How To Deal With The Newbs?


Aninhumer

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Lots of stuff here, I'll trim quotes aggressively. ;)

Gruso said:
- An auto-PM (from a board bot or something) upon registration, explaining that the site covers a range of handhelds, and people should double check which section they're in before posting a new topic. This forum's PM notifications are pretty hard to miss.
That's actually an excellent idea for directing people to the knowledge bases. Stronger than a sticky, but not as annoying as a "you MUST read this first!".

Christoph.Krn said:
On information management:
SNIP
I certainly think the current information sources could do with reviewing for their "Newb friendliness", and you raise some good points about this.
I remember when I was first learning about the Pandora after being out of this scene for a while, that the FAQ was completely out of date, and I had to lurk on the forums for a while to get back in the loop. The FAQ seems to have improved now, but it certainly tends to be in delay of the word on the forums.
Also while I know they have a lot to worry about right now, we could use OpenPandora's help in cleaning up what resources we have, and ensuring that their official information is 100% reliable, and offers useful links to the community resources.

"Noobs" (I dislike words like "Noobs", "Newbees" and similar as I see it being used by many people to generally imply specific negative attitudes; Being offensive in any way is not my intention, that would destroy all constructiveness) likely won't click the "Pandora Wiki" link on the official "Questions and Answers" page either, as most people won't expect to find an FAQ there that is MUCH different from the one they're looking at on the official website at the same moment. There's one particular posting in this thread that I would like to point out:
I think the generally agreed terms are:
Newb[ie]: a new member who just lacks background knowledge
n00b: a new member who ignores the rules and refuses to accept criticism

second exodous said:
Only one person needs to post 'this has already been asked, here is where to look', the ten others after that one person that quote him saying 'yeah, why does this need to be SAID again, it has be talked about a million times' or 'yes, like so and so said use the search', ect. don't need to be posted.

Basically it's the people that are annoyed that keep the topic alive which pulls in more annoyed people until the thread has been posted on for an entire day. If everyone after the first person that gave help would just ignore the thread it would be pushed off the front page. Basically if you're not helping the person asking the question or you're being rude don't post.

Do that make sense?
This is exactly my point.
I suppose this is also made worse by the fact that we really don't have a lot to talk about until it is released, so complaining is at least a semblance of activity :p

B-ZaR said:
I think the point is: "give a noob an easy answer and he'll always bug you, teach a noob to find information on his own and he'll never bug anyone again" :)

I agree that it should be possible to ask questions without an angry mob lynch squad jumping you, but I also think it's reasonable to expect people to at least try to search clearly labeled places (like the information index) themselves before asking others.
I don't think anyone here is arguing against teaching newbies to find information themselves.
It's certainly reasonable to expect people to put in the effort of reading the FAQ and searching, but I think it's quite easy for people not familiar with forums to miss the info links for whatever reason, and we certainly shouldn't consider that anything more than a beginners mistake.
(If they continue to do it, that's a different matter)

WizardStan said:
What I'm proposing (in my round about way of proposing anything) is that we stop discussing how to make our responses to newb questions polite, and focus on making followup responses to flaming responses to newb questions. I need some kind of zen saying here about controlling others: basically, it won't work. We can all discuss this until a set of rules is established, and then 5 months from now someone who has only been around for 3 months (but still well respected) encounters his own "WTF" newb question and snaps.
I think in the case that someone posts something offensive for whatever reason these posts can be mostly defused by making it clear in other posts that that isn't the opinion of the entire forum.
Being attacked by an individual isn't nice, but being attacked by an entire forum is horrible.
EDIT: Pleng suggested the best way of doing this! :p

This also hopefully makes the aggressor reconsider their conduct, and reduces the chance of that happening in future.
You also raise the important point that we should also assume good faith initially on the part of those who do post something slightly offensive. They might have had a tough day or whatever.
 
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Jourdy288

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(naw)mcx said:
[sub]A quiz, no pass, no post.
Just basic stuff, requires a bit of research.[/sub]
Actually a good idea!
 
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Pleng

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Jourdy288 said:
(naw)mcx said:
[sub]A quiz, no pass, no post.
Just basic stuff, requires a bit of research.[/sub]
Actually a good idea!

What is your obsession with quizzes?!
 
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Jourdy288

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Pleng said:
Jourdy288 said:
(naw)mcx said:
[sub]A quiz, no pass, no post.
Just basic stuff, requires a bit of research.[/sub]
Actually a good idea!

What is your obsession with quizzes?!

Very funny. I think it's a good idea, passing a quiz of common knowledge stuff every n00b should know prior to posting.
Good idea.
 
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second exodous

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Jourdy288 said:
Pleng said:
Jourdy288 said:
(naw)mcx said:
[sub]A quiz, no pass, no post.
Just basic stuff, requires a bit of research.[/sub]
Actually a good idea!

What is your obsession with quizzes?!

Very funny. I think it's a good idea, passing a quiz of common knowledge stuff every n00b should know prior to posting.
Good idea.
Might be interesting, have them fill a multiple choice quiz with the link to where they could find the answer, so kinda an open book quiz. It would be really strange though, and might make some people think twice about buying a Pandora. We would be the first forum to do it I bet. We could disguise it as a method to keep bots out of the forums in registration though.
 
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Prometheus

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Such a thing would not just affect this sub-forum, would it? GP32X is not just about the Pandora.

I do still have to wonder what a person forced to jump through such hoops would tell others considering a purchase. I would suspect they would think it elitist.
 

Aninhumer

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second exodous said:
Might be interesting, have them fill a multiple choice quiz with the link to where they could find the answer, so kinda an open book quiz. It would be really strange though, and might make some people think twice about buying a Pandora. We would be the first forum to do it I bet. We could disguise it as a method to keep bots out of the forums in registration though.
Prometheus said:
Such a thing would not just affect this sub-forum, would it? GP32X is not just about the Pandora.

I do still have to wonder what a person forced to jump through such hoops would tell others considering a purchase. I would suspect they would think it elitist.
I think this is why I'm against a Quiz, or any kind of attempt to force people to learn a bunch of stuff up front.
For most people it would be annoying, and just for a very few people it would stop them asking maybe one stupid question.
And people would still ask the slightly less obvious things like "Will moderately obscure app 83 run on the Pandora?".
 
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Jourdy288

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Perhaps as they type the question 'can I emulate Windows Vista on a Pandora' it would ask them if a certain thread already answers their question. If not, they'd go ahead and ask.
 

Aninhumer

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Username said:
I think new members should have to pass a spelling test rather than a test of their knowledge.
Some people on the forums aren't native English speakers, including some talented devs.
 
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Username

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Aninhumer said:
Username said:
I think new members should have to pass a spelling test rather than a test of their knowledge.
Some people on the forums aren't native English speakers, including some talented devs.
Not one in english, just one in the language of their choice.
 
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Pleng

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Prometheus said:
Such a thing would not just affect this sub-forum, would it? GP32X is not just about the Pandora.

I do still have to wonder what a person forced to jump through such hoops would tell others considering a purchase. I would suspect they would think it elitist.

Ye if I'd had to fill out a quiz to join, I wouldn't have even bothered. I assume it's the same for at least 90% of people here.
 
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kingoddball

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Just be nice to n00bs like me.
We can't all we smart nerds right away! :(
It takes time. Besides... They may have money. Make them BUY your knowledge!
 

Christoph.Krn

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Pleng said:
WizardStan said:
What I'm proposing (in my round about way of proposing anything) is that we stop discussing how to make our responses to newb questions polite, and focus on making followup responses to flaming responses to newb questions.

I agree, and suggest the following template as a response:


:p

I'd like to point you all to the "How To Answer Questions in a Helpful Way" section of Eric S. Raymond's "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way", but not without adding the information that some of Eric Raymond's documents are (partly) controversial (and so is he).





Aninhumer said:
Christoph.Krn said:
"Noobs" (I dislike words like "Noobs", "Newbees" and similar as I see it being used by many people to generally imply specific negative attitudes; Being offensive in any way is not my intention, that would destroy all constructiveness) likely won't click the "Pandora Wiki" link on the official "Questions and Answers" page either, as most people won't expect to find an FAQ there that is MUCH different from the one they're looking at on the official website at the same moment. There's one particular posting in this thread that I would like to point out:
I think the generally agreed terms are:
Newb[ie]: a new member who just lacks background knowledge
n00b: a new member who ignores the rules and refuses to accept criticism
Not necessarily. Some people may do it this way, but not everyone.

Additionally, using specific labels to refer to certain people where it isn't necessary may lead to discrimination if not handled carefully.
Also, to me "n00b" sounds too much like "1337", which I despise for having a rude mentality and having hardly anything to do with true computer science. But I guess I'm getting off-topic there. :)
 
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quartercast

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Shouldn't this topic be called "How to deal with grumpy forum veterans?" :D
 

GlassDeviant

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Unfathomable Depths said:
Newbs? On an, as yet, unreleased platform?

Are you kidding? There are already entire fora dedicated to the PlayStation 4, and Sony hasn't even announced officially that there will be one :)
 
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