And that's why people should be careful who to advertise and defend!
Craigs defenders made a great deal of his frauds possible and they seem to be the biggest fools to me (if they got paid, their just mean).
iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.
- Thread starter ckblackm
- Start date
Craigs defenders made a great deal of his frauds possible and they seem to be the biggest fools to me (if they got paid, their just mean).
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
Oh, he delivers all right. He didn't wait a second to order a nice 3D printer for himself, take care of his car and whatever we won't ever know happened to the money he got.
Craig's business model is based on creating hype, announcing imagination instead of fact, declaring problems solved before he even knows how to start tackling them, considering perception more important than reality, and worrying more about getting money out of people's pockets than about delivering what they paid for.
ED's business model is exactly the opposite: only make an announcement when the time is ripe, stick to the facts, being honest (even if that means admitting things that went badly), and worrying more about delivering than about getting money out of people's pockets.
I think the above is very clear now, and it's also very clear which business model will survive and thrive.
ED's business model is exactly the opposite: only make an announcement when the time is ripe, stick to the facts, being honest (even if that means admitting things that went badly), and worrying more about delivering than about getting money out of people's pockets.
I think the above is very clear now, and it's also very clear which business model will survive and thrive.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
I didn't order an iCP2, but I don't think the people who did were foolish at all. Just because Pandora had a lot of problems didn't mean iCP2 was going to be an automatic failure, and research and analysis of the situation didn't make it look that unreasonable. If a fair project management style risk assessment was made it'd look very different. Think about it:
a) iCP2 was much simpler than Pandora, especially from a software perspective
B) A LOT of problems that happened to Pandora wouldn't have applied to iCP2. KS funding prevented the many funding problems Pandora had. They were going with proven (as in, people he had experience with) and relatively local manufacturers, so no problems with vendors like CC or the headaches communicating with the Chinese case manufacturers. The nubs were already developed and there were no LED cables to worry about. Hardware-wise, there was nothing on the board that was new to them if you don't count the lighting.
c) They'd already done a device that wasn't that much different
d) The stuff shown in the video at least looked more mature than Pandora was when preorders were first made
e) Pandoras were actually eventually delivered to a majority of the preorderers, if quite late - some would want to back iCP2 even if it was very late, there's nothing intrinsically foolish about that if they're okay with it
f) Much of what we know now about Craig's questionable practices were not as widely discussed then
g) None of the LED nonsense started until after the funding was completed
The only huge red flag at the time of the KS was the ridiculous estimated completion time. Honestly I'm pretty surprised, you could even say impressed at how badly this failed. I would certainly find it foolish to back anything Craig does now since he's shown how much he can screw up what would appear to be a pretty straightforward project.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
I beg your pardon Exo, you forgot the 1Ghz preorder mess from Mr C, which was widely discussed way before the ICP2 started. There were already strong suspicions he was seriously fooling people around.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
I said much of what we know wasn't as widely discussed then, not that none of it was...
It's quite mind-boggling how Craig arrogantly ridiculed the Ouya project (saying they will fail) and how he felt the need to make a video about how to do a successful KS even before his only KS project succeeded (which, as it turns out, it never did).
The irony is strong here.
The irony is strong here.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
OK, but that was clearly a red flag in my book to not trust this guy at all. And I still remember clearly mentioning that point to a number of blinded-by-love Craig supporters of the day.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
Yeah. But that's not surprising if you consider the likelihood that Craig may be a pyschopath. Look at the wikipedia traits of psychopaths:
- Glibness/superficial charm
- Grandiose sense of self-worth
- Pathological lying
- Conning/manipulative
- Lack of remorse or guilt
- Emotionally shallow
- Callous/lack of empathy
- Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
- Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
- Parasitic lifestyle
- Lack of realistic, long-term goals
- Impulsivity
- Irresponsibility
And that's just part of the list. I can tick almost all boxes. It's almost funny if it were not so sad to see how many people followed him.
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Hey, I had no love for Craig. I was critical of a lot of the things he was doing when his approval rating here was still very high, well before the 1GHz mess or even the "upgrade" to skip the queue. And I was sick of the crap he gave me here, I came real close to leaving the forums because of him. But as far as iCP2 went it still looked like a decent and straightforward idea and I did think it'd actually happen, if months after when he said it would. I really don't think this was foolish, even if it was ultimately wrong.
The situation with the 1GHz units was bad, but much of the details were hazy still, and it looked like he was pushed into a financial corner (whether of his own direct making or not) that shouldn't have been the case with iCP2.
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ekianjo
Hardcore Member
The reason why I said this it was a red flag at that time was not linked to whatever happened financially, rather by his attitude:
- never admitting any responsibility
- not answering questions
- going away from the boards for a while with no communication whatsoever
- repeating lies over and over again
- promises that never came true
- treating angry customers like shit
- and so on...
Just from the behavior, I could tell this guy was full of shit. Glad to see I'm proven right, again.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Yes, and in spite of all that I still didn't see why iCP2 was a poor bet. Because even though Craig sucks at dealing with his customers he did probably have an actual desire to see this product through to completion and should have had the means to do so. The biggest problem in the end wasn't his victim mentality or poor consumer relations but his incompetence.
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FaeMinx
Rainbow Liberation Instigation
^
^ To the sociopath/psychopath post - I would say he fits the bill to a T.
...but, also, at the time I was certainly under the impression that the only hope of a possible P2 was to successfully complete the ICP2.
I believed this, even though I didn't trust Craig. But at the time I thought he only had serious personal/psychological problems... but that even so, he still at least *tried*.
It is clear to me *now* that his problems are such that he can't even sustain himself as a long term clever crook. What he did here was grossly short-sighted, which means he is unaware of just how dire his situation is. I would bet that even now, he blames other people for his failures and believes that his spending of funds as he sees fit is *his right*. He has obviously 'devolved' over the years and now his self destruction is unavoidable.
What a complete idiot.
I actually think he must be on drugs to be so dysfunctional (disclaimer: This is my opinion, and just a guess- not a statement of fact).
^ To the sociopath/psychopath post - I would say he fits the bill to a T.
...but, also, at the time I was certainly under the impression that the only hope of a possible P2 was to successfully complete the ICP2.
I believed this, even though I didn't trust Craig. But at the time I thought he only had serious personal/psychological problems... but that even so, he still at least *tried*.
It is clear to me *now* that his problems are such that he can't even sustain himself as a long term clever crook. What he did here was grossly short-sighted, which means he is unaware of just how dire his situation is. I would bet that even now, he blames other people for his failures and believes that his spending of funds as he sees fit is *his right*. He has obviously 'devolved' over the years and now his self destruction is unavoidable.
What a complete idiot.
I actually think he must be on drugs to be so dysfunctional (disclaimer: This is my opinion, and just a guess- not a statement of fact).
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
I agree, but for me, incompetence and behavior usually go together - maybe not 100% of the time but I believe there's a strong correlation.
You'll find that people like ED are calm, composed, respectful of others, transparent, and at the same time are capable of handling projects till the end.
We had every reason to suspect that Craig's delivery date would be missed spectacularly, his promises about video documentation and transparency would be bogus, his promises about letting the community decide about things (in particular, the keyboard layout) would be false, and that he would piss off many of his customers and team members in the process.
We had no reason to suspect that he would eventually just give up and cancel the project altogether.
With hindsight it's always easy to predict the present, but I like to think that there was a chance that the iCP2 would not have become a failure, but rather a successful, yet delayed project.
Anyway, I think we are now entitled to a breakdown of where the money went, what is left, what might be recuperated, and what is lost.
We had no reason to suspect that he would eventually just give up and cancel the project altogether.
With hindsight it's always easy to predict the present, but I like to think that there was a chance that the iCP2 would not have become a failure, but rather a successful, yet delayed project.
Anyway, I think we are now entitled to a breakdown of where the money went, what is left, what might be recuperated, and what is lost.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
The only reason Craig was ever "successful" in the past was because he was relying on people like ED to make up for his mistakes and lack of involvement. Since ED said from day 1 he would have nothing to do with the ICP2 (apart from managing the relationship with GC), it was very clear for me that this was not going to end well.
FaeMinx
Rainbow Liberation Instigation
^
^We'll never see any of that information... because it could land Craig in Jail I'd bet... same as the 'missing' Pandora finances.
Perhaps it's not drugs. Maybe it's just fancy clothes and an expensive irresponsible lifestyle.
^We'll never see any of that information... because it could land Craig in Jail I'd bet... same as the 'missing' Pandora finances.
Perhaps it's not drugs. Maybe it's just fancy clothes and an expensive irresponsible lifestyle.
elwing
Rabbit Addict
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2009
- Messages
- 3,118
Do you realise that the pandora niche and the people who pledged for the ICP2 are just a really tiny proportion of earth population...
it will happens again... luckily this time ED, link and other won't get more bad publicity...
and now he even got a brand new 3D printer to print some nice looking prototype for a new "product 4" or whatever.
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