GPD Win (x86 Computer / Palmtop)

[vcoleiro1]

@Exophase

It does look like the fan will be manually operated, although it's very difficult to tell, as the only GPD person we have contact with is the PR person. So at times they don't really know the technical details of the system.

That all said, the fan has three settings, OFF, LOW and HIGH. So there is a low setting.

If it is manual only as it looks to be, it's going to be a little initial trial and error to get a feel for what games generally require it (& at what setting), and which don't . After that, you should get the hang of which will and wont need the fan to keep from thermal throttling. To initially asist with that, you can display the temp in the bottom corner and turn on the fan when it gets above a certain temp. Not the best, but far better than only having a passive cooling option I suppose

Intial tests have shown the fan makes a tremendous difference over the fanless WIN prototype. Whereas demanding games like Street Fighter 5 were getting to over 80C and thermally throttling after 10 minutes , with the fan it's stable at around 55C.

I suppose for heat control you just can't beat a fan, well , not unless you have water cooling.

 

[Yoyobuae]

a comment was posted from GPD saying that the fan can only be manually operated.

My first though when I read this:

Would've been hard to play a game with one hand always busy running the fan. At least it wouldn't hurt battery life, so that's a plus.

 

[TheOldOne]

I was reading on Dingoonity, and a comment was posted from GPD saying that the fan can only be manually operated. So does that mean that the user presses a switch that toggles the fan between off and full RPM?

If so this is a very limited design. It's going to be really annoying to have to constantly turn the fan on when you think it'ss needed and off when you think it isn't, or live with the drain on power consumption and noise by having it always run (and also deal with increased wear...). Plus no ability to run the fan at a lower speed if that's all that's necessary for cooling.

All I can say to that is "WHY"
[doublepost=1472863279,1472863056][/doublepost]

Intial tests have shown the fan makes a tremendous difference over the fanless WIN prototype. Whereas demanding games like Street Fighter 5 were getting to over 80C and thermally throttling after 10 minutes , with the fan it's stable at around 55C.

It will run a lot hotter than that here as I doubt the fan con keep the CPU down to ambient temperature. It does rarely get to 130f/55c here

 

[Exophase]

All I can say to that is "WHY"

I'm guessing they simply didn't have any software controlled PWMs exposed in a way they could connect to, and they can't very well update the PCB for this.

 

[Faust]

All I can say to that is "WHY"
[doublepost=1472863279,1472863056][/doublepost]It will run a lot hotter than that here as I doubt the fan con keep the CPU down to ambient temperature. It does rarely get to 130f/55c here

I think he is talking about this:


It's at least under 60°C, more than enough not to worry while playing under heavy games!

 

[EvilDragon]

I'm guessing they simply didn't have any software controlled PWMs exposed in a way they could connect to, and they can't very well update the PCB for this.

Given the speed they designed the unit, my guess is they took a reference design by Intel and copied it almost 1:1 on their small PCB.
If the reference design was for a tablet, it didn't have a fan.

AFAIK the mobile Intel chips are pin compatible, so it could be the reference design was for an older SoC that didn't get as hot as well.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Apparently GPD have started production of the GPD WIN today for Chinese JD.com backers (about 2340 of them). They estimate shipping to Chinese jd.com backers will start in 3 days time ie the 8th.

A few weeks ago GPD said they had over 7000 pre-orders and backers for the WIN, must be close to 8000 now I'd guess.

 

[thatgui]

I'm guessing they simply didn't have any software controlled PWMs exposed in a way they could connect to, and they can't very well update the PCB for this.

Creating a small circuit for fan control and connect that internally (in the worst case) via an off-shelf USB-chip shouldn't be that of a big deal - or is it ?

Apparently GPD have started production of the GPD WIN today for Chinese JD.com backers (about 2340 of them). They estimate shipping to Chinese jd.com backers will start in 3 days time ie the 8th.

Do they have their own production facilities ? For a "layman extraordinaire" like me, this sounds very fast for doing production, quality assurance and packaging for more then 2000 units.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I have heard people say GPD/Softwin are an OEM - but I'm not sure on this. They also have a design house SW and HW. In the past they have supposedly produced gaming consoles for other companies . It doesn't seem like much time goes by befween GPD saying things like - we want to make a change, and here is a manufactured part of that change . In October last year they had an idea of producing a Windows handheld, supposedly some user(s) had written into them requesting it. In December they had 3 designs - very rough sketch like drawings they showed the Dingoonity community and requested we provide feedback by commenting or via emailing them. All of those designs were nothing really like what we see today. ie these -> http://boards.dingoonity.org/gpd-devices/windows-handheld-device/msg135483/#msg135483


Some time later, they showed us a concept which was similar to what you know of the WIN today. Now in September, it's in production for Chinese backers after having gone through a ton of changes . So 11 months from initial idea of doing something, to production. I think the GPD XD was a similar timeframe if not a tad quicker.

As for units per day they can make, that's something I should know , as I read their answer on that recently. However the exact number eludes me. I think it was 2-3K a week. As for shipping, that was something like 500 a day

 

[Exophase]

Creating a small circuit for fan control and connect that internally (in the worst case) via an off-shelf USB-chip shouldn't be that of a big deal - or is it ?

There are USB PWM controllers, but this means making a new PCB and finding some place to mount it in a design that wasn't really meant to have extra space available for such things. This is also assuming they had extra USB ports exposed somewhere, which I kind of doubt.. otherwise they'd need to add a hub chip too.

At the very least it'd be a tangible added expense which can be pretty bad for a product they've already promised to 7000+ people at a fixed price. It'd also be a much more significant schedule slip for a product that they need to ship ASAP. At least the fan cost is itself is partially or entirely mitigated by no longer needing one of the speakers, and the manual control can be handled by wiring a switch directly. Assuming that the multi-speed control is a feature of the fan itself.

 

[ElPoco]

Do they have their own production facilities ? For a "layman extraordinaire" like me, this sounds very fast for doing production, quality assurance and packaging for more then 2000 units.

It's impressive how quickly things can go in Shenzhen. They've got all the materials, all the factories, they can do some insanely fast iterative prototyping.
Then it all depends on how many production machines they have and how people they've got on the assembly line for the QA, but if needed they can just hire as many additional workers as they need for a few days.

 

[EvilDragon]

Yes, Global Components told me that chinese companies always give chines companies top priorities, and often sell parts and services for half the price or less.

It's impressive - and impossible to compete with

 

[vcoleiro1]

@ED.

I've also heard that if your a western company looking to deal with a Chinese company, that it's worth while going there and negotiating face to face with the sales team. Apparently you can negotiate a much better deal that way. This was said by a Spanish reseller who was asked why he went to visit GPD in person. I suppose that all makes sense.

 

[ElPoco]

Historically, Chinese do business within the "family". In the Western world, this is frowned upon (even if that happens nearly eveywhere), but in China it's the normal course of things: you want to do business with people from your guanxi.
When you're a Western company, getting inside tha guanxi might be worth it. A "customer" is just a piggy bank you send stuff to to get money. A "partner" is someone you'll work with in search of mutual benefits. But the guanxi is not at company level, it's at individual level. You, as a person, needs to become friend with the manager, as a person, for this to happen. And then being part of the guanxi means that you're also expected to be looking for the benefits of the partner's company. If you're just in for better prices, things are likely to turn sour.

 

[CapcomSuicide]

GPD are great, they are a real driving force in R&D to production. Sure they borrow ideas, but I have to admit, with all the video's of GPD Win, I have almost started to feel a bit unsure if my Pyra pre-order was the smart thing to do. (I have 2 Pandora). The reason being that playing PC games that are 5-6 years old from my steam account could be great fun, and its is quite refreshing to see the protypes to production units process go so fast. GPD are becoming the casual retro gamers "Go to" supplier.

But then I considered that Pyra is something else. It's a concept based on a different philosophy and it remains unique in it's open standards. It will be lots of fun to tinker around with settings and open source software etc. In terms of a pure emulation machine, it will be the balance between horesepower and battery life, and to be honest I can use my Surface Pro 4 i7 for mobile PC gaming, so I want something less power hungry, the Pyra will be great. I suspect that I am part of quite a small customer base wanting that type of feature for such a high cost.

The Pandora was (Still is) very special, because it offered amazing performance up to PS1, and for the time there was no better option. I'm not really interested in retro gaming past PS1 personally, as the 8-16Bit era was my fave time. It is interesting that the SNES emulator on Pandora still is a port from a more popular, cheaper Dingoo device. So now, 5 years later, we still can't add screen filters or other advanced effects.

An open device is dependent on the fantastic work of the dev's. These people in turn need to be motivated and/or rewarded for their work, and the smaller the install base, the harder it is to attract talent.

Therefore by using Windows on the GPD Win, and Android on XD, the potential developer base is far wider than a custom linux distro on a unti with less than 1000 users. Android on Pyra being an obvious workaround, but hat's off to GPD; they are monetizing a small part of the tech sector very successfully.

 

[fusion_power]

Do they have their own production facilities ? For a "layman extraordinaire" like me, this sounds very fast for doing production, quality assurance and packaging for more then 2000 units.

Yupp, I find this also most impressive. It seems everything goes smooth there in high contrast to the chinese Pandora production odyssey. I'm sure the long development for Pandora/Pyra gave us the wrong impression how fast such an Handheld production actualy could be if everything comes together.

Yes, Global Components told me that chinese companies always give chines companies top priorities, and often sell parts and services for half the price or less.

Even so (compared) small companies like GPD? UNFAIR! How dare they.
Next time you should cover up under an chinese company or fake one to get their conditions! You know, China, Dragons 'n stuff, fits!

 

[EvilDragon]

Even so (compared) small companies like GPD? UNFAIR! How dare they.

Why does everyone think they're SMALL?
Yes, the GPD team itself is small, but AFAIK their main company has their own production facilities, millions of USD, etc.
They probably don't have many 3rd party companies involved, they can do their own molds, etc.

I guess if I was in the same boat, the production costs of the Pyra could be cut to 150 - 200 EUR, which is less than half.

 

[WizardStan]

It seems everything goes smooth there in high contrast to the chinese Pandora production odyssey.

There was a video Craig posted once how hard it was doing business in China. Yeah, it saves a lot of money, but you make up for it in extra headaches. The guy in the video said things started going smoother when he started making regular trips, staying for a week once a month, and hiring his own translator instead of using whoever was at the facility.
When Craig started complaining about the problems he was having, I suggested he do like the video suggested: hire a translator, block a week off, and go visit the factory. I was branded an armchair engineer and didn't know what I was talking about.
Anywho, that's basically the jist of it though: Chinese working with Chinese, they're all there, they can coordinate, and there's motivation to get things done; American/Britain/whatever working with Chinese, the client is thousands of KM away and doesn't seem very serious about their needs to leeway is taken. Show up once a month, spend a week, bring a translator, and now you're serious and things will get done, or so it would seem.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Well I asked GPD if they manufacture products in house. But the answer wasn't 100% clear to me, perhaps someone who is familiar with their terminology could shed some light.

Sounds very much like they use someone else to do the manufacturing. The terminology used reminds me of what Elpoco was just saying regarding how they see companies they deal with as partners. I suppose it makes sense for them not to have millions invested in SMT etc machines and plant costs. Especially when they are in Shenzen with a ton of companies all around them that can do that service for them.


"Just out of curiosity , I was wondering, does GPD have a manufacturing facility to make the GPD WIN , or do you get another company to make the GPD WIN?

Thanks for support. GPD WIN is designed and developed by our own team and assemble by our cooperation factory."

 

[vcoleiro1]

It seems there is a bug with this forum. I had edited the post above so that it reads "regarding how they see companies". However above it still says "the"

When I go into edit it, it's correctly shown as "they" . Tried saving it again, but still no dice, weird. The editor shows it correctly, but it still displays incorrectly.