I Just Wanted To Know...

[Jourdy288]

In game design, are there people who just concept artists? People who just come up with the idea?

 

[lulzfish]

That probably depends on how much idea you can come up with.
If you can come up with a very specific idea that has stuff like file formats and rendering and everything planned out, that would certainly work.

But if the idea is like, "Space RTS where you can trade with people and shoot stuff", then no. I don't think you can get paid for those kinds of ideas.

There's also concept art, where you draw sketches of things that might end up in the game, like levels and characters. I don't know if anybody is "only a concept artist". If you have a huge production team working on a large game, maybe there will be a small team of concept artists.

If you're making a small game with a small team of people, the concept artist will probably be the same person who makes the in-game art, so they'll sketch something and then make the computer model as well.

I'm assuming that since you asked, you have an idea of some sort. How much of an idea is it?

 

[dflemstr]

But if the idea is like, "Space RTS where you can trade with people and shoot stuff", then no. I don't think you can get paid for those kinds of ideas.

Too close for comfort there, buddy...
(The sad thing is that the whole SpaceRTS project isn't going very well, either; we lack a lot of momentum)

Oh, and a game idea doesn't just consist of a game element.
Sure, you can have nice concept art, or music, or a rough idea of how a game will work. You'll never get hired for that, however.
Usually, there are two ways that game ideas are created in the business world (afaik): Either the "indie way", or the "idea factory way".

With the indie way, there simply is someone who comes up with a *brilliant* game concept. Most of the time, this is something simple, like a new game mechanic, or an unexplored "game world" area. This guy instantly starts working on the concept, polishing the rough edges as it goes, adding artwork, refining the game structure. If it turns out that the project seems manageable, the guy will assemble a team and seek investors for the project, and the project will gain momentum. Some end products using this strategy would be for instance World Of Goo or Katamari Damacy: projects that are very innovative and push the frontiers of game design. Many open source projects also work this way (albeit mostly more structured). So, a project following this model always starts with a 'spark' that the rest of the concept can build on; this is mostly a detailed and structured design idea, and almost never artwork or media.

The idea factory way, on the other hand, works kind of the other way around: you start by developing elements of a project: a storyline, main characters, game concepts, concept art, design etc, in a special brainstorming team - an idea factory. This group of people essentially works in a very interactive manner, constantly brainstorming and restructuring. What the result of such a team's work is, is (in lack of a professional term) a design document. So, the idea always is completely finished before work starts on the project, and coders and designers can in theory just directly start coding and designing the game, no questions asked. The kinds of games produced using this model are the big ones; games that are fun to play but almost never are innovative. Examples, well there are too many to count; all of the "AAA" titles basically (HalfLife 2, Warcraft, Sims, whatever).

 

[Iorgy77]

I just want to know with the forum as it is when people are going to start using descriptive thread titles.

 

[Wildstar]

Usually people don't hire people just for ideas because almost everyone can do that. However, in larger projects, there is an organization of teams under a project manager/director. However, everyone is part of the creative process in all aspects and ideas presented are critiqued. However, people are grouped into categories based on skills. There are the creative story writers (story board design), graphic artists (graphcians in demo scene but this category maybe broken into sub-groups in large projects), musicians, sound effects technicians (usually a specialist while the other makes musics and sometimes some do both), the programmers (coders in demo scene) and then there are the actors (including voice actors) in large projects (commercial projects). In non-commercial and small productions, there usually isn't any actors, usually a team of 5-10 people. The smaller teams of maybe 2-3 might have someone that does coding, a person do all the graphics work, and a third do the music and sound effects. While everyone or one of the members maybe handle the story board. Large commercial projects are like and have the sophistication similar to that of modern movie production and can easily have the same size crew involved as a Hit movie and huge financial investment is involved.

Small productions are like Independent/Amateur Film and can easily be made by a rather small team/crew. In small crew, the story board can often be shared by everyone involved or the major ones involved with one person being project leader.

However, creative ideas is somewhat expected from everyone involved in a creative production.

What is said is just another subtle angle from what others have already said.

 

[wardred]

For larger games, just like movies, there are story board artists. But we're talking the multi-million dollar games. Half life, for instance, I'm sure had a TON of story boards done for it. Probably even lesser games have people doing story boards for them, but not nearly as many, and either the artist has other responsibilities on the project, or is doing other projects in addition to the game. A professional story board artist, like a professional photographer, will have a lot of things going at once, from commercials, their own art projects, the game or movie they're working on, etc. If that's what you mean by concept artist.

If you mean more coming up with a concept for a game, then there is a lot less demand for that. If you're the driving force for a small game development house that might work, and they may have a "director" for games, but even with a director, you have to have somebody who can produce the game. A coder, and an artist to work in the framework of the game. The closest thing I could come up for a concept artist would be a writer...for games that have writers.

 

[RoboShmup]

Coming from a computer animation major, if you are considering following a career in the game industry, don't focus just on one single aspect like concert art. Focus on everything. Coding, animating, character modeling, environment modeling, lighting, concept art, storyboarding, even the business aspects. Yes, there are jobs focusing solely on concept, but chances are whoever is hiring is gonna want you to know how to do other things as well. This goes for any job really.

So I'd say it's fine to specialize in concept, but know you're gonna need to know the whole gaming spectrum as well.

And I don't think this should be in the Pandora section, unless you are looking to help a community project with concept.

 

[Wildstar]

RoboShmup and Wardred,

I agree with you both. This could be suited in the Off-Topic area even though it may relate to Pandora in regards for games and stuff being written but until it actually happens, it doesn't belong in the developer section for sure. This is in the general topic area and might suit but it really gains more relevancy if there is some sort of project in mind for Pandora and that the fellow is serious about it.

Don't announce any projects until you actually done something. I learn this mistake hard in the past and not necassarily here. Do some major work up to the point that you can realistically Guestimate the progress to completion if progress continues to move at the same rate. You have to done something to be able to gauge that. NEVER EVER announce a project that you are working on until you actually working on it and have done some major work because your announcements should have some screenshots of the game (be honest) and a realistic guestimate of completion time while keeping it clear that the completion time may change without notice for various reasons that may not be known at this time. We know, things in life don't always go according to plan.

Just a statement of caution for some beginners in the world of software development. It is usually common sense but common sense seems to get rarer these days.

 

[pbostrom]

realistic guestimate of completion time

two months, happeh ?

as for the actual topic, i study as a game programmer but my role during the last projects have been lead designer(and producer) which means i decide what is good and what is crap whenever some1 opens their mouth.

so i would say 50% of my time i spent doing designing work(what this means is write ideas, test the ideas with paper prototypes, go begging the older students etc for advice(s)) the other time i sat on my ass doing project managing stuff (and the last 2 weeks work my ass of 16 hours a day building the maddest arcade machine uve ever seen!!!)


so in short, yes there are people who are designated designers that doesnt do anything else, but there are rarely any1 who has that job more than 80% of their time until u reach bigger projects of like 12ppl or so, where u can have 4 programmers 4 graphic artist, sound, producer and lead asskickers!




i read u had some problem with your spacerts, and since we are in this topic i would suggest finding what makes your game unique, are there any fun(odd(!)) ways of controlling the game and just try to enhance them, is there something that looks cool but doesnt seem worth the time, spend some more time on it.

 

[Wildstar]

realistic guestimate of completion time

two months, happeh ?

as for the actual topic, i study as a game programmer but my role during the last projects have been lead designer(and producer) which means i decide what is good and what is crap whenever some1 opens their mouth.

so i would say 50% of my time i spent doing designing work(what this means is write ideas, test the ideas with paper prototypes, go begging the older students etc for advice(s)) the other time i sat on my ass doing project managing stuff (and the last 2 weeks work my ass of 16 hours a day building the maddest arcade machine uve ever seen!!!)

so in short, yes there are people who are designated designers that doesnt do anything else, but there are rarely any1 who has that job more than 80% of their time until u reach bigger projects of like 12ppl or so, where u can have 4 programmers 4 graphic artist, sound, producer and lead asskickers!

i read u had some problem with your spacerts, and since we are in this topic i would suggest finding what makes your game unique, are there any fun(odd(!)) ways of controlling the game and just try to enhance them, is there something that looks cool but doesnt seem worth the time, spend some more time on it.

Thanks but I didn't intend it to mean that there isn't any jobs where a person only focuses on creative ideas. It's rare and I agree. I agree, the lead decides ultimately what goes in and what is left out but often the whole team contributes ideas.

It wasn't me that had the SpaceRTS problem but I have had made mistakes in the past in projects but still to wise up. Don't announce until you got something.

Two month... heh. Yeah. Like said, a realistic guesstimate when you have a clear idea.

 

[skeezix]

Only read half the threa, but heres something. Somehow we're all raised to think the opposite of what is reality..

Ideas are cheap. As in.. not valuable.

A few ideas are great and worth a lot.. but the reality is _implementation_ and creation and support and such are worth something. With millions of humans around, theres a lot of ideas. But people who build and support something for years.. thats value.

So no, you generally don't make money coming up with a game idea. Big ticket designers like Richard Garriot etc.. they're getting money (aside from the 'brand etc'), from creating an idea, and going through with design sessions daily, reiewing and refining and working metrics and math over, ensuring player experience is good, etc and so on. Its a lot of work.

Don't be thinking you'll get rich from whipping off an idea and then have a year off

jeff

Maddest arcade machine? You're in tough company on this site my friend; one of my boxes looks like a stubby tardis console -- I built up a cocktail with joysticks on all 4 sides (so you can play portrait or landscape without trouble) .. the joystick heads can be popped off relatively easily so I can swap leaf-sticks or microswitch-sticks in though I usually keep leafs on the vertical ends .. old school shooters are better on leafs

 

[Jourdy288]

OK, I'd like to thank you all for the wonderful advice, I just have to get to work now, lol.
On the upside, I got a job making sprites! I do have great ideas, now I know how to get them off the ground, thank you so much again!