GPD Win (x86 Computer / Palmtop)

[comradekingu]

I think the MHz race is over and done with. Regular desktop computing has met the threshold of pleasantness long ago, and a 5" flat surface cant do anything beyond what regular people want with more oomph. There is a bit of focus on efficiency, but thats the same as range-anxiety on a electric car.
Once the battery is bigger than anything you can imagine doing in a day, it stops being an issue.

The GPD _cant_ play all games played on windows 10, it can run them, huuuge difference.

One issue there is speed, and the other is the formfactor.

When neither the formfactor nor the speed allows for the typical AAA win10-games, its a false projection.

Fortunately very speed-requiring games dont fit handhelds, and instead cater to desktops with regular mice-control.

So both the GPD and the Pyra should focus on things it can do, and show those things. The actual things, not just specs that you can reasonably translate to meaningful assumption if you have the technical insight to do so.

Pyra:

*games, all in one here, retro emulation, indie-games, scene games.
*phone, exclusive to a device that can do *games, and also has some freedom exclusives
*work, less weight, easier to travel with, done deal.
*photography, same argument here, with *phone it becomes a news-desk, get the whole workflow done anywhere
*music, space to store FLACs galore, possibility of hooking up high-end DACs and amplifiers on the go, this usually costs a whole lot more, which people are willing to pay for a device that does only that.
*free open community, no spying, free software, friendly people, the most democratized and lowest hierarchy.

*environmental, modular, made to last, made in Europa, friendly packaging, no excess plastic, follows regulations. The pyra gets a non-bold mention here, because the fairphone does this best, a lot of small things could be done to improve here, and it goes a looooong way. Both in gaining support and in communicating fairness in what becomes the price you pay.

Gpd:
*Special software can run x86 windows software that doesn't run in wine or any other environment
*speed it is the faster out of the two, but not modular
*price it is cheaper, which it does through the art of non-communication. Spying, made in china and non environmental not a focus.
*10-finger keyboard ? Im thinking that works, but i havent tried it, looks like it has been a priority.

*work same as for the pyra, need to pair with phone to have wireless connectivity.
*music less storage, but can hook up high-end DACs, betweent the pyra and the gpd, it should make a real dent in dedicated high-end players market.

 

[Agricola]

You can even use VMware Workstion install the Windows 98 or Windows XP play the retro game

I love the retro game! I'm always win in that.

I agree with @vcoleiro1 , but the idiots are probably more visible if you own a shop than if you're surfing on forums. On the other hand, 25% returns is a shocking number, I never would have thought it could be that high. But then again I'm shocked about the 57/200 pre-preorders that aren't converted to a normal preorder yet...

 

[EvilDragon]

I agree with @vcoleiro1 , but the idiots are probably more visible if you own a shop than if you're surfing on forums.

Probably, yes. As they don't log in to some community, but simply send it back.

On the other hand, 25% returns is a shocking number, I never would have thought it could be that high.

That's pretty normal. Many users buy in online shops to try out the product and then send it back.
Many shops (like mine) even pay the return shipping costs for more expensive products, so each return does cost me 8 EUR in total.

I find it a bit more shocking that I receive more defective units with each batch I receive from GPD.
The first batch only had a few units with defects, the second one a few more, but the one I just received has seen quite a few issues, 3 or 4 out of 10 units had some kind of defect like a sticky DPad, broken lines or columns on the LCD, one speaker not working, one even had a crack in the plastic.

Sure, GPD is awesome with support and send me all the repair parts I need, but it would be better if the units didn't have defects to begin with

Let's hope it will improve again with the next batches.

 

[Agricola]

So did you actually calculate 25% return rates with the Pyra? I've seen some videos where people just saw the price in US$ on your shop an said they want to order it, do you expect rates this high from users who don't get that this is only a partial payment? I mean the pre-preorders already point that way, and especially fo those I didn't expect customers not to understand it as it was only advertised on the forums for "hardcore fans".

(Sorry for de-railing, after this question is answered I will stop.)

 

[rygD]

Don't read too much into the pre-preorders that haven't done a preorder. I am one of them, and I have specific reasons (and I talked to ED about it, so it is just a temporary delay on my part). In addition to my (somewhat common) reason, I can imagine a few other reasons why people are intentionally waiting, with a potentially important one being indecision or waiting for more info regarding the phone capabilities.

 

[comradekingu]

Sounds like GPD knows you can fix devices and send more faulty ones to you. I wouldnt think their process worsens over time.

If its just random assembly errors and Q&A stuff, it must mean they are either skimping on it, or "outsourcing" it to their distributors.

 

[erico]

@EvilDragon
I expect even the dumbest Windows user to either understand minimum system requirements or to deinstall games that don't work at all on the system...

Oh my! You must live surrounded by computer users (which is great!).
Here, the majority of people I know knows nothing about computers, ram,hd space and video memory are all the same to this people, an unknown.
Some of them work daily over a computer without knowing jack crap about what is going on. First I thought it to be funny, then I realized it is a very scary thing.
Either way, apart from producing "false" sales, it puts us that know a bit of it over the top.

 

[fusion_power]

Also, Golem.de (a huge tech news website in Germany) made a review of the GPD XD.
Before that, out of 20 sold units, I had about 1 returned to me.
After the review, sales tripled, but returns increased a LOT more. Now out of 20 sold units, I have about 5 returns.
That value is five times higher.

I can see a similar effect with my shop: When it was smaller, I had almost NO returns, as the people who found my shop KNEW what they were buying.
Now I also sell on Amazon. Most of the returns I have are from users who bought via Amazon.

The more you reach outside of your niche, the more non-techy people you'll reach.

This is an marketing issue then. If a device is announced propperly it should be no big issue with returns. You have to reach te correct target audience and communicate clearly what a device is for and what not. I doubt that Apple & Co. have much returns because the Device was not correctly advertised. Heck, these devicesdswould even sell without much marketing, they just "flush" into the Market.
Pandora/Pyra is niche but I'm sure it all depends on how you advertise it. It's not for everyone for sure.

 

[EvilDragon]

Nope, nothing to do with marketing.
The larger and more public know a system is, the more buy it without even reading a description or watching any video.

 

[directive0]

Apple has a 15 day "no questions" return policy. I recently had to return an iMac for our office because it was not suitable for our purposes. I asked the store rep if people return things a lot, his answer was "we get returns everyday, its really common. Usually it's just to swap for a more suitable device like you did, but sometimes its just because the person changed their mind or didn't do their research and weren't aware that the product they bought wasn't appropriate."

 

[Neelix]

I find it a bit more shocking that I receive more defective units with each batch I receive from GPD.
The first batch only had a few units with defects, the second one a few more, but the one I just received has seen quite a few issues, 3 or 4 out of 10 units had some kind of defect like a sticky DPad, broken lines or columns on the LCD, one speaker not working, one even had a crack in the plastic.

Sure, GPD is awesome with support and send me all the repair parts I need, but it would be better if the units didn't have defects to begin with

Let's hope it will improve again with the next batches.

Hang on, So let me get this straight... GPD send you unreasonably large numbers of faulty devices, and you're fixing as many of them as you can? I reckon comradekingu may have the right of it there, sounds like they're offloading all their defective units on you 'cause they know you'll fix them if you can. You're effectively acting as their QA department. I hope you're getting a decent discount on those defective units.

-Neelix

 

[EvilDragon]

No, seriously. I doubt GPD would do that. Besides, many issues had been reported before I even sold the units.

As mentioned, contact and support with GPD is great, a lot better than with most chinese companies, but right now, the failure rate is similar bad like other chinese devices (SuperRetroTrio, GameGadget, Dingoo, etc. also had bad failure rates).

I was hoping that GPD would have a better QA as well, but it doesn't seem so.

From what I heard from other companies, it's not uncommon for Chinese manufacturers that the quality degrades over time.

After the product is finished and in production, they try to lower the costs... but that often also leads to quality issues.
But as the reviews all had the good 1st batch...

It's amazing. I only opened about 10 GPDs so far, but have seen two different LCDs and three different types of speakers.

They seem to just buy any fitting parts they can, regardless of the manufacturer... it just has to be cheap.

 

[comradekingu]

Ive been trying to keep track of how people talk on the phone nowadays, when out and about earbuds and inline mic seems to be the overwhelming majority. I think it is also because listening to music is a phone-operated geschafft, which when you have that set up, makes for a better system answering calls.

Phones are quite good for checking something quick, like wikipedia, but as soon as it requires any input, it is a non-starter.
It is possible to have a GPD WIN tethered to your phone via cable all the time, but that is as quirky as a dedicated 3G dongle, and then you are looking at 3 things. The time-investment to set up wired tethering fails for the same reason the smartphone stays pocketed for real tasks.
Wireless tether is possible but means great battery drain, and while the GPD battery is big, phone-batteries generally aren't, and if they are, like mine, you are carrying two lumps that greatly overlap, but don't combine particularly well.

If you want to listen to music its not going to be from the GPD, because then you have to plug that into the phone when there is a call. Or have wireless headphones and transfer the signal before the other party hangs up. So while the GPD does a lot of mobility things well, you are still doing them on your phone.

For games you have the openpandora situation, playing with headphones, means you have to similarly re-plug for calls, or hold the phone with your hand, which makes for one-handed gameplay without sound.

What i use/used the openpandora the most for was listening to music. When there is a call on the cellphone, it feels like i have to stop to turn the casette and re-pocket everything to continue.

With the openpandora, desktop linux wasn't where it is now, and limited storage space didn't help.
For how many things got fixed throughout its lifetime, its only possible if you have a good userbase and a superb repair service.
With the potential for unforeseen things, its a very good idea to have the first ideas going out to a true and trusted community.

I don't think GPD will have an easy time maintaining a full laptop system to begin with, and I think their customers are less technically advanced overall.
GPD absolutely need retailers like ED, whereas I don't see the same advantage in selling Pyras from other outlets.

I wonder how big open handhelds are in china or Asia. The communication from GPD has been sort of non-community behind closed doors from what i have seen. It emulates what "a company" does, but when that is the bad side of said company, I don't feel its the same community as here, and not the same product. A dead commodity that just breaks eventually and then that is it.

The real money seems to be in the users that aren't returning devices, and just bin or shelf them when their windows-install borks. From my time doing support, that seems like most the devices people have.
Grab an old bork laptop, rescue the data on it and make it quicker than the new semi-borked machine and it dawns on people that software is an installable thing that doesn't have the same vendor-hardware ties they think.

Intel isnt subsidizing their mobile devision for the chips, and MS isnt about to keep giving away licenses, so its going to be interesting to see how the gpd win progress in the future. Certainly the pyra has to eventually enter new terrain too.

 

[directive0]

They seem to just buy any fitting parts they can, regardless of the manufacturer... it just has to be cheap.

Hate to be a fanboy but after the problems I had with my GPD-5A this does not surprise me. The case of my unit didn't match the ones I saw online either, it had different logo branding and was sketchy as hell. When I opened it up I found hot-glue used liberally all over, wires of different types, screws that didn't match. It was a total shit-show.

Some things are worth spending more for, IMO.

 

[fusion_power]

The larger and more public know a system is, the more buy it without even reading a description or watching any video.

Really? Hm, I don't even buy a banana without reading it's description before. Imagine how long term I plan when I want to buy serious hardware, I still planing my next PC, going through every single part, reading reviews of all parts, compare, recheck etc...
I will never understand people that buy expensive hardware just by intiution or whatever. Ok, it's another thing when you don't describe your device propperly but if you do it correct, it's not your fault when the wrong audience is sending stuff back.

 

[Neelix]

Many years ago a department store ran a campaign with the slogan "The customer is always right." Ever since then that slogan has been used as an excuse by customers of every retailer and service provider in existence to avoid taking any responsibility for what they spend their money on... (and to make life hell for those employees that have to deal with them)


-Neelix

 

[TrashyMG]

I will never understand people that buy expensive hardware just by intiution or whatever.

Myself, Open Pandora, 6 years ago...

 

[FBnil]

I will never understand people that buy expensive hardware just by intuition or whatever

Funny that. I have a hardware shop I always go to. They are more expensive, but I just explain what I want and they give me the advice I need.
Also for cars this is not easy. They hide their variables. One is saver in the frontal crash-tests. but very bad in the sideway crash-test (and hide this fact). The other one gives more miles-a-gallon, the other is butt ugly but spacious inside, the other does not have a trunk with a rim, so your dead body does not fit in it. So any electrical problem in a modern car is a dead car (well, it has some modes where the steering wheel loses hydraulic assistance, prioritizing hydraulicking the break, but you will have to sit on your jacket because the chair does not go back up into position), while with an old less electrical car you could use chewing gum to make it work again.

 

[uryllium]

Myself, Open Pandora, 6 years ago...

Myself, Open Pandora, 2 weeks ago. Pyra, a few days after.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[fusion_power]

Myself, Open Pandora, 6 years ago...

Really without any information about in the forums or reading about before somewhere? I mean, maybe have heared about the Pandora before and what it is, such a tiny niche device doesn't strumble just over you, or did it?