GPchristan?

[papapopalung]

the homosexuality stuff is in leviticus... along with a whole load of other stuff (thou shalt not observe times, don't have tatoos, don't make cuttings in thy flesh for the dead, don't mar the corners of thy beard, don't eat anything from the sea without fins and scales, don't have sex with animals and don't have sex with women while they're on their period etc etc etc...).

these rules all got wiped out when jesus came, apparrently...

personally i think religions are like pokemon... gotta collect 'em all... and *then* you get the point...


religious fascism/hatred sucks, it's true... but you shouldn't say that god doesn't exist just because people are assholes...

 

[Deep Thought]

Non-religious personally, and yes i've heard of gnostic christianity. I've been trying to get a copy of the Gnostic gospels myself, but they're hard to find since that idiot Constantine and his council of Nicae didn't include them in the New Testament. *Glares at Roman Empire*

 

[generalnmx]

Incorrect.

As an agnostic who follows a roughly Buddhist way of life, I can tell you that agnosticism is the 'lack of belief' you attached to atheists. Atheists are defined as believing that there is no higher being, as their name suggests. (A - none, the - diety). IMHO atheism makes little sense as it is unprovable that no higher being exists. However, it is a lot more likely that no higher being exists than that it does, so to my mind atheism still makes more sense than Christianity.

It seems we had a misunderstanding.

Agnosticism is, by pure definition, skepticism on the nature of God (which is, by definition, a supernatural entity which governs the universe). One who feels it is impossible to know whether something like a God exists or not. This is not UNbelief (atheism), this is DISbelief. Huxley (the person who defined the word "agnostic") said, and I quote, "In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable". Agnosticism is the "religion" of true critical thinkers.

However, I learn towards something governing the universe, just not what the bible defines as "God", nor what I would call a "God" in any sense of the word (I learn more towards the "Atman"). So if you want to be technical, I might be more undogmatic or latitudinarian then a true follower of agnosticism (though I try).

Generalnmx, you are a Christian it seems, just a lax one. You are correct about the afterlife part: atheists generally believe that, and agnostics just keep their options open.

I think the finer point of Christianity is the belief in Jesus, and I do not believe in Jesus. In fact, I really don't agree with most of the bible, just bits and pieces of it.

 

[Rico]

Thankfully our definition can be cleared up thanks to The Atheism Web - the terms get misused a lot, by me in this case... I'm not use which usage is technically 'wrong' but anyway:

Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. This absence of belief generally comes about either through deliberate choice, or from an inherent inability to believe religious teachings which seem literally incredible. It is not a lack of belief born out of simple ignorance of religious teachings.

Some atheists go beyond a mere absence of belief in gods: they actively believe that particular gods, or all gods, do not exist. Just lacking belief in Gods is often referred to as the "weak atheist" position; whereas believing that gods do not (or cannot) exist is known as "strong atheism".

I took Atheism as 'strong', you take it as 'weak'.

The term 'agnosticism' was coined by Professor T.H. Huxley at a meeting of the Metaphysical Society in 1876. He defined an agnostic as someone who disclaimed both ("strong") atheism and theism, and who believed that the question of whether a higher power existed was unsolved and insoluble. Another way of putting it is that an agnostic is someone who believes that we do not know for sure whether God exists. Some agnostics believe that we can never know.

In recent years, however, the term agnostic has also been used to describe those who simply believe that the evidence for or against God is inconclusive, and therefore are undecided about the issue.

Huxley again. As you can see, an agnostic could be equated to a weak atheist using the former definition. I use the latter. You seemed to be insistent that an agnostic would believe in a higher power - I only see that as an optional belief after reading the above.

I think the best definition for myself would be 'freethinker':

A freethinker is one who thinks freely -- one who is prepared to consider any possibility, and who determines which ideas are right or wrong by bringing reason to bear, according to a consistent set of rules such as the scientific method.

 

[Rico]

However, it is a lot more likely that no higher being exists than that it does, so to my mind atheism still makes more sense than Christianity.

Well, speaking about statistics, I think you cannot say it is more like that a higher being exists. And as I plan to begin studying physics I can tell you that almost all [phsysics] professors believe in a higher being...

Physics means nothing in this context. A scientist does not study philosophy, and demands proof for everything. This is why string theory is regarded more of as a way of thinking than a true scientific theory at the moment. A true physics professor would discount a higher being based on a lack of proof, and indeed that has been my experience with professors so far.

 

[vishwats]

Wow, A Six Page Thread Already...

I took time to read most of the posts, and some of them were very interesting.

I do not want to get into my life story, but I was a Hindu before (believed in Karma). Now I am a Christian.

It is a pity that due to the acts of Church during the medieval period, it has made difficult for people to accept christianity, not even that - people think that all christians are liars, decievers, and organized religion is evil.

As far as I am concerned, there is God, because I have literally experienced his mercy, I am one of the living example of all the Athiest, Agnostic posts. I asked the similar questions, I wanted to find faults in teachings of bible so I can say that it is no different from other religious books.
I also studied in a Catholic college for 2 years, and stayed in their hostel where a Priest was the warden. And at that time there is no way any one would have convinced me of christianity.

Bible does not contradict, people take things out of context and try to use it (both christians and non christians) hence the practice has become contradictory.

But, listen people, there are people in this world who still live like Christ (not like any of the christians whom you know)

Also listen, all those people who use abusive languages and shrug off as though it is a Joke, just do not want to come in contact with God, because their entire life will pass in front of them like a mirror and they do not want to confront it.

And all those who are christians who does not care for their religion anymore, I feel pity for you, because you guys are sitting on the truth and refuse to acknowledge it. (remember, I was a non christian before)

I am not talking about the religious aspects of christianity (most of the traditions are made by humans), but try to comprehend the spiritual aspects of it.

Also remember that lotsa of Atheist leaders killed millions of believers, but I do not see any flame those people. All those people wanted to cleanse the world of any good, they did not want to believe in God, because they did not want to face God.
They must think that by killing all those who believe in God, they wanted to convince themselves of God non-existance.

Well, thats my 2 cents

-Vishwa

 

[jegHegy]

for a christian, that vemon guy sure is a dick

 

[FRIBBLE]

If christianity is real then why did they need to lie to us about when he was born? the romans collected taxes in september or october something like that but not in december.
In fact xmas day is only on the 25th dec to coincide with the pagan winter solstice as celebrated in europe.In fact christian monks wheedled their way in to celtic religion by making all their celebrations coincide with existing pagan ones so that people woldn't mind.
Then slowly as they gain power they oust the origional and much older one to suit their purpose.
Think I might take up wica or something like that after all it was my countrys religion thousands of years before christ.
Anyone know where I can get some mistletoe and a goat ....or a chicken.........a virgin would be best but I dont believe in miracles .........unless a virgin goat counts double hey I think I'm on to something here!

 

[vishwats]

It is not bible which is wrong, it is us who celebrate DEC 25 as christmas day who is wrong.

There are lotsa studies conducted by people who prove that DEC 25th is not teh day Christ was born.

Christmas came to practice so that it will coincide with the Winter Solistice and people would feel easy to accept, thus attracts more people.

The practice of celebrate chirstmas was started by the same church which killed lotsa other believers in the name of HEresy.

Does that change the existance of God ? or the message of Christ ? it is a pity that some people adultrated the word of God and also call themselves christians.
A christian means - Christ Like, forgiving, Loving , Caring, sacrificing.

Not some one who goes to church twice a week.

As I said before, all these practices make people look bad , not bible.
Bible still is the most accurate word of God

-vishwa

 

[FRIBBLE]

Accurate word of god give me a break! first of all it was written in ancient hebrew which hardly anyone can speak now. Then it was tranlated in to latin an almost equally impossible language and then finally into the old versions of the various modern languages.
This means that what you read has gone through 4 languages and countless revisions to suit the churches policy over the years it cant possibly be accurate.

Have you ever had a cheap vcr? and tried to read the instuctions.And thats done from only one language to another by people with a much higher level of education than the old monks had.

Hey maybe if I run some bible passages through babel fish I could get the true word of god! Or most likely I just get nonsense

 

[tnt]

Accurate word of god give me a break! first of all it was written in ancient hebrew which hardly anyone can speak now. Then it was tranlated in to latin an almost equally impossible language and then finally into the old versions of the various modern languages.
This means that what you read has gone through 4 languages and countless revisions to suit the churches policy over the years it cant possibly be accurate.

Well that's not true. Firstly only the old testament was written in what you refer to as ancient hebrew. From this there were documents found from some hundred years before christ was born (Qumran). And there were no big differences between those found documents and the bible the jews use today. The new testament was written in latin, greek and some local old languages. Ancient latin and greek is still taught in german schools today. The oldest documents of the new testament which were found are dated about 100 AD. So I don't see your VCR argument.

 

[vishwats]

The Awesome thing about bible is that the word of God preserved in-tact. Believe me, if it were just humans, then it is just another book. But you'll be surprised as to know how little it has lost in essence of meaning in-spite of all the transelatations and generations of manuscripting process.

Well yes, it is difficult to comprehend.

Also they did not put the bible through babelfish engine to spit whatever makes sense to a dumb computer. Several scholars who are known for their abilities worked hard for several years, referring various manuscripts/texts/revisions/transelations, then produced this wonderful compilation.

Listen to this, whenever they wrote the name of God, they used a new brush and cleaned it and wrote it. Then they cleaned the brush again. They had that amount of respect and conviction when they transelated. They just did not scribble bunch of stuff that made sense to them.

Linux what it is now, is not just a program, A polished accomplishment of the effort of several individuals who worked day night. People two transelate user manuals do not care as long as it is understandable. They don';t transelate in reverence. As long as babel fish, it is good effort but based on finite number of possibilities.

 

[FRIBBLE]

Is it true that when they found the dead sea scrolls that the found a page of the bible that read



"DEDICATED TO MY DEAREST FLUFFY AND MY BEST FRIEND LUCIFER FOR BRINGING LITE INTO MY LIFE"






ALL CHARACTERS WITHIN THIS WORK ARE FICTIONAL AND ANY RESEMBLENCE TO REAL PERSONS LIVING OR DEAD IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL AND IN NO WAY IMPLIED .


COPYRIGHT JERUSALEM PRESS 250 AD
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No seriously someone explain the lucifer thing to me it strikes me that in the old testament lucifer (light giver in old hebrew) is gods righthand man (highest of the angels) then when he disagrees with his old mate god he suddenly is described as a snake. Fair enough we all have barneys with our mates then over the years it gets exaggerated into the goat hoofed spikey headed baby torturer we know today you have to feel sorry for the dude

 

[count zero]

Atheist

i found this on this site. Sounds interesting.

Since the question "what is an atheist?" frequently comes up, and since there seems to be some confusion, here are a few basic facts.

We sometimes make the mistake of thinking that statements such as "X is a Christian" and "Y is an Atheist" are similar statements. Yes, they are grammatically identical, but logically they are very different (aside from being theologically different).

The "a-" prefix in "atheism" and "atheist" is the negative prefix in Greek, and it means simply "non-," "not." Atheist means, then, "not a theist." And that is ALL it means. (A "theist" is one who has some belief in a deity or deities.)

Therefore, to say "So-and-so is an atheist" is not an affirmative statement, but a negative one. It is like saying "So-and-so does not own a Ford." Or "So-and-so does not eat peanut butter." Or "So-and-so is not a Hindu." From these negative statements it is not justifiable to draw any further conclusions about So-and-so; there is no affirmative information in those statements.

 

[vishwats]

No seriously someone explain the lucifer thing to me it strikes me that in the old testament lucifer (light giver in old hebrew) is gods righthand man (highest of the angels) then when he disagrees with his old mate god he suddenly is described as a snake. Fair enough we all have barneys with our mates then over the years it gets exaggerated into the goat hoofed spikey headed baby torturer we know today you have to feel sorry for the dude

I am really amazed and happy to know that you are very knowledgable when it comes to bible.

God is not a Old Mate, and Satan in-spite of being an Arc-angel was never God.
So you do not revolt against God, if you do you are nothing but cunning, decieving character. What do I call you ? Snake ? or something else ?

Now that you know so much about Bible. Do you also know that Jesus died for all of us. Our sins ? He did many many good things. (They all are historical facts). Isn't it the same God called Satan a snake died for us ?

You spent your energy to find things and prove that bible is contradicting. Put read those passages that will compel us to be better individuals. That guides us to be good. Because you know so much about bible, there are some scriptures of bible which might be dealing with you. But yuo want to firmly believe that Bible is wrong, hence all this.

I pray for you.

Happy New Year to every one here

-vishwa

 

[Axeman]

A "theist" is one who has some belief in a deity or deities

Doesn't that then mean that an Atheist is someone who has no belief in a Deity or Deities then? Just because there is no affirmation, it doesn't render the negative useless...

I.e. doesnt the sentence "I dont like cheese" tell you as much about the person's like/dislike of a certain type of matured dairy-based products as "I dont like cheese, but I do like apples"?

We DO, in ths case, have a typing of the person as "atheist", i.e. as not believing in a God/Gods.

 

[Mofokubik]

I went to a catholic gradeschool for about 9 years, but I think it's safe to say that i'm an atheist now. I don't really want anything to do with that non-sense now. I mean it's the most D&D bullshit, where the hell are the unicorns?! I can sit here and quote David Cross all day but I won't, i'll just say i'm done with the catholic faith. But I got my GP32 when I still believed so I voted yes.

 

[FRIBBLE]

[I am really amazed and happy to know that you are very knowledgable when it comes to bible.

God is not a Old Mate, and Satan in-spite of being an Arc-angel was never God.
So you do not revolt against God, if you do you are nothing but cunning, decieving character. What do I call you ? Snake ? or something else ?

Now that you know so much about Bible. Do you also know that Jesus died for all of us. Our sins ? He did many many good things. (They all are historical facts). Isn't it the same God called Satan a snake died for us ?

You spent your energy to find things and prove that bible is contradicting. Put read those passages that will compel us to be better individuals. That guides us to be good. Because you know so much about bible, there are some scriptures of bible which might be dealing with you. But yuo want to firmly believe that Bible is wrong, hence all this.

I pray for you.

]


Historical facts dont make me laugh! POINT me to one just one PROVABLE concrete piece of evidence and I'll reconsider.There are none.

And if god exists why dosent he come and punish us all. After all church congregations are at an all time low surely now would be a good time for a visitation and have us poor misguided wretches grovelling on our knees. And did you know muslims outnumber christians about 3 to 1?

Or do you not live in the same world as me? Oh and i'm every bit as much anti religion as you are pro christianity.So dont waste your time praying for me as I find it insulting to my personal rite to choose not to be involved in any religion of any kind.

Go and bother god on your own behalf but please leave me out of it.

 

[vishwats]

Fribble,
need not be bitter.
I would have suggested a book called "Evidence that demans a verdict" from Josh McDowell, but anyways, I do bother God always, I mean always.
The problem is, we have this notion that God is a punishing kind, hence it is safer to believe that God does not exist, rather than acknowledge the existance of punishing God. But the God I know is God of love, hence he would not come down and punish us, but however bad we are, we all have a chance to make it alright.

Or do you not live in the same world as me? Oh and i'm every bit as much anti religion as you are pro christianity.So dont waste your time praying for me as I find it insulting to my personal rite to choose not to be involved in any religion of any kind.

Assume that, you are faced with some kind of test or some competition, you post the same on this board. We all reply to it saying "All the best", "Wish you best of luck" so and so forth. So do you consider that insulting to your personal right, because all of us wished you good. Prayer is my way of wishing you good.

Anyways, I end the matter here.

It was very interesting talking to you

-vishwa

 

[FRIBBLE]

Assume that, you are faced with some kind of test or some competition, you post the same on this board. We all reply to it saying "All the best", "Wish you best of luck" so and so forth. So do you consider that insulting to your personal right, because all of us wished you good. Prayer is my way of wishing you good.

No I wouldn't call that insulting at all I'd say it was very nice of you.But anyway all I'm trying to say is that my views are as strong although different to other peoples.
But we are forced to respect peoples religious views but atheists views arent legislated respect by law in the same way.

I wish you all the best in life.And have also enjoyed our theological discussion.Lets agree to disagree I can if you can.

Shit I might even read that book.If the library has it.I wouldn't part with my own money for it though.