if you thought you were close to release, what will you do if you cannot accomplish this task? Would you hire another 2-3 workers, decreasing the profit? Would you excuse another time for the delay?
So I will not give you extra money but I am not going to cancel my order, too. and I'll really be pissed if I move to the end of the whole queue because everyone is willing to spend some extra cash!
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I have to agree.
I'm a long time batch 1 pre-order customer and I was in a fairly good frame of mind about the whole project until I read craigix's suggestion. The thought of having people jump the queue for extra cash after I've waited 2+ years and paid in full is quite disheartening. Can Craig guarantee that this won't result in batch 1 customers being delayed? Will there be a cap on the number of queue jumper pandoras going out the door? It all sounds a bit risky to me and all signs where pointing to batch 1 being done in about 2 months anyway under the current setup.
Just my 2cents.
ODINsRaven
Still Fresh
@Craig, I understand that the "all black unit" will be rare in the long run. I'm a Batch 2 order and I would gladly pay $180-$200 more for a "limited edition" upgrade in the darker-red color suggested previously in the thread. More money for OP is more money for OP, right?
(Seriously, Eridger, nice color idea!)
Please consider an "upgrade" on orders that have not shipped yet. Ideally something different than what will be offered to the new orders for $500.
Just a quick thought- so if I canceled my current order (mid-late Batch 2) and placed another order for the $500 7-day Pandora, I would receive my unit substantially faster? That seems like quite a hassle for all parties :unsure:
(Seriously, Eridger, nice color idea!)
Please consider an "upgrade" on orders that have not shipped yet. Ideally something different than what will be offered to the new orders for $500.
Just a quick thought- so if I canceled my current order (mid-late Batch 2) and placed another order for the $500 7-day Pandora, I would receive my unit substantially faster? That seems like quite a hassle for all parties :unsure:
As a second batcher (September 2010), here's some thoughts:
1) there's no objection to putting up the price for anyone who hasn't ordered a device yet beyond the question of whether it deters people from getting a Pandora; that's a business decision for OPT in the end.
2) I can fully understand the point that THB and others are making – if you're a batch 1er who's been waiting since '08, it's gonna sting if new people or Batch 2ers swan in years later and pick up a device before you. Even if they're better off because i) the latecomers have paid more and so ii) the original queue might be able to go faster as a result of people paying extra now, it's still going to feel pretty unfair and that might well be enough to put some people here off enough for them to disengage.
3) The fact that there still *is* a Pandora community after all the delays and setbacks is testament to the quality, potential and (current) uniqueness of the device, but even those things can be pushed only so far, so – if you're changing the rules in this way that affects everyone who hasn't got their device, it's got to be done in an open and transparent way that keeps as many people as possible onside. You'd have to demonstrate to people that the existing queue was moving faster due to the existence of the $500 queue, basically; this could be as simple as guaranteeing a %rate of production for the existing queue, making the rest available to the $500 queue, and then putting out weekly production stats ('this week we made and shipped x Pandoras, of which y went to the $500 queue'). Others may have better suggestions - BZar's post #16 is a good one – but if you don't do this upfront the Benji_Steins of this world will have a field day.
4) don't offer people the chance to get Pandoras in 7 days, unless you can actually give them their devices in 7 days – by which I mean that you actually have all the parts piled up and ready to go. I know things have got a lot better on the production front since you were offering Batch 2 as the only way to guarantee delivery by Christmas , but still… even if you're as confident as you possibly can be that you can get them all done in 7 days, why not say 14 and give yourselves room to deal with some slippage?
5) I'd pay the extra money to get mine in 7 days rather than in Two Months - you'll probably get that from most Batch Twoers who can afford it. You'll need to have a system that allows people to do this (making a new order in the $500 queue then cancelling the old one is a bit of a hassle).
To sum up – I'm really happy with the idea of the $500 queue (and I'd like to join it!) if it means people in the $330 queue get theirs faster, and you take the time and trouble to show everyone how it's doing so, and everything else is in place (parts, logistics, stock control, whatever) to back up whatever promises you make.
1) there's no objection to putting up the price for anyone who hasn't ordered a device yet beyond the question of whether it deters people from getting a Pandora; that's a business decision for OPT in the end.
2) I can fully understand the point that THB and others are making – if you're a batch 1er who's been waiting since '08, it's gonna sting if new people or Batch 2ers swan in years later and pick up a device before you. Even if they're better off because i) the latecomers have paid more and so ii) the original queue might be able to go faster as a result of people paying extra now, it's still going to feel pretty unfair and that might well be enough to put some people here off enough for them to disengage.
3) The fact that there still *is* a Pandora community after all the delays and setbacks is testament to the quality, potential and (current) uniqueness of the device, but even those things can be pushed only so far, so – if you're changing the rules in this way that affects everyone who hasn't got their device, it's got to be done in an open and transparent way that keeps as many people as possible onside. You'd have to demonstrate to people that the existing queue was moving faster due to the existence of the $500 queue, basically; this could be as simple as guaranteeing a %rate of production for the existing queue, making the rest available to the $500 queue, and then putting out weekly production stats ('this week we made and shipped x Pandoras, of which y went to the $500 queue'). Others may have better suggestions - BZar's post #16 is a good one – but if you don't do this upfront the Benji_Steins of this world will have a field day.
4) don't offer people the chance to get Pandoras in 7 days, unless you can actually give them their devices in 7 days – by which I mean that you actually have all the parts piled up and ready to go. I know things have got a lot better on the production front since you were offering Batch 2 as the only way to guarantee delivery by Christmas
, but still… even if you're as confident as you possibly can be that you can get them all done in 7 days, why not say 14 and give yourselves room to deal with some slippage?5) I'd pay the extra money to get mine in 7 days rather than in Two Months - you'll probably get that from most Batch Twoers who can afford it. You'll need to have a system that allows people to do this (making a new order in the $500 queue then cancelling the old one is a bit of a hassle).
To sum up – I'm really happy with the idea of the $500 queue (and I'd like to join it!) if it means people in the $330 queue get theirs faster, and you take the time and trouble to show everyone how it's doing so, and everything else is in place (parts, logistics, stock control, whatever) to back up whatever promises you make.
metallurge
Still Fresh
Late 2009 first-batcher here. Lessee, my opinions...
Charge what you think the market will bear. You finally have about all the production kinks worked out. You have the right to reap a handsome profit from your labors. I do personally think that a $500 Pandora would be off my shopping list. I'd look to a N900 or small ARM tablet + iCP/BT KB. Or maybe build my own gadget from a Pandaboard (Cortex A9 Beagleboard).
But honestly, unless you have a dual-core/quad-core Pandora II design already at least in the planning stages, you're in trouble-you won't sell any Pandora I's in 2012, IMHO. In other words, your window of opportunity for selling a 600 Mhz Cortex A8 device is closing. Your device is a little special because of the neato nubs & gaming possibilities, but that's not primarily why I bought my Pandora. I bought my Pandora because it has good engineering & good design specs (for the time it was designed). It looks like a nice little Linux general-purpose computer to me. But the market is about to be flooded with nice little Linux general-purpose computers in tablet form. All that said, I am willing to pay for traditional Linux, not Google's Tivoized Linux. And most of those tablets are gonna be Android.
OTOH, I may well not be representative of your target audience.
I'm gonna wait out the month or two and get my black Pandora. You can do what you like with your additional supply of components, so long as it does not hinder your delivering me my product in a timely fashion. If I didn't trust you guys to deliver, I wouldn't have ordered in the first place. If you can sell 'em for $500 and make a decent profit, I'd encourage you to do so, and waste as little time as possible in doing so.
Charge what you think the market will bear. You finally have about all the production kinks worked out. You have the right to reap a handsome profit from your labors. I do personally think that a $500 Pandora would be off my shopping list. I'd look to a N900 or small ARM tablet + iCP/BT KB. Or maybe build my own gadget from a Pandaboard (Cortex A9 Beagleboard).
But honestly, unless you have a dual-core/quad-core Pandora II design already at least in the planning stages, you're in trouble-you won't sell any Pandora I's in 2012, IMHO. In other words, your window of opportunity for selling a 600 Mhz Cortex A8 device is closing. Your device is a little special because of the neato nubs & gaming possibilities, but that's not primarily why I bought my Pandora. I bought my Pandora because it has good engineering & good design specs (for the time it was designed). It looks like a nice little Linux general-purpose computer to me. But the market is about to be flooded with nice little Linux general-purpose computers in tablet form. All that said, I am willing to pay for traditional Linux, not Google's Tivoized Linux. And most of those tablets are gonna be Android.
OTOH, I may well not be representative of your target audience.
I'm gonna wait out the month or two and get my black Pandora. You can do what you like with your additional supply of components, so long as it does not hinder your delivering me my product in a timely fashion. If I didn't trust you guys to deliver, I wouldn't have ordered in the first place. If you can sell 'em for $500 and make a decent profit, I'd encourage you to do so, and waste as little time as possible in doing so.
Assaf Raman
Still Fresh
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
- Messages
- 2
All the negative guys, you seem to miss the point, you only think about your spot in the queue, you don't understand that if the project doesn't take a step to raise more money - you are never going to get your device - making your place in the queue irreverent.
craigix is suggesting a way out so everybody will get the devices, moreover - from what he writes - if you don't pay extra - people will be ahead of you in the queue but you will still get your devices in the same price and get them faster then he can deliver now.
This is a win win, who cares about the queue - the important part is that you are going to get them, get them faster, and you don't "have" to pay more.
craigix is suggesting a way out so everybody will get the devices, moreover - from what he writes - if you don't pay extra - people will be ahead of you in the queue but you will still get your devices in the same price and get them faster then he can deliver now.
This is a win win, who cares about the queue - the important part is that you are going to get them, get them faster, and you don't "have" to pay more.
My order's in batch 2. I understand the need for a price increase to keep the company viable, and consider this to be very important in the long term. Therefore, batch 2 pre-orders should be immediately ceased (if not already done) and a higher price should be set for batch 3. A customer ordering in batch 3 could opt to pay extra again to receive the unit sooner.
However, I think that demand peaks would be smoothed more easily if the offer was not "get it within 7 days". Could you consider "shipped within 10 working days", for example? Also, beware of shipping much sooner than offered. Until you're able to see the effect of the proposal on batch 1/2 orders (with the possible reassurance that the scheme does accelerate production for the rest of us, as calculated) I don't think a lot of newbie's cheerfully posting "I ordered on Monday and my Pandora arrived before the weekend" would be helpful for the community. You'd take an awful lot of flak and would have to waste time responding to it.
This scheme would also carry an administrative overhead, which would mean you may have less time for building/testing - unless one of the hired people is willing and capable of fitting this in too. And what components have the slowest ordering/delivery turnaround? These are obviously on the critical path and a shortage could affect the building of batch 1 and 2 preorders.
Finally, I think the colour difference is a bit of a distraction and may introduce quality issues. The Instant Pandoras shouldn't claim to be something they're not, i.e. they'd simply be delivered more quickly but would otherwise be exactly the same. A special edition version could be investigated separately but there could be problems in rushing ahead with such a scheme. A reference on the sticker to differentiate between batches/Instants is all that is needed IMHO.
However, I think that demand peaks would be smoothed more easily if the offer was not "get it within 7 days". Could you consider "shipped within 10 working days", for example? Also, beware of shipping much sooner than offered. Until you're able to see the effect of the proposal on batch 1/2 orders (with the possible reassurance that the scheme does accelerate production for the rest of us, as calculated) I don't think a lot of newbie's cheerfully posting "I ordered on Monday and my Pandora arrived before the weekend" would be helpful for the community. You'd take an awful lot of flak and would have to waste time responding to it.
This scheme would also carry an administrative overhead, which would mean you may have less time for building/testing - unless one of the hired people is willing and capable of fitting this in too. And what components have the slowest ordering/delivery turnaround? These are obviously on the critical path and a shortage could affect the building of batch 1 and 2 preorders.
Finally, I think the colour difference is a bit of a distraction and may introduce quality issues. The Instant Pandoras shouldn't claim to be something they're not, i.e. they'd simply be delivered more quickly but would otherwise be exactly the same. A special edition version could be investigated separately but there could be problems in rushing ahead with such a scheme. A reference on the sticker to differentiate between batches/Instants is all that is needed IMHO.
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BaDToaD
"Very" Old Timer
How about you:
. Limit the amount of buy it now pandora's to say between 20 and 50 a week, which increases your cashflow and allows batch one and two production to ramp up
. Offer those in batch one and possibly batch two the option to fast track their order for $100 again increasing your cashflow
Just my two penneth.
. Limit the amount of buy it now pandora's to say between 20 and 50 a week, which increases your cashflow and allows batch one and two production to ramp up
. Offer those in batch one and possibly batch two the option to fast track their order for $100 again increasing your cashflow
Just my two penneth.
craigix
Mega GP Mania
If we do this you will get your batch1 unit *faster* than if we didn't because we can build more extra units per day than we will sell via the $500 price.
This will clear batch1 far faster than any other method and get us in to batch2 as soon as possible.
It is an attempt to get all the batch1 units out there, it's not, as is being somehow perceived an attempt to slow it down.
We're, as I've already said, trying to ramp up production as fast as we can now things are flowing.
This will clear batch1 far faster than any other method and get us in to batch2 as soon as possible.
It is an attempt to get all the batch1 units out there, it's not, as is being somehow perceived an attempt to slow it down.
We're, as I've already said, trying to ramp up production as fast as we can now things are flowing.
MarioPandio
Well-Known Member
Edit: Totally h34r: by Craig. Just ignore TLR
As a Pandora owner already I shouldnt really comment but I agree with your need to do this and fast. Faster production and enough profit to continue the business into batch 3 and beyond and Pandora 2 one day. Not going bust as an alternative. If I am understanding you right (like I think Zucadragon below is) then bar seeming to jar a few people who've patiently waited, they will infact get their unit far faster this way and a company afloat enough to still support it.
Wise to stop pre-orders and a price hike is understandable. It takes it out of my realm for a second unit for now but its not that the Pandora isnt worth it, it is! The build of the cases will need an improvement from those intended tweaks to the molds for later batches though, as others have said you'll now get build quality comparisons with the major corps. Even though their form factors/feature set are lacking.
Is zucadragon roughly right here? As it sounds like you plan to use components destined for batch2 for these ebay units. So batch 1 will simply speed up as a result and by the time batch 2 was due, new components will be available to make up for those borrowed ahead of time?
This sounds like an overall change of any future Pandoras is occurring/planned, such that batch1 (perhaps 2 aswell) is the original 'new black' and that ebay units and all future Pandora batches have something else in store (electrosparked finish, all those fancy colour options or something)? Am I reading you right?
h34r: by Craig. Just ignore TLRAs a Pandora owner already I shouldnt really comment but I agree with your need to do this and fast. Faster production and enough profit to continue the business into batch 3 and beyond and Pandora 2 one day. Not going bust as an alternative. If I am understanding you right (like I think Zucadragon below is) then bar seeming to jar a few people who've patiently waited, they will infact get their unit far faster this way and a company afloat enough to still support it.
Wise to stop pre-orders and a price hike is understandable. It takes it out of my realm for a second unit for now but its not that the Pandora isnt worth it, it is! The build of the cases will need an improvement from those intended tweaks to the molds for later batches though, as others have said you'll now get build quality comparisons with the major corps. Even though their form factors/feature set are lacking.
Is zucadragon roughly right here? As it sounds like you plan to use components destined for batch2 for these ebay units. So batch 1 will simply speed up as a result and by the time batch 2 was due, new components will be available to make up for those borrowed ahead of time?
The intention of making something different about them was to make your 'First batch' unit more unique, not the other way around!
In the long run the 'all black' unit will be far more rare.
This sounds like an overall change of any future Pandoras is occurring/planned, such that batch1 (perhaps 2 aswell) is the original 'new black' and that ebay units and all future Pandora batches have something else in store (electrosparked finish, all those fancy colour options or something)? Am I reading you right?
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Can you set a figure on how much you actually need ( cash wise ) to hire these staff and have them crank out the Pandoras?
I'm sure we could get a donation drive going. After all, that would surely get us our Pandora's even faster! ( logically assuming that if you get lovely free money somehow, if it's even legal or possible, then you could churn out Pandoras twice as fast without selling more )
And we could be all happy in the knowledge that we contributed to a good cause... and the really early pre-orderers who got away with paying £200 (lucky sods) could make amends. (okay, you guys set the price, they paid it, and they technically owe you nothing, but it would be a nice gesture)
Perhaps you could pledge to give the raised money back to the community via a developer fund once the Pandora is profitable? It's a win-win-win scenario.
1) You get the money you need
2) We get our Pandoras
3) Developers get incentivised
4) We get good software for our Pandoras
Edit: I don't know how much your guys get paid, but I'm thinking it's not going to be a small number.
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If this is to happen, I would be interested to see how this will work with current pre-orders.
I personally don't think this is something that I will necessarily benefit from as I am a relatively early Batch 1 orderer, but if I had pre-ordered from the end of Batch 1 or early Batch 2, would I be able to pay extra for 7 day delivery?
Also as has already been asked, if these units will be avaialble in a different colour, would this be an extra layer of paint on the already painted cases?
Would this cause similar problems to the early ones that had painted shoulder & ABXY buttons?
Are the cases that would be painted already in the UK/in transit on slow boat from China/ still at the case factory?
I personally don't think this is something that I will necessarily benefit from as I am a relatively early Batch 1 orderer, but if I had pre-ordered from the end of Batch 1 or early Batch 2, would I be able to pay extra for 7 day delivery?
Also as has already been asked, if these units will be avaialble in a different colour, would this be an extra layer of paint on the already painted cases?
Would this cause similar problems to the early ones that had painted shoulder & ABXY buttons?
Are the cases that would be painted already in the UK/in transit on slow boat from China/ still at the case factory?
tsh
Active Member
That is a very odd reaction to a plan which is intended to result in MORE pandoras in the world. The reality is that your pre-order has got you a place a below a sensible retail price, and you probably ought to be grateful for that. Sure, you might not buy one now at a higher price, but the reality is that noone will soon be able to buy a new Pandora for the original $330. If OP carry on selling them at this price, they won't build more than they have currently taken orders for, and will end up having lost money (is how I read the situation).
People CAN pay $500, not sure how many will in the short term, and sure, the price can change in the future. This has NO real impact on delivery schedules - there surely arn't more than a few hundred people who will order in the next MONTH.
Lots of people getting very childish here because they don't seem to realise that they have been lucky that the project has made it this far.
