Dosbox Fun

[WizardStan]

mmmm, handheld Albion.
That is a project I'd love to get ahold of

 

[Shadowcat]

M-HT a developer on these boards has actually created a static recompiler that can recompile x86 to arm. Theres also some wrapper code that handles system calls using SDL.
Hey, I thought it was quite cozy under that rock. That's news worth emerging for, though Very nice indeed, M-HT!

 

[Alex777]

What's this about recompiled X-coms? Isn't it like closed source and still being sold?

Do you live under a rock?

M-HT a developer on these boards has actually created a static recompiler that can recompile x86 to arm. Theres also some wrapper code that handles system calls using SDL. Its has some limitations on the type of games it can be targeted at. The recompiler also needs some manual input at times. But basically you end up with a arm binary that performs like the original x86.
This process has worked on albion, xcom 1/2, and warcraft. All are playable on the gp2x and wiz handhelds. Ive spoken to M-HT about the pandora and he plans to support them once he gets the hardware.

Edit. Just to add you still need to own the original data files. The only thing that is distributed is the binary executables.

This "news" is no less than celebration-worthy!

 

[roelandb]

What's this about recompiled X-coms? Isn't it like closed source and still being sold?

Do you live under a rock?

M-HT a developer on these boards has actually created a static recompiler that can recompile x86 to arm. Theres also some wrapper code that handles system calls using SDL. Its has some limitations on the type of games it can be targeted at. The recompiler also needs some manual input at times. But basically you end up with a arm binary that performs like the original x86.
This process has worked on albion, xcom 1/2, and warcraft. All are playable on the gp2x and wiz handhelds. Ive spoken to M-HT about the pandora and he plans to support them once he gets the hardware.

Edit. Just to add you still need to own the original data files. The only thing that is distributed is the binary executables.

This "news" is no less than celebration-worthy!

I hope when i get my pandora i will be able to try this out, i hope the performance of this recompiled programs will be as good as the original (that would be awesome but its doubtfull)

 

[Pickle]

They perfect on the gp2x and wiz, so why wouldn't they run fine on the pandora? (They actually may run too fast)

 

[WizardStan]

Just curious for more information on this recompiler. Can we give it entirely arbitrary executables and expect any sort of success (even if it's a low chance) or was it tooled specifically toward this set of games and there's no chance it will work for others?
If the former, how do we get ahold of this converter so we can test it out for ourselves?

 

[Pickle]

or was it tooled specifically toward this set of games and there's no chance it will work for others?
If the former, how do we get ahold of this converter so we can test it out for ourselves?

Ask M-HT for the source, like I said it only works for certain types of games with a certain memory mode. There another thread where he talks about it. You probably should know arm,x86,dos,sdl programming if you were to attempt to use it.
Ive only used the arm and c source to recompile versions for the wiz.

 

[WizardStan]

DosBox Wii: ran pretty good, I'd say around 6000 cycles max, right up until I started using the mouse. It uses the Wiimote pointer as a mouse pointer, so I don't know if it was extra processing required by the wii for that, or if it's some kind of mouse blitting thing, but suddenly those same cycles just weren't enough. Or too many. Or however it work. It was really choppy.
Anywho, the point was to test DosBox against another sub Ghz processor to see how the cycles stacked up. It stacks up well.

 

[rabidpoobear]

Anywho, the point was to test DosBox against another sub Ghz processor to see how the cycles stacked up. It stacks up well.

*cue 25 posts on how you can't compare clock speeds*

 

[Awakening]

Do you live under a rock?

While I have been aware of the GP2X since before it was released I never owned one so I have very little knowledge of what's been released for it. I also have no clue on how a static recompiler works. Does it only work on Warcraft 1? It's not really a very good game, I much rather play WC2.

I suspected that it was only some sort of exe replacement, original game required

 

[WizardStan]

*cue 25 posts on how you can't compare clock speeds*

Sure you can, just not with definitive accuracy. Ballpark figures, mate. It's not unreasonable to say that any modern CPU at 2ghz can execute more instructions than one at 1ghz, even across architectures, within certain constraints. What those exact instructions are and just how many more of them can be executed is where the problem comparisons comes from. It's quite easy to compare apples to oranges if you pick the right points to compare against
That's what I was trying to get at: the Wii at about 900 Mhz is in the same ballpark as the Pandora when compared to a modern x86.

 

[Monk]

That's what I was trying to get at: the Wii at about 900 Mhz is in the same ballpark as the Pandora when compared to a modern x86.

Is that with the Wii, the Pandora, or both overclocked compared to the clock speed the retail unit is (to be) supplied at? I.E. is the Wii comparable in speed to the Pandora for running DOSBox based games, or is the Wii comparable in speed to an overclocked Pandora (and so forth)?

 

[rabidpoobear]

That's what I was trying to get at: the Wii at about 900 Mhz is in the same ballpark as the Pandora when compared to a modern x86.

Is that with the Wii, the Pandora, or both overclocked compared to the clock speed the retail unit is (to be) supplied at? I.E. is the Wii comparable in speed to the Pandora for running DOSBox based games, or is the Wii comparable in speed to an overclocked Pandora (and so forth"]?[/quote]You could probably get a rough idea by checking out the dhrystone MIPS of the Wii compared to the Pandora, but that would be not completely accurate.
He said that it ran at 6000 cycles on the Wii, though, and I think Pickle mentioned how many cycles Pandora got when it was overclocked a few posts back in the thread. That's probably a good comparison of Pandora vs. Wii performance of Dos Box, but the Pandora version may be slightly sped up on release (though Pickle doesn't think it'll be much IIRC)

 

[WizardStan]

Just double checked to confirm: there's no dynarec for the Wii DosBox. Once that's functioning on the Pandora, it should leapfrog in performance, I would hope.

 

[nothin/xoen]

are you sure it is topic for general subforum?

it seems to be isolated dev topic, imo..(i see no communication with potential enduser).

thank you.

 

[Monk]

.

thank you.

As an enduser, I feel communciated with and I'm very happy for this to be in general. I suspect several of us here to be end users and, to be honest, I'm having a blast installing old games in DOSBox on a desktop PC to see whether each seems a likely candidate for Pandora usage. While the cycles DOSBox is capable of hoevers around 2000-3000, it would seem to me that very few of the games which I actually have (and can find) will be emulateable to a degree tha tI would enjoy.

Although - we seem to be getting closer at times. Perhaps some tweaks here and there might help

Thank you.

 

[rabidpoobear]

Just double checked to confirm: there's no dynarec for the Wii DosBox. Once that's functioning on the Pandora, it should leapfrog in performance, I would hope.

Is there some dynarec for DOSBox on any ARM systems? The way you stated this it sounds like it's something trivial but I didn't think DosBox had any dynarec at all currently... is that wrong?

 

[Pickle]

Just double checked to confirm: there's no dynarec for the Wii DosBox. Once that's functioning on the Pandora, it should leapfrog in performance, I would hope.

Is there some dynarec for DOSBox on any ARM systems? The way you stated this it sounds like it's something trivial but I didn't think DosBox had any dynarec at all currently... is that wrong?

Dynarec is working on the pandora, although im using the cvs which doesnt have the latest tweaks and updates for the ARM dynarec.
The same dynarec is used in the gp2x and wiz versions.
Its worth noting that the C Dynarec is not a full dynamic core. (I think its only memory related operations?) Its meant to be portable across many systems. By writing a backend any arch can use it. For example the MIPS arch the PSP runs on uses it.
If PPC arch was completed the Wii could use it and I would then expect it would outperform the pandora.

 

[Monk]

Just double checked to confirm: there's no dynarec for the Wii DosBox. Once that's functioning on the Pandora, it should leapfrog in performance, I would hope.

Dynarec is working on the pandora, although im using the cvs which doesnt have the latest tweaks and updates for the ARM dynarec.
The same dynarec is used in the gp2x and wiz versions.

It seems to me that Pickle keeps trying to tell us tha tDOSBox isn't going to go lots faster on the Pandora than it already is. We can make the Pandora itself go faster (by overclocking, for example) but DOSBox itself doesn't have any magic speed boosts about to happen at the flick of a switch. There may be (probably are?) tweaks that could be done, but the speed of DOSBox IS pretty much the speed of DOSBox. That it seems much slower than many of us hoped or expected is sad (especially for me because some of my all-time favourite games are DOS based) but, well, there you have it.

Now, if Wii is already ahead of Pandora (with both at native clock speeds) then the Wii had room for a significant speed boost if Dynarec isn't already part of Wiibox, but that will just make it faster still than the Pandora

 

[nothin/xoen]

QUOTE
I'm having a blast installing old games in DOSBox on a desktop PC to see whether each seems a likely candidate for Pandora

it seems you dont have idea about arm devices and x86 emulation, while comparing pc dosbox and POTENTIAL REAL pandora performance.

QUOTE
While the cycles DOSBox is capable of hoevers around 2000-3000

you are blind dude, wake UP. cycles ARE NOT EVERYTHING.
i am trying to get any REAL info and i am ignored so far... you know, maybe 345 $ is not much for ya, i won't buy it without real support and REAL info.

sry for being not nice(maybe), i am not enemy of project.
just show me something REAL to make me customer of pandora, geez.
i won't bother you anymore, guys, good luck, again.