Devuan, anyone?

[FaeMinx]

until everboy is just pissed off.

Now that *is* a sexist typo.


Shame on you!

 

[myNewUsername]

True. The original post was better worded - I forgot that. It did deteroriate fairly quickly, though.

The mood in this forum has changed notably over the summer, and a lot of threads have "deteriorated" fast - Especially those starter by new users. whats going on? vacation is over and we all hate our jobs?

On topic:

I have no doubt systemD will be the main init system on servers and desktops soon enough (if it isn't already?), and it is creeping to embedded distros as well. It can be enabled in Yocto project. One good reason NOT use Devuan is keeping up with the technology. An "immature" codebase that is used by so many distros, is open source and controversial will have many eyes looking for flaws so it will improve and mature.

Also, the slow booting that has been a linux thing for as long as i remember has really bugged me, so thank you SystemD =)

 

[Kev2442]

Did you say "slow booting" ? Damn, I suppose it comes after a long time. Everytime I booted a distro "for testing before switching (which never really happened)", I've been impressed by the loading speed. Or maybe it is because I'm comparing it to Windows 7 ? ^^

 

[WizardStan]

vacation is over and we all hate our jobs?

Well yes.
In my defense, I was actually looking forward to something new, right up until tkm625 fired back with that unfounded "guess I care about security and privacy too much" BS. I thought I made a bit of a joke calling him out on it to try and keep it light but I guess I did a poor job at that. Sorry.

edit: which is to say I think there's merit in what he wants to do and that knowledge can be gained in the discussion that would be involved and I'm kind of sad he got so defensive

 

[myNewUsername]

Did you say "slow booting" ? Damn, I suppose it comes after a long time. Everytime I booted a distro "for testing before switching (which never really happened)", I've been impressed by the loading speed. Or maybe it is because I'm comparing it to Windows 7 ? ^^

  

Yup that is my subjective experience. Last when i dualbooted windows 8 and ubuntu on laptop. I dont remember the timings. I know at least ubuntu focused on getting down the boot speed some years ago.

vacation is over and we all hate our jobs?

Well yes. In my defense, I was actually looking forward to something new, right up until tkm625 fired back with that unfounded "guess I care about security and privacy too much" BS. I thought I made a bit of a joke calling him out on it to try and keep it light but I guess I did a poor job at that. Sorry.edit: which is to say I think there's merit in what he wants to do and that knowledge can be gained in the discussion that would be involved and I'm kind of sad he got so defensive

-"Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity." <- this could be a forum rule, and now sorry in advance for any insults i just made. It is a rule that has stuck with me.

 

[ghostpatch]

[..] everboy is just pissed off.

Now that *is* a sexist typo. Shame on you!

upsi, silly me

going to sit in the corner for a while.... 

 

[Klumpen]

Does anyone know, if there is an updated version of this chart around?

http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/44218-linuxdistrotimeline-7.2.png

This has gotten out of hand so long ago...

 

[LEOXD]

Yes. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

 

[FaeMinx]

Yes. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

Holy....


... Okay, I found SL4P, and Angstrom, but where is SuperZaxxon?

 

[LEOXD]

The guy who made this thing has – understandably – stopped updating in 2012. And until then probably nobody told him that SZ exists. 

 

[Klumpen]

The guy who made this thing has – understandably – stopped updating in 2012. And until then probably nobody told him that SZ exists. 

or Devuan or SteamOS

 

[Luke-Jr]

Devuan would be my second choice (after Gentoo).

 

[Linux-SWAT]

I went back to sysinit on the Pyra Debian OS.

In fact systemd is not THAT faster than normal boot system, at least with a fast drive, so I see no reason using it as it's only an annoyance.

I'll probably build a Devuan rootfs for Pyra along all other.

 

[Neelix]

What was annoying about it?  (How did it affect your usage of the system?)

-Neelix

 

[TrashyMG]

Apparently new/unfamiliar = annoying..

 

[Linux-SWAT]

For example, boot message and dmesg are polluted by useless things spamming over and over.

We had a case at the GamesCom where we had to check the device name as we realized that automount didn't work. Dmesg stack was a joke.

Talk about an evolution...

I've tested OpenRC on Slackware and felt far more comfortable with it because it's cleaner. Enabling services is easy and it's script-based.

But still I'm not using it on production machines. Why should I when everything is working fine ?

Frankly, why should I like something that I dislike ?

Why should I be forced to use something that I don't need ?

 

[rygD]

Why should I when everything is working fine ?

Frankly, why should I like something that I dislike ?

Why should I be forced to use something that I don't need ?

Because everyone else is.  How dare we have preferences for something that works fine for us when there is something "new and improved" that has been so widely adopted!  We should be using Windows 10 instead of Linux anyway.

 

[Neelix]

Frankly, why should I like something that I dislike ? Why should I be forced to use something that I don't need ?

I never suggested you should.   I've no experience with systemd at all,  so have nothing to base an opinion on other than hearsay.   Most of the arguments I've heard against it however were things that ultimately don't make a lot of difference to the end user. (or they don't have to)  You're the first person criticising it that I've come across whose argument wasn't just that they disliked it on principle. (for any number of ultimately inconsequential reasons)  You implied that you've tried it, but didn't like it, hence my wondering why.      Thanks for your answer.

-Neelix

 

[slaeshjag]

systemd is all so sligthly different. dmesg has always required some shell filtering for me, because I always got some dodgy device connected that spams debug output to dmesg regardless of systemd.

The only major annoyance I've had with systemd is that it throws me into an emergency shell whenever it can't mount a disk under boot, without telling me why. It used to just hang systemd completely, but that changed in an update. For what it's worth, sysvinit would just happily continue booting the system with the disk unmounted.

 

[txus]

My dmesg on Arch is just as clean (or dirty) as before, and on top of that, the systemd journal and journalctl (since we are talking about logs) are very useful tools with lots of options for filtering.


My contribution to this discussion: I was skeptical too, and my first encounters with systemd where far from "smooth sailing", but after a few weeks I learned (read: "really embraced the fact") that it was just DIFFERENT from what I used before and got to use it comfortably. And even more weeks later, after using it comfortably for a while, I realised how much it actually HELPED me, simplifying system management tasks and providing consistency, even across distributions (!!!). No, it's not an "easy" (?) to follow set of scripts that you can edit just like that, it's more complex, but also more capable.


My advice: read the man pages of systemctl and journalctl, use it for at least several weeks, and be open to the fact that it is different and you won't be using the same commands you have learned to the point they are almost in muscle memory. THEN decide whether it's good or not, and whether you like it or not.