GPD Win (x86 Computer / Palmtop)

[vcoleiro1]

So basically GPD have now come back and said no changes will happen to the GPD WIN layout. Supposedly the PCB and Molds are done. So it is what it is.

You would have to hold the right edge with your fingers to reach keys other than K, L, O , P etc with your right thumb. Doable , but hmm, whatever.

GPD tech using the 3D print of the GPD WIN: http://boards.dingoonity.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11410.0;attach=4772;image



...

 

[Klumpen]

I wonder why they don't use the same d-pad like on the Q9, it was the one thing they really did right.

 

[EvilDragon]

The XD one is a bit mushy, true. I am currently playing Pirates (PSP) on it and never sucked that bad in the dancing sequence

Oh well, sadly, that's a bit typical for a chinese company - they tend to rush. They're blazing fast, but they do not design a lot, they just do it.

 

[erico]

So basically GPD have now come back and said no changes will happen to the GPD WIN layout. Supposedly the PCB and Molds are done. So it is what it is.
...

hmmm...

 

[FaeMinx]

I'll pass on this i think...
... but i will be watching closely to see what they come up with next.

I don't hold high hopes though...

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Tapatalk

 

[comradekingu]

I have no idea why they didnt put that right column thing in the middle. Would have solved a whole heap of problems.

 

[rygD]

Well, I guess it will be good enough for some people, and should still be successful enough without all the changes. I think it shows some of the differences between their way of doing things and ED's, and the devotion of those behind each project to their community. It could still less to more copycats, which could be good our bad, both in general and for the Pyra.

I really think that they could have had something that had a little more impact if they hadn't rushed, and had taken into consideration what users needed and wanted. I understand that their focus is solely on gaming, yet it seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot there, too (keyboard, L3/R3, and mouse mode WILL make it hard to play some games). While the Pyra is a gaming handheld first, once all the gaming related stuff was sorted a major focus for a handful of people was the keyboard, and rightfully so. Why have a keyboard if it isn't really that usable? I could understand if the keys worked well enough when the device is on a table or desk, but they look like the same type of keys on my smartphones. In other words, much worse than the Pandora keyboard for use in that way (and probably barely comparable to the Pyra's, in general).

I hope the Win is successful enough that they get attention and decide to do another one in the future with more attention to detail. If they fix a few issues I may highly recommend the Win 2 to certain people that are interested in such things for more serious tasks, not just playing games. The Win could turn out to be great as it is, and my/our assumptions may be wrong.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I actually have a couple of slider keyboards with similar type keys. They are actually pretty good to use as in mechanical action wise. The only issue is they are close together. But with a little practice you can get the hang of it. But yeahh not the best solely due to proximity rather than mechanical action.

Anyway, I have put together a change to their layout that requires zero HW changes. I'll post it Dingoonity tomorrow and see if it will fly with everyone and GPD.

This is it here, obviously our designs that needed HW changes were a lot better, but given the limitations of zero HW changes allowed. This is the best I can come up with:

 

[Deen0X]

I did a last design before giving up of this cycle of unfruitful posting suggestions to GPD.

Considering they will not change the PCB for adjusting the keyboard...

 

[rygD]

I actually have a couple of slider keyboards with similar type keys. They are actually pretty good to use as in mechanical action wise. The only issue is they are close together. But with a little practice you can get the hang of it. But yeahh not the best solely due to proximity rather than mechanical action.

My whining was about those type of keys on a keyboard that isn't centered that is supposed to be used with thumbs. I am one of those weirdos that sometimes puts my Pandora and other palmtops on a table and types. It is ok, but not very good, with the Pandora. While slider keyboard feel nice, it would probably be impossible for me to reliably type with a small keyboard of that type sitting on a table since I would probably have as many typos as correct characters due to lack of space between the keys. I see tabletop typing as the best way to type more than a couple characters at a time with the keyboard they are going with. Sucks for thumb typing since it isn't centered, sucks for tabletop typing since everything is so close...

I get the feeling that they aren't, and never were, considering keyboard changes, even if it only requires changing what is printed on the keys, despite what kendy (and others?) said. Not really clear on wtf the point of saying it was.

I know I am preaching to the choir, but their power button seems to have been intentionally put in nearly the worst possible place...I mean if they expect people to type with it, that is. Not much that can be done to fix that. At least it isn't in the middle of all the gaming buttons on the right. Edit: or next to the spacebar.

 

[Jebe457]

Victor, my interpretation of their response was that they can't move the sticks up to the corners, because of concerns about the leverage that could put on the unit's motherboard. Not that they couldn't tweak the keyboard layout.

My interpretation based on that would be that the nubs and other buttons can't be moved but the keyboard could be tweaked ala Deen0x's setup, although they're looking at all those switches and scratching their heads.

I think they're sincere about looking at the options, and most of the vocal people are demanding 5 GHz WiFi and a keyboard fix.

 

[levi]

I have no idea why they didnt put that right column thing in the middle. Would have solved a whole heap of problems.

Because having a big gap between the letters on the middle would remind people of the MS Ergonomic keyboard from the late 90s.

Hmm, actually, just googling that brought up a model they brought out three years ago! So it seems they're still making the damn, things - just I've not seen a new one in use since 2000.

I wonder why they didn't use that big space between the nubs for some of those buttons - it seems a good place for rarely used buttons like the power button. That wouldn't solve the problems of reaching I/J/K/M with smaller hands, and it doesn't solve the problem of hitting F1-F6.

Also, I'm wondering how most people use virtual keyboards. On a larger device that you support with both hands, do you free up two thumbs to use it and have the same problem reaching the middle, or balance the unit on one hand, as you would with a smaller phone, and free up another hand to hover?

 

[rygD]

Because having a big gap between the letters on the middle would remind people of the MS Ergonomic keyboard from the late 90s.

Hmm, actually, just googling that brought up a model they brought out three years ago! So it seems they're still making the damn, things - just I've not seen a new one in use since 2000.

Lately I have been helping someone look for stuff to set up their office. I was in a 3 office supply stores yesterday and saw those. Sadly, I couldn't find a single good keyboard or mouse that was suitable for them. There was one keyboard that was ok, but I suggested trying a variety of mechanical keyswitches, after ergodox and such got shot down almost immediately. There were trackballs, and probably some mice that were good enough, but nothing that I would consider an upgrade to what they have (trackballs are unacceptable for some reason, so I recommended looking at mice that don't require twisting as much, but I suspect the current mouse will stay).

I think what I wanted to get at is the MS ergonomic keyboards weren't a consiferation by them because it is "weird" that it is split in the middle, or something. That is probably why I got the reaction I did to ergodox. Some people prefer things that look like they expect, even if the new thing is more beneficial. This reminds me of another recent discussion around here regarding the Pyra keyboard.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Basically they have said they can't put buttons between the sticks. We all suspect it's because they are going to put a big heat sink there, like on the GPD XD, which has a heatsink in the same spot.

@Jebe457
On the Chinese forum , our chinese friend published a ton of layout ideas - some with minor changes, they have rejected them all. It's clear they don't want to make any PCB or Mold changes. That's why the suggestion I posted above has Zero HW changes. There is absolutely no HW reason they can refuse it for now.

With the Power button, I suspect they will be making it so that you have to hold it down for 5 seconds, at least that should help a bit.

@Deen0X
They wont change the PCB or mold at all. Period. There is no point proposing HW changes anymore. We have to accept the cards we have been dealt and work with them.


@rygD

A ton of layouts have been proposed on the Dingoonity forum, we started of with custom layouts with a reduced amount of keys and spacing between the keys(http://i.imgur.com/8dvMAf0.jpg), And with the same reduced key layout and bigger keys (http://i.imgur.com/eoDx7ew.jpg). Then it went to trying to please them by keeping their KB layout and basing design off that. A number of people throughout stated that they hated the Pandora controls layout (ie in a line ) because they believe the inline layout is uncomfortable (some were also ok with the inline layout). They were adament that the GPD XD's style of controls needed to be adopted which I guess the majority preferred. Finally it ended up with the layout below which we were trying to push. Of course simple changes have also since been suggested, all were rejected. Unfortunately they are not going to make any changes to the PCB or Molds.

 

[rygD]

In addition to preferences of that community being reflected in those gaming controls, it would have made it clear that they were not trying to copy some stuff from the Pandora. Extra bonus would have been that we could see if that placement really did work better with the keyboard than the Pandora/Pyra placement. I doubt it really matters, as it probably comes down to personal preference.

Thanks to you guys and everyone else that tried to design a better layout for them. Maybe your ideas will be considered for a future project.

 

[Klumpen]

Hmm, looks like a toy,
especcially compared to this:

 

[fusion_power]

IMHO, the keyboard layout is not as important at the moment than the acural keyboard itself. It would need an overhaul, there should be a gap in the middle and the ouside buttons should be more inwards ftom bottom to top line, like on the Pandora/Pyra. Otherwise you can have trouble while usind D-Pad and Action buttons, at least so it looks.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Well I just shot this off to GPD as a last ditch effort to fix things within the constraints of not being able to make any HW changes at all

 

[rygD]

I hope for the Win buyers that they at least move L3/R3 to your spot.

 

[kuru]

Gotta admit - the HW switch for mouse/joystick mode is a good thing to have.

I#ve been thinking about what to put in that huge empty space between the analogue things

Used bubblegum
glue a mirror to it
coffee mug
post-it notes

The keyboard area looks like it used to be some cheapo wireless kb, the special buttons on the right and gaming controls seem like afterthoughts that have been slapped on there. Lazy.