iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.

[WizardStan]

By "keyboard" you mean a rubber mat, right?

Because if so I would totally take one of those in lieu of a refund. I'd find something to do with it.

 

[Ian J]

I'm shocked that the kickstarter made $59,000 above it's goal and that wasn't enough extra cash to complete the project.

 

[Klumpen]

I'm shocked that the kickstarter made $59,000 above it's goal and that wasn't enough extra cash to complete the project.

It's never enough for Craig.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3Gso8y0omkI?feature=oembed

Money makes the world go 'round


I'm sure you know the rules


people say you know the way


to change lead into gold


greed will take you higher than the sky


-


What you need to feed your greed


is more than credit cards


lookin' back in history


it seems there's nothing new


always wanted more to trap your soul


-


Everybody knows you're just a busy man


everything you got is not enough for you


never enough


-


For the love of money


your greed is all in vain


For the love of money


it's driving you insane


-


The more you get, the less you give


you keep it for yourself


hurry up you got no time


you gotta earn some more


everyday your money seems to grow


-


And still you're driven by success


you like to have it all


get the thing you always want


no matter what it takes


you would sacrifice your flesh and blood


-


Everybody knows you're just a busy man


everything you got is not enough for you


never enough


-


For the love of money


your greed is all in vain


For the love of money


it's driving you insane!

 

[b_o_b]

I agree, it is really incredible that a project that I am pretty sure is less complicated than creation of Pandora and with some good team members / Link + MWeston turned out this way.

Even Craig should have done better.. the only way I can explain it is a real serious personal problem or fraud.

 

[hailrazer]

I'm shocked that the kickstarter made $59,000 above it's goal and that wasn't enough extra cash to complete the project.

That's not exactly how it works.

If you're dong a Kickstarter Product it doesn't matter much if you make more than your goal.  If your Rewards are mainly the product itself, then the more you make the more you are spending.

Say a $200 Reward is for one of the first products made. Estimated costs to make / ship / and pay people to assemble the product is $180.

You are shooting for 100 people , and you make it. You get $20,000. But you have to spend $18,000 on the product. You make $2,000.

Now say you get 150 people pledging. You get $30,000 but you have to spend $27,000. You make $3,000.

So making an extra $10,000 or 150% of your goal only made you an extra $1000 

People seem to forget that a lot of Kickstarter campaigns don't make a lot of money. 

But when you are cutting margins close, you darned well better have a good group of people to make sure you can make the product for under the cost estimates. Seems like that was what was missing here.

 

[_wb_]

Most of the costs are one-time things though like design. getting the first full prototype to work, producing molds, firmware, etc. After that, the marginal cost per unit (parts, materials, assembly) should be a lot less than the selling price.

 

[crow_riot]

Maybe I've overread it, but who in the end gave up? Was this a team decision or just craig?

 

[Nagelfar]

As there is no "team" per se (ED is not directly involved and just keeps the contact with the german company, Michael W. was "just" the hardware guy and his part is I'd say 95% done, Link just helped with setting up a company...) I'd say it's 100% craig.

 

[ckblackm]

As there is no "team" per se (ED is not directly involved and just keeps the contact with the german company, Michael W. was "just" the hardware guy and his part is I'd say 95% done, Link just helped with setting up a company...) I'd say it's 100% craig.

I agree there's no team... but that last update didn't sound like Craig, imho.

 

[EvilDragon]

I'm shocked that the kickstarter made $59,000 above it's goal and that wasn't enough extra cash to complete the project.

 That's not exactly how it works.

If you're dong a Kickstarter Product it doesn't matter much if you make more than your goal.  If your Rewards are mainly the product itself, then the more you make the more you are spending.

Not at all.

Let's say the plan was to produce 2000 iCP2s. The calculation was that 150K USD would be needed for those.

I've no idea what his quotations for the mould, etc. was, but let's assume the mould was 60K USD.

Once the mould is done, one case costs about 4 USD.

For 2000 iCP2, you'd need 60K USD for the mould and 2000x 4 USD for the cases, so a total of 68K USD. The case for one iCP2 would cost 34 USD.

For 1000 iCP, the cost would be 60K USD for the mould and 1000x 4 USD for the cases, so a total of 64K USD. the case for one iCP2 would cost 64 USD.

That's the case, but it's the same for the PCB.

So getting 50K USD more for the Kickstarter campaign would mean the costs per iCP2 would be a lot less, so the profit is higher.

Within these 150K USD from Kickstarter, there should be at least 20 - 30K USD just for safety in case something goes wrong (at least, that's what I would do).

In fact, the real production price per Pandora is lower than the one I calculate with - just to be sure there's always money in case something goes wrong (like with the LCDs).

We have no idea how Craig calculated, but with 50K USD more than originally needed, he should have quite a high safety margin here.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

^ That's why you've survived so far and he's dead! 

 

[Klumpen]

I'm shocked that the kickstarter made $59,000 above it's goal and that wasn't enough extra cash to complete the project.

 
That's not exactly how it works.


If you're dong a Kickstarter Product it doesn't matter much if you make more than your goal.  If your Rewards are mainly the product itself, then the more you make the more you are spending.

Not at all.
Let's say the plan was to produce 2000 iCP2s. The calculation was that 150K USD would be needed for those.


I've no idea what his quotations for the mould, etc. was, but let's assume the mould was 60K USD.


Once the mould is done, one case costs about 4 USD.


For 2000 iCP2, you'd need 60K USD for the mould and 2000x 4 USD for the cases, so a total of 68K USD. The case for one iCP2 would cost 34 USD.


For 1000 iCP, the cost would be 60K USD for the mould and 1000x 4 USD for the cases, so a total of 64K USD. the case for one iCP2 would cost 64 USD.


That's the case, but it's the same for the PCB.


So getting 50K USD more for the Kickstarter campaign would mean the costs per iCP2 would be a lot less, so the profit is higher.


Within these 150K USD from Kickstarter, there should be at least 20 - 30K USD just for safety in case something goes wrong (at least, that's what I would do).


In fact, the real production price per Pandora is lower than the one I calculate with - just to be sure there's always money in case something goes wrong (like with the LCDs).


We have no idea how Craig calculated, but with 50K USD more than originally needed, he should have quite a high safety margin here.

+ he seems to have kept the money for the case, keyboard, etc. for himself,

so hailrazers calculation seems a bit odd to me anyway.

 

[ramboky]

I really would like to listen other [Craig's] side of this, and not to judge "just because".  

Everything said by the others on the project points to Craig failing to do the majority of the tasks that he was responsible for, then lying to everyone to cover his ass. As Craig is refusing to come forward and answer any questions, just as he has done all throughout this project, it's a pretty fair assumption he's the one at fault. The fact he's done this all before with the Pandora and is still lying about what actually happened makes it a certainty as far as I'm concerned. You won't get any answers from Craig, he's either too much of a coward or he doesn't care. Probably both.

Anyone who backed Craig after his well-documented Pandora disaster deserved all they got, in my opinion. A fool and his money, and all that...


D.

I, like a lot of people, had never heard of Pandora or Craig's past when we backed the ICP2. And it certainly didn't help that so many people here were still defending him right up until the last couple of months. But thank you for your uninformed opinion.

 

[comradekingu]

So the question im asking myself is who is legally responsible for the claims that are made towards what a product is and what it can deliver?

Craig, link, nobody?

If links company is _only_ responsible for funneling money to the right hands, must be the one making the plans, no?

TL;DR I dont know about legal issues or the specific details, just want to know who is responsible, if any.

 

[ckblackm]

The company formed was a LLC (Limited Liability Company) that was wound down after the funds were dispersed... so legally... probably no one.  (YMMV, IANAL)

 

[Ian J]

So what happens now?

Does anyone have to show where the money was spent?

Can Product 3 LLC just walk away with any of the remaining money without showing a balance sheet?

Who at the end of the day is policing the guys behind each kickstarter project, or is it all down to trusting people will deliver what they promise.

 

[Ian J]

If the money was transferred to ED from Craig's own bank account or the GBAX/Pandora UK account can ED keep the money for the 1GHZ Pandoras supplied to Craig but not paid for?

 

[vcoleiro1]

Frankly, I think Craig just lost interest. Fairly soon after the KS ended, it was clear to me that at some point he just stopped driving the project.  Not sure if this correlates to him getting a job.  It's almost as if he saw no real profit in it , got a job anyway and decided it wasn't worth the hastle.

 

[DrCJBoduma]

Frankly, I think Craig just lost interest. Fairly soon after the KS ended, it was clear to me that at some point he just stopped driving the project.  Not sure if this correlates to him getting a job.  It's almost as if he saw no real profit in it , got a job anyway and decided it wasn't worth the hastle.

This video feels a bit odd to watch with hindsight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnCg-VBntis  

(nice first comment though)  :-D

But I think you are right, Craig likes the thrill and excitement of setting things up and being a 'fly by the seat of your pants' pioneer type.  Once this feeling wears off, he gets bored and things start to fall apart.

CJ

 

[ZXDunny]

Anyone who backed Craig after his well-documented Pandora disaster deserved all they got, in my opinion. A fool and his money, and all that...

I, like a lot of people, had never heard of Pandora or Craig's past when we backed the ICP2. And it certainly didn't help that so many people here were still defending him right up until the last couple of months. But thank you for your uninformed opinion.

My opinion is informed sufficiently to prevent me from making the mistake you did. Seeing that you didn't perform any actual research into the person you were throwing money at, I can categorically state that you are indeed a fool.

D.