DRM wars (Steam, Origin, Starforce, Battle.net, installation limits, etc...)

WizardStan

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Know why these companies keep getting away with things like this?

We know (well at least we figured we knew), that the game key can be used on three systems. That's fair
No, no it is not fair. They gave in on one thing and it came with an unintended (or totally intended, since it's working as designed) consequence.And then

Our key has been pretty much unlocked allowing us to properly work on this article.
No. No second chances. They screwed up, they don't get a proper review. Downvote to oblivion. Stick to your guns. Until Ubisoft and EA and everyone else start behaving send them to the timeout corner, don't review their games, downplay them as much as possible.If you (the collective "you") disagree with a companies policies (as Guru3D seems to) you don't give in to these petty demands. Review sites are doing publishers a favour, they should be very afraid of what these sites are saying. But they aren't, because everyone is eager to accept and forgive and move on just to get the next big shiny from AAA Game Devs. Makes me sick.

*spits on the ground*
 

sswam

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EA Infects Battlefield Hardline with new ghastly DRM

notice the link to this: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/why-guru3d-probably-never-will-review-ubisoft-titles-anymore-anno-2070.html

So, changes of your hardware (like new GPU) are monitored too and block your access, nice.
I think this is overblown.


Yes, they are trying to lock the game to one computer, and perhaps also to prevent cheating,

but the criteria seem reasonable enough.

Your average gamer is not going to try the game with five different video cards in a day!

And they do allow you to try four different video cards if you need to do that.

I think this will not affect normal users when they upgrade their computers at all.

Obviously EA would not like to piss off its users like that.

Ok, so they did not consider guru3d.com's use case, that is a problem affecting him and a very few other people,

but not the whole gaming community. Perhaps he could resolve that issue with EA.

I don't like DRM in general, but this is not some hideous new form of DRM which will end the world as we know it.
 
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sswam

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How about if you play the same game on several computers at home ?  
Yes, that might be a problem, but that's the case with any DRM that looks at the computer's CPU serial numbers, MAC address or whatever.  This new development is not different.

In fact, if they support having 4 different GPUs in one day, one might suppose you can use the game on 4 different computers at home, which is pretty generous.

Again, I don't like DRM at all, especially for media such as movies and TV shows.  Give me DRM-free downloads of a movies and TV shows that I want, and I'll pay generously for them rather than what I normally do.  But I don't see that this DRM is any worse than normal, even though it has annoyed one guy who tests games with different graphics cards.

I buy almost all my games on Humble Store, so I get "the best of both worlds" - I can enjoy the easy updates and extra features on Steam, and I also have the DRM-free version as a backup in case something annoys me with the Steam version.  For example I installed DRM-free FTL the other day, because my son way playing it too, it was syncing with the Steam cloud and it apparently doesn't want to allow separate saves and/or in-game achievements for the two of us.  That's a poor design choice of the FTL developers, more than any intrinsic problem with Steam cloud sync, which on the whole is a useful thing.  The "1 set of achievements per user" on Steam does prevent separate achievements for different family members...  come to think of it they have "family sharing" which might solve that.
 
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Klumpen

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WizardStan

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Regarding Keurig: http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/06/investing/keurig-green-mountain-earnings-stock-fall/index.html

Turns out that people aren't entirely stupid monkeys that'll swallow something with fewer features just because of "brand loyalty".

At least, coffee drinkers are extremely passionate about being able to brew whatever the hell they want when they want how they want. Take that away and sales drop drastically.

Now if only gamers felt the same way. Unfortunately the necessary "DRM" of consoles has trained us to accept restrictions from the very beginning.
 

ekianjo

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Unfortunately the necessary "DRM" of consoles has trained us to accept restrictions from the very beginning.
There's a very live "pirate" scene everywhere in the world since the 80s, though... so that;s a proof that there's a number of people who dont like DRMs in the first place and dont accept the,.  
 

WizardStan

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The number of people that grew up brewing their own coffee: about 100%, and they didn't have to do anything special to do it.

The number of people that grew up pirating console games: probably less than 1%, maybe as high as 10%, and they had to go out of their way to do it.

There's a big difference between taking something away that your entire market has been using their entire life, and continuing to do what you've already done despite the minority working against you.

Besides, I'm not convinced the people pirating are doing so because they're against DRM, I suspect by-and-large it's a lack of money.
 

ekianjo

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The number of people that grew up brewing their own coffee: about 100%, and they didn't have to do anything special to do it.The number of people that grew up pirating console games: probably less than 1%, maybe as high as 10%, and they had to go out of their way to do it.There's a big difference between taking something away that your entire market has been using their entire life, and continuing to do what you've already done despite the minority working against you.Besides, I'm not convinced the people pirating are doing so because they're against DRM, I suspect by-and-large it's a lack of money.
Huh, not all console gamers come from consoles man. And computer guys have been pirating games way more than 10 %. And i even challenge your 10% figure. The nintendo ds scene was rampant with piracy, even in japan which is a country known for low piracy rates. Virtually every kid with a ds i saw out there had a r4 like cartridge.


As for the motivation, i agree money is probably one of them, but dont discount other factors. Anti drm is probably not the main one, but convenience (also linked to the fzct that drm measures are usualy inconvenient for customers) play a big factor too.
 

WizardStan

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Huh, not all console gamers come from consoles man
I'm aware. I was specifically speaking of the console explosion through the 80s and 90s. But it doesn't matter, none of that is the point.The point is that these are not things that have been taken away. You NEVER had the right to use precompiled software where you wanted in whatever way you wanted. Like, yeah, on computers you could write your own games, but again, not talking about those, that's a niche, and you can argue the number of pirates all you want but that doesn't change the fact that they were willfully acting against what they were and were not allowed to do, and having to actually do work to accomplish it, and that's the point. Under normal operation, when playing on a console, you were locked to the games that you could get for that console, period: getting around this required you to buy something extra, do more work. Even on the PC, for most games and most users you get a game, you install the game, you play the game, they don't do anything outside of this normal process. Modern PC DRM is just an attempt at "consolifying" computer games in the same way. They aren't so much "taking away rights" (they are, but I'm playing loose with semantics for the sake of analogy), they're "importing rights" from a platform where those rights were already codified into the platform itself.

This is completely different from the coffee situation where you have ALWAYS had the right to use whatever coffee grinds you wanted in whatever amounts you wanted when you wanted how you wanted. In fact, it was practically a necessity. Keurig streamlined some of that by premeasuring into convenient cups but you still had the choices to brew what you wanted from wherever you wanted. With the DRM introduced in the Keurig 2.0 they removed that right, cut it out completely. This'd be the equivalent of Microsoft releasing a version of Windows that could only run officially sanctioned code, you couldn't even download a compiler and just write your own without paying a license fee. Maybe they eventually hear people complaining and sell a compiler that lets you compile your own code but only for your PC, no one else would be able to run it unless they also owned this compiler and you provided the source. They would argue "oh, this guarantees quality" and they may have an argument there but I guarantee it'd have the lowest sales figures of anything Microsoft has ever produced. Keurig has learned that lesson now.
 

TrashyMG

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Not trying to single anyone out, but I find it funny that many people that complain about DRM issues have no issues using Windows.

Personally I like what Valve has been doing to bring some games to Linux, I would be stuck with playing games exclusively on playstation or using WINE on my older games with varying results. Not saying there is not some downsides to DRM or the steam purchasing model, I just like being able to some of these commercial games on the OS I like using. I have more of an issue giving Microsoft money for crap products then dealing with some intrusive copy protection on commercial software.
 

rygD

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Not trying to single anyone out, but I find it funny that many people that complain about DRM issues have no issues using Windows.

Personally I like what Valve has been doing to bring some games to Linux, I would be stuck with playing games exclusively on playstation or using WINE on my older games with varying results. Not saying there is not some downsides to DRM or the steam purchasing model, I just like being able to some of these commercial games on the OS I like using. I have more of an issue giving Microsoft money for crap products then dealing with some intrusive copy protection on commercial software.
I am with you on most of this, but DRM seems to be turning into more of a problem. It hasn't completely crippled any games that I have yet, but it does result in me being more reluctant to buy games. As it becomes the way all commercial games are "protected" results vary in how long you will be able to play the games you "own". Yes, I know you don't technically own the games you buy a copy of, but it could become more of a rental, and I can imagine this becoming more of a problem where you have to pay a subscription fee on top of the purchase of the game. For MMOs that might be somewhat acceptable (but I never liked that either), however a single player game with that monthly fee is unacceptable to me.

I started to go on about a bunch of other potential problems, but I was getting a little out there. Yes, I am glad I have the option of recent commercial games on Linux. I just think DRM is already a problem, and it could get much worse.

I do have a lot of gripes about many Microsoft products, and, along with not paying for them, I attempt to avoid them for any personal use. I personally feel that Microsoft has been a much more negative influence on computing (and gaming) than DRM up to this point, and even they have decided to step up their game on controlling and screwing over their customers.
 
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thatgui

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Not trying to single anyone out, but I find it funny that many people that complain about DRM issues have no issues using Windows.
I find it troubling that you seem to have deep rooting issues with windows. But leaving that aside what on *superhumanbeeingofyourchoice* green earth gave you the idea, that this comparison makes any sense at all ?
 

rygD

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DRM is nothing compared to the shit Microsoft has been pulling for a long time. I think @TrashyMG was pretty clear: it makes no sense to complain about DRM if you are using Windows, which is much worse.

What is really troubling to me is that people don't see the problems of Windows and other MS products. For me some of the important ones fall into the ethical category (which is an odd thing for me to say...I must be getting soft). I see a few other issues, and could probably find some that fall into more serious categories, because I guess there isn't anything illegal about selling people shoddy, incomplete products that take advantage of the customer and their lack of knowledge.

Wait a minute...this topic is about ethics, so even my problems with Microsoft products would be a valid comparison, especially if discussing playing DRM-free games on Windows.

I think I got lost on my way to Absurdism Corner. Sorry, everyone.
 
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