DRM wars (Steam, Origin, Starforce, Battle.net, installation limits, etc...)

TrashyMG

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Well to be fair there hasn't been an error code 37 issue on Diablo III since launch in 2012..
 

F_Slim

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Several of the last games I bought were major disappointments due to bugs or lack of support for anything a PC-Gamer would use (like a normal Gamepad instead of an XBox Controler) because it was obviously developed for consoles and only made to run on a PC afterwards. I did not have too many DRM problems, although it made me not buy certain games. The latest SimCity for example, I really wanted to have that game but then decided not to buy it after I've read about the problems the "online-ony" system has. So I decided to just live without it (so I am not sure if DRM increases piracy, I just decide it's not worth it and forget about it).

Something that bothers me a lot more is the new trend to rip people off with DLCs. You already pay a lot of money for a game, and then you are supposed to pay more and more to get certain features (some of which should have been there right from the start). "Free to play, pay to win" is the next level of this (but at least it gives you a chance to try the game before spending money on a buggy piece of disappointment).

So yes, I had more bad than good experiences with the last new games I bought/tried/considered to buy, but DRM is ony one of many things that are wrong with the gaming industry.

I am happy to pay for a good product or even just for good service ... looks like my money will not go into new games ...
 
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Klumpen

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Several of the last games I bought were major disappointments due to bugs or lack of support for anything a PC-Gamer would use (like a normal Gamepad instead of an XBox Controler) because it was obviously developed for consoles and only made to run on a PC afterwards. I did not have too many DRM problems, although it made me not buy certain games. The latest SimCity for example, I really wanted to have that game but then decided not to buy it after I've read about the problems the "online-ony" system has. So I decided to just live without it (so I am not sure if DRM increases piracy, I just decide it's not worth it and forget about it).


Something that bothers me a lot more is the new trend to rip people off with DLCs. You already pay a lot of money for a game, and then you are supposed to pay more and more to get certain features (some of which should have been there right from the start). "Free to play, pay to win" is the next level of this (but at least it gives you a chance to try the game before spending money on a buggy piece of disappointment).


So yes, I had more bad than good experiences with the last new games I bought/tried/considered to buy, but DRM is ony one of many things that are wrong with the gaming industry.


I am happy to pay for a good product or even just for good service ... looks like my money will not go into new games ...
Looks like you read this thread:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/six_pests_of_modern_gaming
 

ElPoco

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I've recently experienced DRM related problems for the first time. I've had annoyances before (having to have an active internet connection or the game disc in the tray), but until that time I've never been unable to play a game because of DRM.

Took me a few hours over some days to finally get the thing to work, while thinking "If I had pirated that game I would be playing it right now". That was awful.
 

Klumpen

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I've recently experienced DRM related problems for the first time. I've had annoyances before (having to have an active internet connection or the game disc in the tray), but until that time I've never been unable to play a game because of DRM.

Took me a few hours over some days to finally get the thing to work, while thinking "If I had pirated that game I would be playing it right now". That was awful.
Which game was it?

I always refused online activations,

but I had DRM related problems before with the first original version of "Warcraft 3" and "Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines", the first one crashed after a few seconds before cracked and the other one didn't want to start without crack when there was some virtual CD-Drive installed or was installed before on the system.

That's why often the DRM is removed with a later patch of a game.

Risen 2 is DRM-free too now btw. and avalailabel at GoG.
 
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ElPoco

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It's Alice: Madness Returns. 

First I had trouble with the Stardock release date check not working (it ran and then nothing happened), then it was with EA activation (it told me to reinstall the game). 
 

_jr_

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I never managed to get a working stardock account while trying to update DemiGod, probably because I was using wine on linux.


I actively avoid games using DRM but sometimes some slip through (even after asking the shop assistent about it). Since I'm to lazy and curious to bring them back I usually try and was pleasantly surprised to find the activation over telephone scheme used by some games to be much less annoying than having to put the disc into the drive. Haven't run out of the allowed reactivation count yet, probably will be majorly annoyed then. The online activation of Bioshocj or Mirror's Edge were painless, but I hated having to give internet access to my gaming system just for activation. Steam's terms and conditions remain unacceptable (I cannot understand how anyone could agree to them after actually reading them; why regulate reselling, why do they need far reaching rights on user generated content without compensation, spying on users for the 'enjoyment of the platform', sharing user data with 3rd parties).


Right now I'm primarily using HumbleBundle and GOG. I especially like Humble's detailed money distribution feature. It gives me some perverse satisfaction allocating 0$ to the steam only titles, even though I know that it won't make a difference :)


edit: actually I'm spending most of my limited gaming time with freely redistributable games (mostly libre/OSS)
 
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WizardStan

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why do they need far reaching rights on user generated content without compensation,
Because without it you could sue them for hosting the images you upload. Copyright infringement.You would think that it would be obvious that if you upload something to be shared you're giving them explicit permission to share that thing, but you'd be wrong. Lawyers don't care about what's obvious, only what is legally binding. The TOS gives them license to retransmit the images and content you upload to other users that request it. It's actually a pretty standard clause for web sites that feature user generated content. The wording may be different but it always has the same purpose and result.
 

levi

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Driver: San Fran annoyed me that to get access to Director mode I needed to sign up to Live and register the game. It's a Driver game - Director mode should be included from the start! Not that it breaks the game not to have it, but it's pretty much the only thing that related D:SF back to the first game in the series.


Fabulous game, by the way, just not really a Driver game.
 

_jr_

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why do they need far reaching rights on user generated content without compensation,
Because without it you could sue them for hosting the images you upload. Copyright infringement.
You would think that it would be obvious that if you upload something to be shared you're giving them explicit permission to share that thing, but you'd be wrong. Lawyers don't care about what's obvious, only what is legally binding. The TOS gives them license to retransmit the images and content you upload to other users that request it. It's actually a pretty standard clause for web sites that feature user generated content. The wording may be different but it always has the same purpose and result.
I understand that, but that it is why i said 'far reaching' . The TOS grants them much more than that. You are probably right that their lawyers were thinking about this usecase, but that is not really an excuse to be lazy and force users into such all encompassing terms. It would be possible and not too much work (for the large organization that they are) to restrict their rights (mostly) to just the usecase you described (and update them whenever neccessary). In the current form especially the indemnification clause is just unacceptable, it isn't even limiting the amount of damage the user is accountable for independent of the actions of steam that might actually have increased the damage done. Such a limit could be added trivially (it is standard in pretty much every contract).


It's obviously their right to make their terms any way they want and it's the users right to accept them.


I just think it should be pointed out that they are not even close to fair and it could be done significantly better without much work on their side. Unfortunately there is no real competition here (e.g. X-Box live is similar) and the law (at least in Germany) will take another couple of decades to catch up and provide end user protection similar to the 'old' media based distribution systems (it especially annoys me that steam based games are actually redistributed on physical media without - at least according to german rulings - any of the legal benefits usually coming with that, but that is another story and not related to steam's terms).


And (before someone misunderstands) this is only about the platform's terms, I'm not arguing games or services should be free and I'm not (totally) opposed to DRM as long as it's optional (in the sense that I can opt out of it and still use unencumbered software on my system; that there is unecumbered software in the first place is my own responsibility).
 

Björn

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Oh, i hate steam. So many interesting games that i can't play, because they are only distributed over this "pay for the game to play it a while, and we will rob it from you when we feel like it" download store. The problem with every modern platform is, that they have an app-store monopoly (IOS, Android, PC). They can get away with everything.


Not to mention the whole spying thing.


And now there bringing the Client to Linux. I'm using Linux, because i don't want closed source spyware from big companies. So if the client isn't open source, why should anyone bother migrating to Linux?


Sadly, most gamers have accepted Steam.
 

Klumpen

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Oh, i hate steam. So many interesting games that i can't play, because they are only distributed over this "pay for the game to play it a while, and we will rob it from you when we feel like it" download store. The problem with every modern platform is, that they have an app-store monopoly (IOS, Android, PC). They can get away with everything.


Not to mention the whole spying thing.


And now there bringing the Client to Linux. I'm using Linux, because i don't want closed source spyware from big companies. So if the client isn't open source, why should anyone bother migrating to Linux?


Sadly, most gamers have accepted Steam.
Same here, that's why I am so happy about the HumbleIndieBundles DRM free Linux ports and that GoG.com finally wants to go the Linux way too after months of heavy ranting from their Linux using customers. :D
 
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WizardStan

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So many interesting games that i can't play
This argument really pisses me off.Hundreds of games available through GoG and Humble Bundle, thousands of cheap and free indie games released every year, but that's not good enough, you need to complain about those few on a platform you don't like. You do major disservice to the producers of the DRM free games when you say this.

I boycott EA. I avoid them as much as possible and to the best of my knowledge haven't given them any of my money in years.

"Oh, but when you boycott an entire company, think about all the games you're missing out on!" I've had people tell me. No, I don't think I will. I'll think about all the other games that I now have that little bit of extra time for, games from companies that are more in line with my beliefs, games that can be just as much fun as anything produced by EA.
 

Björn

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So many interesting games that i can't play
This argument really pisses me off.Hundreds of games available through GoG and Humble Bundle, thousands of cheap and free indie games released every year, but that's not good enough, you need to complain about those few on a platform you don't like. You do major disservice to the producers of the DRM free games when you say this.I boycott EA. I avoid them as much as possible and to the best of my knowledge haven't given them any of my money in years."Oh, but when you boycott an entire company, think about all the games you're missing out on!" I've had people tell me. No, I don't think I will. I'll think about all the other games that I now have that little bit of extra time for, games from companies that are more in line with my beliefs, games that can be just as much fun as anything produced by EA.
Sorry, didn't mean to piss anyone off with my post^^. I think that i have to point out that i'm not talking about those tasteless games from big companies like EA, i'm talking about indie games. And it's just unfortunate, that we don't get to enjoy these. And that there are many other DRM free games doesn't help that fact.
 

Askarus

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Oh, i hate steam. So many interesting games that i can't play, because they are only distributed over this "pay for the game to play it a while, and we will rob it from you when we feel like it" download store. The problem with every modern platform is, that they have an app-store monopoly (IOS, Android, PC). They can get away with everything.


Not to mention the whole spying thing.


And now there bringing the Client to Linux. I'm using Linux, because i don't want closed source spyware from big companies. So if the client isn't open source, why should anyone bother migrating to Linux?


Sadly, most gamers have accepted Steam.
Honestly I do buy some, at lest the ones from the Humble Bundle Steam only games.

When I'll have some spare time I'll look for no-Steam required hacks and store them locally.

Don't know (and care) if it's legal or not but I did pay the full price for these games so I won't feel guilty if I'll do so.
 

WizardStan

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i'm not talking about those tasteless games from big companies like EA, i'm talking about indie games.
That doesn't make any difference. There are tens of thousands of games released every year entirely DRM free. If an indie chooses to only release on Steam, that's their prerogative and you shouldn't lament that. Move on. By focusing on (even the little indie) games that you won't play and wishing you could you are implying that those games are somehow worth more (or at least worth more attention) than the thousands of games that are released DRM free.Telling people "I wish I could play game X but it is on Steam" accomplishes nothing except maybe getting people to wish you'd shut up already. Telling people "check out this awesome indie game that is conveniently DRM free" helps everyone and hurts no one.
 

TrashyMG

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And now there bringing the Client to Linux. I'm using Linux, because i don't want closed source spyware from big companies. So if the client isn't open source, why should anyone bother migrating to Linux?
It's already on Linux and it's awesome. Pretty much all of Valve's back catalog has been ported to native Linux. I enjoy playing Portal 2 in an OS I love. 

Honestly people get too worked up over the religion of DRM free, I could care less if Steam knows I what I play or that I haven't upgraded my desktop in 6 years.
 
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